Pelicans looking to get a top 5 pick?

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

My guess is Pierre and cash to the Heat for late round first. Then trade that 1st along with Ryan Anderson to Boston for Jeff Green. Matching salaries so we could still get PJ Tucker with MLE right? Here is a rumor about the Celtics having a deal in place to trade Green with a mystery team:

http://fansided.com/2014/06/23/nba-r...-green/#!3qSJQ



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The other day i made a poll asking if you would do ryno and a 1st for green and everyone said i was nuts.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

My guess is Pierre and cash to the Heat for late round first. Then trade that 1st along with Ryan Anderson to Boston for Jeff Green. Matching salaries so we could still get PJ Tucker with MLE right? Here is a rumor about the Celtics having a deal in place to trade Green with a mystery team:

http://fansided.com/2014/06/23/nba-r...-green/#!3qSJQ



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Personally, I would not give up Anderson and a #1 for Green.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

The other day i made a poll asking if you would do ryno and a 1st for green and everyone said i was nuts.

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Yeah i have seen a lot of people on here think Green is a terrible defender. Don't know where they got that assumption. Celtic press always touts him as an above average defender.


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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

The other day i made a poll asking if you would do ryno and a 1st for green and everyone said i was nuts.

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I'm not sure I'd do the deal.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Personally, I would not give up Anderson and a #1 for Green.

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I pray Dell wouldn't either.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wAbuiLmfhDo

He can give us a 3 and D that can also finish at the rim, dude is strong, look at those posterizers

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Originally Posted by PelsFan2313

I pray Dell wouldn't either.

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So you would rather have Ryno, who only plays one position..the same position of the face of our franchise...more than someone who can play SF and the stretch 4 with better defense and at the same price?


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Ryno in a vacuum is a better player than Green. Adding a first round pick, which would require an expenditure of additional assets, would just add insult to injury.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

Yeah i have seen a lot of people on here think Green is a terrible defender. Don't know where they got that assumption. Celtic press always touts him as an above average defender.


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Really?

http://www.celticshub.com/2013/11/21...-poor-defense/

Jeff Green has had a PER of exactly 15.0 (league average) once. And that was his career high. Career 34% 3-pt shooter and was 34% last year. Steals, assists, and blocks basically non existent. Meanwhile, Ryno hasn't had a PER under 18 since his rookie year and crushes him in TS% and eFG%. Just crushes him.

But yeah, sign me up for adding a 1st round pick and an extra million per year for that guy over Ryno!

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Really?

http://www.celticshub.com/2013/11/21...-poor-defense/

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If you read the end, he is basing that article after the first 12 games last season. A season where he was asked to be the main scorer on a team still trying to find themselves? I'll admit he will have to learn to play without the ball in his hands. I seriously doubt consistency would e an issue because he wouldn't have as much asked of him as in Boston( especially last year).


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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Jeff Green has had a PER of exactly 15.0 (league average) once. And that was his career high. Career 34% 3-pt shooter and was 34% last year. Steals, assists, and blocks basically non existent. Meanwhile, Ryno hasn't had a PER under 18 since his rookie year and crushes him in TS% and eFG%. Just crushes him.

But yeah, sign me up for adding a 1st round pick and an extra million per year for that guy over Ryno!

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Do you think the celtics would do green for Ryno straight up?

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Jeff Green has had a PER of exactly 15.0 (league average) once. And that was his career high. Career 34% 3-pt shooter and was 34% last year. Steals, assists, and blocks basically non existent. Meanwhile, Ryno hasn't had a PER under 18 since his rookie year and crushes him in TS% and eFG%. Just crushes him.

But yeah, sign me up for adding a 1st round pick and an extra million per year for that guy over Ryno!

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Well when you are basically the only three point shooter on the starting roster, the FG attempts go up. Come on man. I know you're not obtuse. Think outside the box before using formulas based on FG attempts . We will not be asking him to light it up. Just know his role, play respectable D, and stretch the floor.


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And herein lies the age old argument of 'change of scenery and role will change the players' efficiency'.

It happens once in a while, but 9 times out of 10, a guy is who he is. Detroit fans sold themselves on Brandon Jennings last year, saying that having big men will make the game easier for him and he won't chuck as much. That lasted about a week, and then he went right back to being who he always was.

You can bet on the guy who has played in the league for 7 years doing something he has never done before (be efficient and effective in numerous categories), but I will bet on the player who has actually been effective and efficient over the last 3-4 years, and not have to hope that he will become somebody he hasn't been yet. Just the smarter, safer bet IMO.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Do you think the celtics would do green for Ryno straight up?

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No clue what timeline they are. I think the better question is: If you polled the other 28 GM's about who was the better player, how many would say Ryno? I would guess a minimum of 24 would choose Ryno. But we can never know.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

Well when you are basically the only three point shooter on the starting roster, the FG attempts go up. Come on man. I know you're not obtuse. Think outside the box before using formulas based on FG attempts in


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When stats work in peoples favor they tout them, when they don't, then stats are meaningless.

