2012 - 2013 Finals

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

Actually it's not arguable; Lebron is the best player in the league and I'm not sure of anyone who doesn't outlandishly have a personal hate for him that would argue that. Wade at the time was a top 3 player and bosh was what top 12? (We're agreeing lol).

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Agree. When I say "arguably", I mean definite, undisputed, my poor choice of words there.

Could just be because of the missed free throw but still, lol

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

They won a championship. Not sure how it can be considered a failure. Sure they didn't win multiple titles like people expected, but getting there 3 times and winning 1 is pretty good.

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See you have it wrong when u say "like people expected them to do". Like the public and media had too high of expectations for them. THEY THEMSELVES expected to win multiple titles and they SHOULD. I'm not on the boat with wade being a top 2-3 player in the nba. That's a joke. An argument could be made that used to be 4-5 years ago. I also think bosh is overrated but I'll save those 100 million reasons why he is for another day. Someone also said they have the best supporting cast EVER. That's a joke as well. Spurs supporting cast is waaaaaaayyy better than the heats. I can go on and on for teams with better role players than the heats. If Miami only wins 1 title with those guys on the same team. Then that venture was an overall failure which in turn is a disappointment. Especially considering you were in the finals 3 times and only got 1. Of course we don't know if it's over for them after this year but I'm assuming bosh is def gone next year. Bosh making 20+m per year is a travesty.

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Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

Could just be because of the missed free throw but still, lol

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I think he was ready to shoot his ft after lining up.so the sub delayed it. OR could be kawhi is a pest. Boris Diaw checking him for most of that game 5 and shutting him down. I just don't know. I agree lebron is prob the best player in the nba but not by far. I'm just tired of hearing his name in the same stratosphere as the man Jordan!!! Boris Diaw defending Michael Jordan in the nba finals game 5. Hahahahahaha yea right. Jordan would of ate him up on every single play. No exaggeration.

I hope Manu is ready for game 6 tonight
http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.n...e-hair-hat.gif

yikes just read that Joey Crawford is the lead ref tonight. only hope for the Spurs is http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.n...y-crawford.jpg

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

Actually it's not arguable; Lebron is the best player in the league and I'm not sure of anyone who doesn't outlandishly have a personal hate for him that would argue that. Wade at the time was a top 3 player and bosh was what top 12? (We're agreeing lol).

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Lebron is best player in league, but he's not dominating the rest of the league like Jordan did in his time. Jordan was another planet during his time. Lebron is not that quality of a player. Sorry but from the shooting to the diff ways of being able to finish at the rim and his clutch gene of knowing when to take games over separates these 2 and it's just not close. Lebron just bulls his way to the rim and if he doesn't get a decent somewhat open shot then he has trouble finishing at the rim at times. He doesn't adjust in air or in process of shooting and successful at it. Jordans agility and craftiness was on another planet. I'm not directing this at u to say u said any different but want to know how u think of lebrons greatness.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

Lebron is best player in league, but he's not dominating the rest of the league like Jordan did in his time. Jordan was another planet during his time. Lebron is not that quality of a player. Sorry but from the shooting to the diff ways of being able to finish at the rim and his clutch gene of knowing when to take games over separates these 2 and it's just not close. Lebron just bulls his way to the rim and if he doesn't get a decent somewhat open shot then he has trouble finishing at the rim at times. He doesn't adjust in air or in process of shooting and successful at it. Jordans agility and craftiness was on another planet. I'm not directing this at u to say u said any different but want to know how u think of lebrons greatness.

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I don't think Lebron is at Jordan's level as a basketball player but I think he will go down as a top 10 all time guy easily if not top 5.

Jordan was literally the perfect storm and anyone after him (Kobe Lebron etc) will have to not only battle how good he was as a player but what he meant to the game of basketball and his legacy. I think it's harder in today's day and age for anyone to do what Jordan did. Really any comparisons to Jordan to modern day players is apples and oranges. The game is so different and the financial landscape will dictate that even more in the future.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

See you have it wrong when u say "like people expected them to do". Like the public and media had too high of expectations for them. THEY THEMSELVES expected to win multiple titles and they SHOULD. I'm not on the boat with wade being a top 2-3 player in the nba. That's a joke. An argument could be made that used to be 4-5 years ago. I also think bosh is overrated but I'll save those 100 million reasons why he is for another day. Someone also said they have the best supporting cast EVER. That's a joke as well. Spurs supporting cast is waaaaaaayyy better than the heats. I can go on and on for teams with better role players than the heats. If Miami only wins 1 title with those guys on the same team. Then that venture was an overall failure which in turn is a disappointment. Especially considering you were in the finals 3 times and only got 1. Of course we don't know if it's over for them after this year but I'm assuming bosh is def gone next year. Bosh making 20+m per year is a travesty.

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- Wade is STILL a top 3 player WHEN HEALTHY. Wade hasn't really been healthy at all this year.
- I never said they had THE BEST, but ONE of THE BEST. A bench with Haslem, Birdman, Allen, Lewis, Miller with Lebron/Wade/Bosh as your core is a pretty good supporting cast. Spurs supporting cast isn't as DEEP, but they are playing BETTER (may have to do with coaching).
- And we agree on the failure thing and Bosh being paid too much, BUT you can not deny Bosh is their most effiicient player on the team, the stats don't lie. When Bosh gets his touches (ESPECIALLY IN THE POST) he delivers, it's just when you have Wade and LBJ on your team, you will most definitely be the odd man out.

