I like Reddish something tells me his skillset is a better fit for the NBA than the college game. The biggest thing with him is I hear too many questions about his work ethic. That kind of stuff scares me.
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Shamit Dua and Mason Ginsberg had Ricky O'Donnell from SBN on the latest edition of In the N.O., and Ricky said he thinks Reddish is going to be the player in this draft that gets a GM fired.
He was not good at college. He just wasn't. Shot poorly, didn't play D, moved kind of awkwardly, etc etc. But he looks like he should be better than he is. His jumper is so smooth to watch, it looks like it should fall even though it doesn't. Either he is going to really click together at the NBA level and be a huge player, or he's going to be a total bust. A GM will either pass over him and get fired when he explodes into a top tier player, or they'll take him and get fired when he busts out hard.
Personally, I wouldn't take the risk on him, but he's truly the definition of high risk, high reward.
Anything that can get Zion and Ja together , i'm for.
Did anybody see The Ringer’s draft guide? Jonathan Tjarks had my boy Brandon Clarke at two. I did not realize his wingspan was only 6’9 ish, figured it was longer. I still think if its the Celtics package and includes no. 14, I would love to see a front-court pairing of Clarke and Zion closing out games. I also had not heard much discussion about my favorite package which is the Clippers. The core would be Shamet, SGA, and the Miami 2021 unprotected first. Im sure either Harrell or Gallo would be included, and more firsts.
Yeah, I'm pretty sceptical about Clarke, partially cause he is pretty old for a rookie (obviously you would still take him if you really liked him despite that) and he's basically got a wingspan the same as his height, which kinda sucks for an undersized guy who can only really play at C.
I'm not so hot on the Clippers package. The guys over on the Bird Calls podcast released their episode on the Clippers trade packages just recently, and they absolutely rave about SGa's potential, and I just don't see it. At least, not on the level they do. Some of the guys on there, I think Grubb was one of them, basically made the argument that SGA is a future star. Not just a good roleplayer, but a star. I don't get that from watching him play, or from his numbers. He has the potential to be a solid player, sure, but I'm not sure if I'm seeing anything magical.
Similar with Shamet. He's a solid shooter, and in the playoffs he did have that one great game against Golden State, but he struck me as a good solid roleplayer type too, rather than a star.
I do like Harrell, and the Miami pick is promising. I'd assume Gallo would be included to make salaries work.
I think possibly the worst argument they had is where they listed a couple of extremely mediocre advanced stats on the pod, and then acted like that was an achievement because relatively few other guards had had that specific arrangement of advanced stats.
They were like, ''oh SGA had a 13.4 PER, a .554 TS%, 0.9 VORP, .074 WS/48, and 3.3 WS this season... the only other rookie guards in the last ten years to post those numbers were X, Y, Z'' and it's like, sure, because that's quite a lot of stats and some of them don't really line up with each other so if you demand a complex enough sequence you make the number of possible matches pretty small. But on a case by case basis, what do those numbers mean? Well, 13.4 PER is a little under league average. 55.4% TS is about league average. 0.9 VORP is above average but nothing amazing. .074 WS/48 isn't great. 3.3 WS for a starter on a playoff team isn't very good.
I think we disagree on SGA, i.e. if you were just looking at the guys that would headline packages. SGA, Tatum, Ingram, and Barrett, I would personally take SGA over all 4 although Tatum is close. His shooting has only improved since he was at Kentucky, in high school he was seen as a question mark in that department, and it has continued to get better. He is not an explosive athlete for a PG by any means, but plays with pace and feel well beyond his years. In that regard he is similar to Luka although obviously not at that level. While not an elite playmaker, he is certainly serviceable at this point, and it would only seem he is going to get better in that regard. He’s also 6’6 with a 7’0 foot wingspan and his defense isn’t theoretical he has already shown it at the NBA level. A Jrue/SGA backcourt would be devastating defensively. You could essentially build a team that 3 of your 5 starters are elite multi positional defenders. On Shamet we agree, but he seems to be the perfect non-star you would want to build around Zion. High IQ guys with elite shooting ability. Gallo and Harrell are what they are, and I would not wanna have to pay Harrell 15 plus million next year just to keep him, although he is a solid player.
