Well at least 2 people in this thread so far.
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Yes Lowry also didn't play with a super star like AD! DeRozan is good, but he is not on AD's level and not a big. He put up 3 more points and one more rebound on a team where he was the 1st or 2nd option. Had Jrue ever been the 1st or 2nd option on this team? I don't think so, or at least he was tied with EG, Reke, or Ryno.
It's hard to get those shooting numbers when you take 8 shots a game. If he shot 50% percent for his career that would be an average of 8 points a game!! Gordon did help this team make the playoffs!! I would argue it wasn't that bad of a contract, if he stays healthy throughout the contract!! Gordon can play and give u 15 points a game with his eyes closed.
And how do u know what anyone's prime will be?? That's ludicrous IMO
Jrue starting was putting up much better #s then those and being a better defender. Also like I said just entering his prime being 4 years younger at 6'4 to Lowry at 6'. Lowry was not the best player either that would definitely be Derozan. He had a better record but that does not mean he's the better player over Jrue. There is no way you can definitively say he's better than Jrue. I will bet whatever you want that we see Jrue is no doubt the better player next season. You are very bias to Jrue and don't like him much because you somehow feel the need to shoot anything he does down to bring Reke up.
Honestly, I like The Qpon starting.
I think we need two good scorers off the bench....Probably Reke but maybe Hield is one.....Anderson coming back would be a good number two IF he can stay healthy.....but what are the odds of that? So replacing Anderson with a scorer who can stay healthy is more important than improving the starting SF spot, IMO.
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I have said this from the beginning as well. Barnes needs to come here and be option 3a/3b. I have no reason to believe he can't come here and make another 3 pointer per game giving him 15 ppg while bringing everything else he does. That's all we need from him and like I said at worse that is what we get. Has the potential to be much more.
Gordon was payed as your cornerstone piece. Being paid 15 million a year when he was to be a 3rd or 4th option and the team itself is only a middling playoff team at best is a bad contract.
And its not hard to see what Barnes would do because we have examples of it. He had numerous opportunities in the post season both years to take up the mantle and become a 2nd option when injuries, struggles were cropping up and teams were daring him to beat them. The finals was particularly ugly as my image showed. He was basically the guy the Cavs hid players on that couldn't defend and he STILL couldn't burn them.
I didn't know Coach K had to pay Harrison Barnes 20 million to join the Olympic team.
I have said this from the beginning as well. Barnes needs to come here and be option 3a/3b. I have no reason to believe he can't come here and make another 3 pointer per game giving him 15 ppg while bringing everything else he does. That's all we need from him and like I said at worse that is what we get. Has the potential to be much more. If GS was going to pay him $17 million I don't see how it is a bad signing for us at $18-$20 but not them. That difference in price stops us from signing a Babbit or Gee type player.
Because for them they already have a championship squad and its just maintaining continuity.
For us it is relying on him to be something he is not. For grossly overpaying for a role player when other options are out there that would do the same thing and not cost as much. Or could be avoided til a better opportunity presents itself.
How do people not see the difference? Seriously.
I'm there with you. I can live with Q Pon starting. He's a good 3 and D wing. I like the starting line-up of Holiday, Hield, Q-Pon, AD, and Asik. But it wouldn't hurt to have an upgrade at the SF and C for the right price. It's unlikely we can afford a better C this year though. But your right we do need another scorer off the bench. Reke would be good off the bench but we need another scorer. I think Ryno is more than likely going to be overpaid so we need another scorer in his place. I really think Ennis will be a nice 3 pt shooter off the bench but having another scoring wing would be nice.
Frazier/QPon/Ennis will be a very good back court off the bench IMO. Those 3 guys IMO fit each other perfectly and will be the best back court/wing off the bench we have ever had.
Jrue/Hield/Barnes/AD
Frazier/QPon/Ennis/Ryno
That's a team I think can do some damage and be serious contenders in a couple years with players improving. If Hield turns out to be what we all expect along with Barnes steadily improving then I believe we can win a championship. I'm all for keeping Ryno at the right price. I think people under rate what he brings to a good team. When surrounded by good players and not having to do much more then he should be asked he is a dangerous player who is not easily replaceable. Man if Diallo can fill out and be our starting center in a year or two then we can be something serious. Need to get rid of Asik/Rekes contract and it's on!
A "few" bad games in the finals? Really? That's what we are calling it?
The guy played 743 minutes in the playoffs. He posted a 9-4-1 stat line on a career low FG% 38, career low TS% 47.4, career low PER 8.6, career low TRB% 8.2, career low ast % 5.8. He also had his lowest 3pt % and lowest FT rate. So the worst he's ever shot, rebounded, and assisted in the playoffs ever. . .
But it's just a few bad games in the finals? Come on.