Okay, I will play this game. Then what should we use? By what measure, other than your opinion, can any objective person look at anything with these two players and come to the conclusion that Green is better?

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Originally Posted by PelsFan2313

Ryno in a vacuum is a better player than Green. Adding a first round pick, which would require an expenditure of additional assets, would just add insult to injury.

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Now you're talking like an accountant.

When is it ok to use PER on this forum? I throw it around all the time like beads at Mardi Gras and every time people tell me PER is pointless. Those same people tell me they went to MIT, and left early to work in the Bush and Obama cabinets ( when not to busy pulling down Emmys and Nobel prizes).

Trading Ryno for Jeff Green. That has to be the most assanine trade ever proposed. No way!!!!. Unless we can get Parker or Wiggins no way do I want a top 5 pick. Embiid's injuries scare me. We have had enough injury problems.

Here's an article about Jeff Green once Rondo came back from Injury:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2014/3/10...ing-jeff-green


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Originally Posted by ILLHornetsFan

Trading Ryno for Jeff Green. That has to be the most assanine trade ever proposed. No way!!!!. Unless we can get Parker or Wiggins no way do I want a top 5 pick. Embiid's injuries scare me. We have had enough injury problems.

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People keep echoing that statement but only MM has provided a reason why he feels that way. If you don't explain yourself, you are just a parrot.


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I have no idea who Jeff Green is these days, ever since his heart problem I have kind of not wanted him on our team out of fear he would die on us or something. Besides we already have enough people on the payroll with heart problems.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

Here's an article about Jeff Green once Rondo came back from Injury:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2014/3/10...ing-jeff-green


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Cute article. Now, here's the stats:

With Rondo on the court Jeff Green did the following per NBA Stats media tool:

Shot 40.1% from the field and 30.2% from three in 809 minutes. Averaged one assist every 21 minutes and 1 steal every 43

So......

What kind of numbers are you looking for from a sf/stretch 4?

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

When stats work in peoples favor they tout them, when they don't, then stats are meaningless.

Okay, I will play this game. Then what should we use? By what measure, other than your opinion, can any objective person look at anything with these two players and come to the conclusion that Green is better?

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Well you could start by looking at his 2012- 2013 Statistics from basketball reference. See how much better he was with a supporting cast.

I am by no means saying Jeff Green is a more efficient player than Anderson. I think he is more versatile than Anderson which i think will help Monty with his lineup selection. I think we'll still get good production from Smith backing up Davis.


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http://www.nola.com/pelicans/index.s...ch_mon_26.html

Sounds go sending Gordon and Jackson to Chicago for their two picks.

Kings want Jrue Holiday for the 8th pick, pshhhh please.

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Originally Posted by smcgull

http://www.nola.com/pelicans/index.s...ch_mon_26.html

Sounds go sending Gordon and Jackson to Chicago for their two picks.

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I would run down the street naked if this happened. We'd have 2 first round picks and enough cap to go after monroe, parsons or hayward. Winning.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I would run down the street naked if this happened. We'd have 2 first round picks and enough cap to go after monroe, parsons or hayward. Winning.

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What a catch22.

I want that trade to get rid of Gordon.....but I wouldn't want to see Youtube footage of Guru naked!!!!

Ryno for Green, 17, and Joel Anthony? I've never seen Anthony play but he averaged 5.6 minutes a game so we would take his 3.8 mil for this year. I wouldn't dislike this trade but wouldn't love it. I am really high on Jeff Green and think he would be a nice fit here. BTW I am also more on the side of not trading Ryno

wow, I'd like with a trade to Chicago to get Cleoanthony Early, Rodney Hood or Clint Copela

All I need to know about Green is that Celtics fans talking about him sounds almost line us talking about Gordon.

Green for ryno? Sure. Why not AD for monroe straight up or jrue for jennings.

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Originally Posted by Kurgan

Green for ryno? Sure. Why not AD for monroe straight up or jrue for jennings.

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Ah, Hyperbole at it's finest.


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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I would run down the street naked if this happened. We'd have 2 first round picks and enough cap to go after monroe, parsons or hayward. Winning.

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What about Lebron?

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

He can give us a 3 and D that can also finish at the rim, dude is strong, look at those posterizers

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And posterizers win games? You seem to get infatuated with highlights? You also seem to zero in on a player you just have to see traded (i.e. Anderson) no matter what we get in return. :rolleyes:

The only reason i mentioned Jeff Green in this thread as a target using whatever draft pick we can get our hands on is because:

A) The salaries match which would allow us to still use MLE on another SF for depth or a center.
B) He fills a position of need, where Ryno is a luxury.
C) He has a player option in 2015. He will most likely play well enough to test the market if things don't work out. That leaves more money to use on a much better FA class.
D) History shows he is a much better player as a 3rd or fourth option.
E) He has potential to be an above average defender when not asked to do it all on the offensive side.
F) looking at it from a Loomis/Dell perspective, adding Green would fill more seats in the arena. When he is on his game, he is a fun player to watch and is real passionate about the game.