Having said that if the Celtics would include Tatum, Brown, and the Memphis pick next year as the nucleus, I would still take that over the Clippers package.
I touched on this with Clarke, and I actually wasn’t aware of his wingspan until you mentioned it, but he has completely reworked his jump shot in the last year. The strides he has made only in the last year are incredibly promising. You couple that with the touch he shows with finishing and floaters, etc., I feel very confident that he is a league average shooter sooner rather than later. Essentially progression is not linear. Couple that with his defensive prowess, and the idea of a Zion/Clarke front-court closing out games makes me drool.
Sorry I can’t quote for some reason Pelicanidae, still having issues posting.
We disagree a bit on SGA. His shooting was seen as a liability coming out of high school, and there were even some questions about it coming into the league. The fact that he is already a league average shooter leads me to believe he is going to be at least a plus shooter relatively soon. While not an explosive athlete, the pace and feel he play with is remarkable for a 19 year old, while not at Luka’s level it really is something to behold. He is also 6’6 with a 7’0 foot wingspan. His defensive potential, and what he has already shown in the league is incredible. Pairing him with Jrue and Zion, would essentially give you 3 elite multi positional defenders. He also doesn’t have to be on the ball, which would make him an ideal partner for both Zion and Jrue. While not an elite playmaker, he is solid, and only continues to get better. I would be really surprised if he at least does not make a couple of all star teams. He could also be one of those guys whose stats don’t match his value. The Al Horford of guards so to speak. I think the Miami pick has real value they are in cap hell, and unless Pat Riley can pull something off, which I am not discounting, they easily seem like a lottery team in 2021. We agree on Shamet, although a high IQ guy who shoots lights would be the type of guys Im getting to build around Zion. I would rather have Shamet than say Mitchell Robinson.
Having said that if the Celtics would include Tatum, Brown, and the Memphis pick next year as the nucleus, I would still take that over the Clippers package.
I touched on this with Clarke, and I actually wasn’t aware of his wingspan until you mentioned it, but he has completely reworked his jump shot in the last year. The strides he has made only in the last year are incredibly promising. You couple that with the touch he shows with finishing and floaters, etc., I feel very confident that he is a league average shooter sooner rather than later. Essentially progression is not linear. Couple that with his defensive prowess, and the idea of a Zion/Clarke front-court closing out games makes me drool.
I think we disagree on SGA, i.e. if you were just looking at the guys that would headline packages. SGA, Tatum, Ingram, and Barrett, I would personally take SGA over all 4 although Tatum is close. His shooting has only improved since he was at Kentucky, in high school he was seen as a question mark in that department, and it has continued to get better. He is not an explosive athlete for a PG by any means, but plays with pace and feel well beyond his years. In that regard he is similar to Luka although obviously not at that level. While not an elite playmaker, he is certainly serviceable at this point, and it would only seem he is going to get better in that regard. He’s also 6’6 with a 7’0 foot wingspan and his defense isn’t theoretical he has already shown it at the NBA level. A Jrue/SGA backcourt would be devastating defensively. You could essentially build a team that 3 of your 5 starters are elite multi positional defenders. On Shamet we agree, but he seems to be the perfect non-star you would want to build around Zion. High IQ guys with elite shooting ability. Gallo and Harrell are what they are, and I would not wanna have to pay Harrell 15 plus million next year just to keep him, although he is a solid player.
Strange that you're still not able to post normally. I wonder why that is, but I'm afraid I have no idea.
For SGA, I'm aware that his defense is good and I'm pretty happy to go along with the fact that he's a capable, switchy defender with real length. A lot of my problem with him comes on offense. Obviously he's only a rookie, and he's only what, 20? So he still has time to improve, but there's very little in his game offensively that really knocks my socks off. He shot about league average from three this year, and a touch above average on catch and shoot threes, but well below average off the dribble. That's not the end of the world, but it's also not massively encouraging. He only put up a little over 10 points a game, and only about 3 assists per game. I know he only played a bit over 25 minutes a game, but if you're not scoring as a PG you need to be playmaking and creating for others, and he wasn't really doing that. He wasn't awful at it either, I'm not trying to say that, but I'm just trying to explain why I don't see star from him.