If that is what they paid him and that is what he did, I wouldn't complain. And on paper it would be a good move. Barnes on paper is a lot to like.
But I'm just not sold that he's a 3d option on a contender. Chance after chance to make an impact in the big games and he rarely shines. Not just this Finals or last 2 years, but since college. Sure he still has plenty of room to improve, but he played two years in college and 4 years in the pros. what are we waiting for? Now I totally agree that wherever he goes he will get more attempts and more scoring. But I don't see the big upside for a potential star player. He's an A level complementary player who gives you some massive dunks. Ask yourselves, will the team that commits 20-25% of its cap space to him be catching up to GSW or falling further behind?
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Folks should keep in mind AD is finally going to have his "man" weight beginning this year. He's at that age now (23/24). So all the things he was predicted to do last year, we'll see it this year.
So I simply think this team doesn't need as much help. Provided all the core players can finally stay on the floor. Which is also why this team would be just fine with Q Pon at 3 or someone similar. Definitely do not need to over pay some FA.
So can someone tell me what free agent will give us what Barnes can this offseason?? Why is he going to play for Team USA?
And how many times do I have to say that we don't need him to be a star player!! Who can we sign that is 6'8" and can do what he does besides Batum that is older, more expensive, and won't come here IMO??
So since he didn't ball out in the playoffs for a team that doesn't need him to ball out regularly, he will keep performing bad in the playoffs? His team got to the finals in back to back seasons?? Guess he had nothing to do with that?? So the Warriors would of won the title and 73 games without him?? You really think that?? Why would they consider bringing him back if he's just your run of the mill small foward? How many small forwards are in this league that are his size and put up decent numbers playing the 3 & 4??
You know Draymond had 3 horrible performances in the finals too right?
Small forwards that IMO we may be able to sign besides Barnes:
2016:
Evan Turner - can't shoot
Jeff Green - hasn't lived up to expectations
Marvin Williams - more power forward than small forward
Jared Dudley - older shooter with not much else to offer
Matt Barnes - no way
Gerald Green - inconsistent and can't play small ball 4
Chase Budinger - always hurt and can't even shoot like he used to
Allen Crabbe maybe - shooter that can't play the 4
Michael Beasley lol - terrible
2017:
Rudy Gay - old hero ball type
Andre Iguodala - older player that will likely only play for a contender
Danilo Gallinari - not sure if we could get him and I don't want him cause of his injury history)
Stick with what we have:
Reke - shouldn't be playing small forward, but if we don't add anything I would rather him start at the 3 than what we have.
QPon - servicable player, think he would be better coming off the bench
DC - rather him play small ball 4 or stretch 4. He's ok but not a consistent shooter. Rather he come off bench as well
Gee - shouldn't be a starter in the league
Babbitt - good shooter and that's it, also shouldn't be starting
Ennis - played good at the end of last year, but hasn't shown to be a day in, day out starter. Would like to bring him back off the bench, but have to get rid of Gee & Babbitt to do so IMO
QPon is also that vocal leader type this team desperately needs. Also a reason why he played well in a starter's role at the 3 and the team won games. My only ?s are his knees.
Question answers in order:
Many free agents can be a 5th option on a team, which is what Barnes is. He's going to team USA because all the other SFs they asked before him turned them down.
If you pay a player max money he should be a star player. Or at the very least, marginally above average. You usually don't pay your 5th option max money.
Because he didn't do anything with any opportunity he ever got odds are he will never be more than an average player. His team carried him. He had nothing to do with that. The Warriors would have won the title if Barnes had given them anything that last game. The Warriors would have won 73 games without him. Yes. Because they have his rights and can go over the cap to resign him and as I said, he is average. Enough that we shouldn't be desperate to drastically overpay an average player.
Draymond at least showed up most games, post his playoff numbers if you want to compare.
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Now that those questions have been answered.
Don't get so wrapped up in one player. Especially one who has never been more than average ever. Potential is nice, but there are plenty of players who never live up to theirs. I did that with Rivers - well to be fair Rivers at least showed flashes sometimes - and it taught me a lot. Having potential and being a gym rat, and having a chip on your shoulder is nice but not everything.
If Barnes had ever shown the ability to take over then people wouldn't be so against it. However, the problem is, he hasn't. Instead of seizing an opportunity he has shrunk back. To the point that in the finals the Warriors played an one legged Iggy over their 24 yr old protege.
This was supposed to be his big year where he takes his next step and showed he deserves big money. Instead he regressed. Not only that but he let is entire team down during the playoffs. Not for a couple games, but the entire playoffs. He just plain didn't show up.
You say Gee shouldn't be a starter in this league but Barnes for over 700 minutes was no better than Gee. This isn't small sample size, this is a huge chunk of minutes that not only was Barnes Mr. irrelevant but he was actually detrimental to his team.