I highly doubt this happens because Green is outspoken and there is a good chance he and Monty would butt heads.

IMO you guys against idea are against it because you have a certain SF in mind. We could still sign PJ Tucker to play significant minutes at the three because Green is versatile playing both the three and stretch 4. It is obviously a what have you done lately mindset on this board.





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F) It's still a terrible trade.

UNO, PER is a tool that that is best used to measure box score production (with a bonus for efficiency). Since most box score stats are offensive stats, it leans towards players that are better at offense and/or have higher usage rates.

However, it is not normalized for minutes played and can be unreliable for low-minute players. Trying to turn it into a rate stat also causes issues.

A good way to look at it is: between two players with minutes in the same ball-park, the player with a significantly higher PER is the better offensive player. Great players will nearly always have a really high PER, but not every player with a high PER is a great player.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

The only reason i mentioned Jeff Green in this thread as a target using whatever draft pick we can get our hands on is because:

A) The salaries match which would allow us to still use MLE on another SF for depth or a center.
B) He fills a position of need, where Ryno is a luxury.
C) He has a player option in 2015. He will most likely play well enough to test the market if things don't work out. That leaves more money to use on a much better FA class.
D) History shows he is a much better player as a 3rd or fourth option.
E) He has potential to be an above average defender when not asked to do it all on the offensive side.


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And thats fair. Here would be my counters

A) This is also true for numerous players around the league. Not an argument in and of itself
B) Position of Need should always be a tiebreaker IMO, not anything more. Whether this comes to the draft, FA, trades, etc. You always want the best players. You don't take a lesser player because he plays a perceived position of current need.
C) This is confusing to me. So, in this scenario, I am trading Ryno for an expiring and supposed to be happy about that?
D) Actually, it doesn't. When he was this in OKC, the lineups where he was on the floor were much worse than the ones where he was off. This is why they traded him. And he was no more efficient individually.
E) Not a provable argument either way

Look, I would consider trading Austin and our cap room to make an uneven trade for Green if they wanted to get younger and save money. He is not terrible by any means. But I still have not seen one compelling argument that would make me even consider Green for Ryno

Do not want Green at that price yeesh

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wAbuiLmfhDo

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He seems to be a different player since his was out with the heart condition. Dude balled-out.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I would run down the street naked if this happened. We'd have 2 first round picks and enough cap to go after monroe, parsons or hayward. Winning.

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2 of the 3? No we don't have enough cap space.

As far the thread goes, I'm so glad I missed the Ryno AND a 1st for Green debate. I'd pop a blood vessel.

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Originally Posted by All Metro

Do not want Green at that price yeesh

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I don't either. He doesn't stay healthy and never plays a full season. He is Gordon at SF. Why would we give up Anderson and 1 for Green. That is a dumb trade.

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Originally Posted by TheDawg26

I don't either. He doesn't stay healthy and never plays a full season. He is Gordon at SF. Why would we give up Anderson and 1 for Green. That is a dumb trade.

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What the heck are you talking about? He played 81 games in 2012 and 82 last year. He was diagnosed with a heart condition in 2011 but obviously keeps passing physicals. No way they would let him play if they thought he would die on the court.


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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

I would run down the street naked if this happened. We'd have 2 first round picks and enough cap to go after monroe, parsons or hayward. Winning.

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1. I too would love it if this happened.
2. Don't go to jail
3. When are you becoming PELICANguru?

I hate when we have a ton of good arguments and then somebody comes out with a poor one. Allows the opponent to focus in on the poor argument and crush it; ignore the good ones.

Forget TheDawg's argument. You have any responses to the good arguments against Green for Ryno? I am completely open minded but haven't been swayed yet one inch.

WILL NO ONE CHALLENGE MAC!?!?!

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I hate when we have a ton of good arguments and then somebody comes out with a poor one. Allows the opponent to focus in on the poor argument and crush it; ignore the good ones.

Forget TheDawg's argument. You have any responses to the good arguments against Green for Ryno? I am completely open minded but haven't been swayed yet one inch.

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OKC traded Green for Perkins.

PERKINS!!!

They knew Green was who he was going to be. He hasn't changed other than developing a heart condition.
No way I trade Rhyno for him! Forget about the pick!

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Originally Posted by Caffeinedisastr

OKC traded Green for Perkins.

PERKINS!!!

They knew Green was who he was going to be. He hasn't changed other than developing a heart condition.
No way I trade Rhyno for him! Forget about the pick!

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I think that is the consensus opinion, but I always stay open minded and am willing to hear an opposing argument. Just havent heard a goo one yet