I think my worry is that when you trade AD, you really want somebody with star potential in there. With the Knicks, there's the #3 pick which could be Barrett. Some think he has that possible all-star potential, I know I do. With Boston, there's Tatum who has already flashed some of that star potential. With the Clippers, I think they just have a couple of good promising roleplayers. There's definitely value in that, but I don't value it over potential all-star guys, especially when their picks aren't that great either.
I write that knowing I might be abnormally high on SGA, I would point blank take him over both Morant and Barrett longterm in a heartbeat.
Lol Na, I havent listened to the podcast yet. I am not the only one that high on SGA though, Jonathan Tjarks expressed similar thoughts on The Ringer’s draft podcast on Friday, he would take SGA 2 in this draft no questions asked, and liked him over Tatum. I think our disagreement is I view SGA as future all star and you do not. I agree Barrett certainly has that potential, but SGA’s floor is just so much higher, and I think he has all star potential.
Been seeing coach Vinson at the gym. Want me to ask him if he knows what they are doing lol?
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I think how you feel about the Clippers package depends totally on how you feel about SGA. I think even a high end Clippers package is somewhat limited, though if other teams don't go all out I could be talked into it.
I really like him. I see a lot of Jrue Holiday in him both offensively and defensively, with the main difference being that he's much longer and a bit less quick (and not nearly as strong as current Jrue). I see him as a pretty sure long-term starter, with multiple time All-Star as his ceiling. He has a great feel for playing in the half-court, is smooth, skilled, and incredibly long at the point. He understands how to use ball-screens and in a limited sample size is dangerous in isolation. He's a good defender already who will eventually be able to guard 1-3, maybe small ball 4s given his nearly 7 foot wingspan. He gets blocks, steals at a high rate for a guard, pretty similar in that regard to Jrue as well.
He needs to do a better job limiting bad turnovers and could improve as a playmaker in the halfcourt, but he's a smart, unselfish player who I think will get there.
He lacks high end athleticism or high end shooting skill that makes it hard for me to imagine him as an All-NBA type of guy.
I think he's one of the better assets available that have been discussed for AD. The rest of the Clippers stuff is kind of meh, though Shamet is a great, cost-controlled shooter who doesn't kill you otherwise, which is valuable.
Who knows what the offers will be. Breaking it down into tiers, with my target being maximizing my top end talent and future flexibility, based upon length of contract, potential of asset:
Tatum
SGA, 3 (I like SGA a bit better than 3)
4
Siakam
Lonzo
Memphis Pick, Brandon Ingram, Jaylen Brown, Mitchell Robinson, Landry Shamet, Marcus Smart
14, Future Heat, Kuzma, OG Anunoby
Other Celtics picks, Future Sixers, Future Mavs, Future Lakers, Future Knicks, Future Clippers, Future Raptors
Getting rid of Solomon Hill
Hart, Trier, Danilo Gallinari's expiring, Montrez Harrell's expiring, Van Vleet
Kevin Knox, Mo Wagner, other minor pieces
I think Celtics have the most good pieces with good fit and are diversified over the years. They can make the strongest offer, who knows if they will. I think Lakers are next, but their pieces have fit issues and probably at least one if not several would need to be moved to other teams. I don't think their best pieces are quite as good as the Celtics, Knicks, or Clippers best piece, but they have probably 3 things as good or better than the next best asset from any of those teams. I think, gun to my head, I prefer the Lakers absolute best offer to the Clippers and Knicks best offers, but it's tough and I like Brandon Ingram better than most.
http://www.inquisitr.com/5449576/nba...anthony-davis/
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I don't see why the Suns would do that but I'd be interested in it. It's basically better players than NYK or LAL but with a worse pick.
I would probably take that Suns deal, but I would want to flip Jackson.