This is not the time to fantasize players we are thinking about going after in Free Agency. This is the time to scrutinize all our options before we make a move. How anyone can sit here and so vehemently defend the steaming pile of turd Barnes turned in during the playoffs is beyond me. He wasn't average, he wasn't below average, he wasn't even bad. He was terrible. If there was a level below that, that's what his playoff performance would be. He was the Alonzo Gee of the playoffs.
People absolutely destroyed Aminu on here, and yet he never turned in as bad of a performance as Barnes did during the playoffs. Barnes was awful. To be so blinded by love for a player that you cannot objectively look at him is, well. . .it makes me pity you.
My favorite is they wanna pay him $17 million for continuity even though he's not good at basketball. I trust the Warriors just like I trust our coaches over anyone's opinion here that has seen a handful of games of him. The Warriors aren't offering him that $ because of his name or continuity it's because of his skill set and talent. They see him every single day and know what he brings to the table and what he can with further development. Team USA is not bringing him on just because he's an average player. They speak to the coaches about what they can bring along with evaluating on their own. I have still yet to get a better alternative to him this and next year that will realistically come here. If Durant or Batum will come I'm all for it but they likely won't. Oh but we should put all of our eggs in the basket for Hayward next year? Why would he turn down a 5th year for way more $ with the Jazz or pick us over the Celtics with his former coach that he has a great relationship with? If anything Barnes gives us a nice trade chip if something better presents itself in a year or two with someone like Butler or PG13. Sure we might be paying $2-$3 million more then I would like to get him for but he also has the potential to be worth every penny. If not then oh well I guess we can't sign Luke Babbit lol.
The kid fits exactly what we need at the SF position especially if Hield reaches his potential and Jrue beats the injury big being the player we all expect him to be. I'm not worried about what we his contract because we shouldn't need anyone else worth big $ if our core 4 pans out. I can't understand how he is worth $17 million to GS as their 4th option but at $18-$20 million he is a terrible 3a/3b option for us. Why does he have to be the 2nd option here for that $ but not in GS? Because of continuity?
Oh well people need to get over it quickly because I have a good feeling he will soon be a Pelican. Going to be very tough for GS to match his offer sheet from us if we sign him early and they plan on pursuing the likes of Durant or Horford.
How? We have nothing to give them. Someone like Barnes would actually give us some ammo in a year or two if a stud SF presents itself. Barnes and a couple of 1st round picks could get a deal done with the $ and solid value matching up. As of now we have nothing I would be willing to give up that gives us a better option then QPon. If it is a better option it's likely someone that is as expensive as Barnes and isn't any better which is why they would be moved in the 1st place. A really good player would also cost us a draft pick or two while Barnes allows us to keep them.
Why did? Because of some bad games in the playoffs? I highly doubt that all the sudden changes their mind on the $ they are offering him. That $ is around $12 million under he old cap which he is definitely worth to them. Sure they will be looking to add a better player but there is only a few guys they will even consider over him. They still offered him $17 million so whatever you think they will or won't do doesn't matter because they already "did" offer him.
I saw Bazemore get mentioned as a 6th man or the Tyreke role and I know a few guys (including myself) like Harkless so why not both? If we find a way to dump Tyreke (trade for future pick?) then we have about $30ish million in cap space. Sign Bazemore to 4 yrs/68 million and Harkless to 3 yrs/36 million.
Roster would be:
Jrue/Frazier/Douglas or Cat Barber
Hield/Bazemore
Harkless/QPon/Ennis
AD/Cunningham/Diallo
Asik/Ajincia
Finishing 5 would be:
Jrue
Hield
Bazemore
Harkless
AD
The main knock on Harkless is he can't shoot but that wouldn't be an issue in the finishing 5 with Jrue and Bazemore shooting above 35% from 3 in their career and then having Buddy to knock down a 3 when needed. There would also be plenty of space on the floor for him to drive and get to the rim. He isn't looked at as the 2nd or even 3rd option to begin with so I don't think he will have a problem adjusting. With Bazemore coming off the bench the worry about guarding big, long SFs isn't a concern. Him and QPon are slightly undersized wings, but that shouldn't be an issue against other second units as they are both above average defenders. He also wouldn't guard the big SFs at the end of games because almost everyone goes small at the end of games now. Also the roster is very versatile. Bazemore and QPon can play the 2 and 3, Harkless and Cunningham can play the 3 and 4, Ennis can play 2-4, Diallo and AD can play the 4 and 5, Hield is good with the ball in his hands, Jrue plays well off the ball. There are a lot of different ways to go about the roster and I think that's a problem teams want to have.
I just thought I'd throw it out there as food for thought. I know it's not likely but I thought I would try and combine the best of both worlds.