I like a deal with Brooklyn over anything else I’ve seen. If we could Russell, LeVert, Allen, & maybe Harris. We would essentially be trading AD for the core of a young promising playoff team in the east. Then if we like whoever they acquire in the draft maybe we add one of those players as well. I would like to get one player on a rookie deal, so hopefully we like who they draft or get a future pick instead. Someone like Romeo Langford would be a nice get IMO. I would drop Harris for one or both the first round rookies they draft if they get a decent wing, big, or point guard we like. They have done pretty good in the draft and since we would be getting the core of the team they have now they would likely draft players that fit those 4. Russell & LeVert would be a damn good duo to go with Zion & Jrue. LeVert was beast in the playoffs in those 5 games averaging 21 ppg. He looked unstoppable at times. Russell looked great as well. Allen would be a good starting center. Those 3 are a lot better than what the Knicks have to offer. I just love the thought of getting a 23 year old Russell on the start of a brand new contract that he will hit his prime during. Then hopefully sign LeVert to a decent extension that would run out right when Zion’s rookie deal would be coming up.
C: Allen
PF: Zion
SF: LeVert
SG: Jrue
PG: Russell
I love that team and hope AD would be willing to sign there. Or hope the Nets go back to their dumb ways and make the deal no matter what lol.
I do not get the hype for Ayton, theoretically sure, but then I watch him play. He just seems destined to be a guy that will never get the most out of his ability. If Ayton was Jaren Jackson Jr. instead, then I would be all about it. I do like TJ Warren, and generally don’t see as much as a drop off between Morant/Barrett and the next group as most.
I think it’s funny all these Celtics fans offering up there trade packages that don’t include Tatum
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I think if we do trade AD we may as well throw Solomon Hill along with him to free up some cap space. I am sure they will agree to the trade and they can figure out how they want to use/trade SH later. The Knicks have alot of cap room that is ideal for such a trade as they may do it just to ensure the AD acquisition.
^^^ You never know. Could be something like that. Hayward's going to be a lot better next year than he was this year.
Here's a hot take, no idea how popular or unpopular it is:
Hayward was never that great. He was just the best scorer on a team that was desperate for offensive players. He wasn't awful either, but there are heaps of players who would have been just as successful in Utah as he was.
I would do something like this....
Pels trade: AD + Solo
Knicks trade:
- 2019 1st round 3rd pick (we pick RJ Barrett)
- 2020 2nd round pick (Knicks received from Hornets)
- 2021 1st round pick (Knicks are receiving from Mavs as the option is open when Mavs complete their trade with Atlanta this draft)
- Kevin Knox
- Mitchell Robinson
This trade builds a young core, does a nice swap for AD, Solo contract is released, sets us up for the future. For the knicks they get AD and they still have a number of 2nd round picks. With the potential of KD and Kyrie they will be cap tight for several years anyway so additional 1st round picks will only complicate things. They might as well take the chance and grab AD while the window is open and make a run for the chip before we are up and running....cause its game over then.
lets go.
If AD is gone, our clock is right back to 0 so moving Hill isn't ultra important other than if it's needed to match salaries. We can just let him expire with no real detriment.
That's not to say we shouldn't make it a condition of said hypothetical trade
Throw in some recency bias for good measure
I'm not too committed to it, I haven't done a HUGE amount of research into the deeper analytics or anything so I could be easily wrong. Maybe his synergy stats and his PPP stuff is off the charts, but he just never blew me away to watch him play, and looking at his more surface numbers doesn't knock my socks off either.
His final year in Utah, which was his best year, had him averaging pretty much 22/5/3.5, on around 47% from the floor and 39% from 3. His net rating was +12. PER of 22.2, WS/48 of .199, BPM of 4.2. All of that is pretty good, but doesn't blow anything away. The only obvious, conventional stat that he really excelled in was his VORP, which was 4.0 and is roughly equal to Kemba Walker's this year, who I think we would probably agree is a very good player but is not in top tier of superstars.
He was an above average player, sure, but was he $30+m per year good? Nah. That's what I mean by not that great. Definitely above average. Certainly capable. But people were acting like Boston had snatched him from Utah in a master-move, when in reality all they did was pay a bit too much for a second tier star. Would be the third best player on a championship team, at most.
This would be my absolute dream offseason:
Brooklyn: AD
Pelicans: Sign & trade De’Angelo Russell, Caris LeVert, Jarrett Allen, Indiana’s SG/SF Romeo Langford(the 17th pick) or Kentucky’s SF/SG Keldon Johnson & LSU PF/C Naz Reid(the 27th pick)
We draft Purdue G Carsen Edwards at 37 and UCLA PG Jaylen Hands at 57.
C: Allen, Okafor
PF: Zion, Reid (a big PF that can also play center would be a perfect backup to Zion)
SF: LeVert, Langford or Johnson (either wing would be the player I would hope the Nets take at 17 if he makes it there)
SG: Jrue, Moore, Edwards
PG: Russell, Hands
I would take those 5 players for AD and be extremely happy. So hopefully the Nets would take those 2 if available. Then hopefully we get some decent players in the 2nd round. A backup point guard would be nice and I would love the best player available at whatever position at 37. I like Edwards as a Lou Williams type guard that would fit in nice with a bigger point guard like Russell. I didn’t list all the players we have either, mainly just the offseason additions.
This doesn’t even include any free agent signings. I wouldn’t mind bringing back Payton to be our backup point guard if the moneys right.
Naz Reid is never going to make an NBA roster. Langford is a GOD AWFUL shooter. I dont know how much youve watched Carson Edwards, but he's certainly NOT a Lou Williams comparison.
Edwards is the spitting image of Allen Iverson. Small, ball dominant, volume shooter.
Yea i dont think the dallas picks from ny may be the quality of 2019 and 2020 picks and really more to stretch the negotiation...but you never know they could fall on their face and end up well for us. There is also the option of grabbing some of their second picks to make up the difference. At some point however they will only go so far to make a deal.
Draft Day goes something like this...
Pelicans take Zion
Grizzlies take Ja
Knicks take RJ
Lakers take Garland
Cavs take Culver
Suns take White
Bulls take Reddish
We have a trade...!!
Pels get Garland, Reddish, Otto, Kuzma, 2020 Lakers and 2022 Lakers
Bulls get Ingram, Ball, Moore and Solo
Lakers get Anthony Davis
We roll into free agency with...
Garland/Frank
Jrue/Reddish
Otto/Kenrich
Zion/Kuzma
Wood/Okafor/Diallo
Otto gives you a plug and play wing, but also his big contract expires long before we have to pay 2nd contracts on our 3 rookies, which means we can have flexibility to pivot once we have a better idea of how to maximize Zion/Garland and what Reddish becomes as an NBA player.
Garland, because of his outside shooting off the dribble, is the ideal PG to pair with Jrue and Zion. Reddish is a flyer on a guy who could be an All Star at a position that isn’t very deep. Or he could be a bust. But IMO, he’s worth the gamble. If he’s your 3rd first round pick, and the other two are Zion and Garland, he’s not going to get Griff fired.
(This concludes my TED talk)
I'm a little more optimistic than most about the Dallas picks. Sure, they have Doncic and Porzingis, but Porzingis has been seriously injured to the point where he's barely played in 2 seasons. I'd be pretty surprised if he came back at all-star level, and given the number of injuries he's had already, it wouldn't be too shocking if there was another in his future.
And even if Porzingis does come back well, how good are Dallas with Doncic and Porzingis? They've always struggled to bring free agents to the Mavericks and with how good the West is right now, I could easily see them missing the playoffs for a while still.
They'll certainly have the money to, they have around $38m in cap this summer. 4 teams have more though, and another 4 teams have basically $30m free too. Sure, KD, Kyrie, and Kawhi are all on the market, but that's only 3 top flight free agents with 9 teams around that have plenty of money. I wouldn't be surprised if someone else like maybe Sacramento was willing to throw him big cash that he'd prefer to take.
Randle isn't staying here, imo. We don't have much money once everything is said and done, and unless he wants to hang around for $10m or so, he's gone. Besides, he's kind of made redundant by Zion, who is a similar player in a lot of ways but just a lot better.