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Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

Could just be because of the missed free throw but still, lol

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I don't know. The sub always happens between FTs. He missed the FT, then had like eight seconds. Then he looks over his shoulder, then makes the face. It could be more "I have to make every point count." But I'm hard pressed to not think Leonard brought that out of him.

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Originally Posted by smittywerb

- Wade is STILL a top 3 player WHEN HEALTHY. Wade hasn't really been healthy at all this year.
- I never said they had THE BEST, but ONE of THE BEST. A bench with Haslem, Birdman, Allen, Lewis, Miller with Lebron/Wade/Bosh as your core is a pretty good supporting cast. Spurs supporting cast isn't as DEEP, but they are playing BETTER (may have to do with coaching).
- And we agree on the failure thing and Bosh being paid too much, BUT you can not deny Bosh is their most effiicient player on the team, the stats don't lie. When Bosh gets his touches (ESPECIALLY IN THE POST) he delivers, it's just when you have Wade and LBJ on your team, you will most definitely be the odd man out.

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No I wasn't meaning to say u said that they had the best. Someone on here in another post said it. I was just adding it in there. Should of clarified that sorry. They were using that as one of their points to say why Miami should be winning all these finals. Anyways I'm taking Leonard, green, splitter over Allen, chalmers and Haslem all day every day. Easy choice. Miami might go a little deeper but the key role players outside the big 3 favor the spurs and it's not close. Yea in no way do I think bosh is trash or nothing like that. He is very efficient but he can't take a game over like a man being paid 20m per yr should be Able to do. He def needs to chill out with the 3s tho lol. I think his numbers will rise again when he departs Miami tho. We will just have to agree to disagree on the wade thing tho. He was top 3-5 a few years back but his body is not holding up for him and I hate that for him. I actually really liked wade BEFORE the big 3. Got to watch him in the final 4 from the floor on the sidelines. When it was in new Orleans the year melo won it all vs Kansas. Never forget that time it was awesome. Rooted for him all the way from the Marquette days up til the big 3. I just don't like or care for Miami now not wade personally. If I'm gonna say a guy is top 3 then that means if I'm able to take any guy on my team then without a doubt there aren't 3 guys I'd take before him. That's just not the case. Id honestly put wade around 10-12 as it stands right now currently. I can't say when healthy cause this is his career now at his age. We are talking TODAY. He's not top 3 no way no how. Durant,lebron, westbrook,rose,Paul,Parker,harden,Howard,m.gasol,a .davis Nd I could argue quite a few more at this point of his career. Maybe we see a top 3 player differently tho.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

I don't think Lebron is at Jordan's level as a basketball player but I think he will go down as a top 10 all time guy easily if not top 5.

Jordan was literally the perfect storm and anyone after him (Kobe Lebron etc) will have to not only battle how good he was as a player but what he meant to the game of basketball and his legacy. I think it's harder in today's day and age for anyone to do what Jordan did. Really any comparisons to Jordan to modern day players is apples and oranges. The game is so different and the financial landscape will dictate that even more in the future.

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Yea I totally agree with the Jordan analysis. Lebron is not even close to Jordan's level of play. Will he go down as top 5? He still has the opportunity to do it. He's still in his prime. I don't think so tho. If he doesn't win another ring. I don't think he can go top 10 either. He has to win 2 more rings atleast to be top 10. IMO. U put him ahead of Kobe?? I don't. I honestly think Kobe in his prime is the closest thing we will ever see of Jordan's type of game and it's still far off. Lol..I just get so dam sick of always hearing about the next Jordan. There never will be another Jordan. Name wise or skill wise. He was just that once in a lifetime type player. His most impressive stat to me to this day is his finals record of 6-6. 100% victory. Lebron doesn't have that killer instinct or seems that it factor Jordan displayed in the face of adversity. Maybe it was just such a special high level of a trait he had. Comparing it to these next generation greats maybe not fair.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

No I wasn't meaning to say u said that they had the best. Someone on here in another post said it. I was just adding it in there. Should of clarified that sorry. They were using that as one of their points to say why Miami should be winning all these finals. Anyways I'm taking Leonard, green, splitter over Allen, chalmers and Haslem all day every day. Easy choice. Miami might go a little deeper but the key role players outside the big 3 favor the spurs and it's not close. Yea in no way do I think bosh is trash or nothing like that. He is very efficient but he can't take a game over like a man being paid 20m per yr should be Able to do. He def needs to chill out with the 3s tho lol. I think his numbers will rise again when he departs Miami tho. We will just have to agree to disagree on the wade thing tho. He was top 3-5 a few years back but his body is not holding up for him and I hate that for him. I actually really liked wade BEFORE the big 3. Got to watch him in the final 4 from the floor on the sidelines. When it was in new Orleans the year melo won it all vs Kansas. Never forget that time it was awesome. Rooted for him all the way from the Marquette days up til the big 3. I just don't like or care for Miami now not wade personally. If I'm gonna say a guy is top 3 then that means if I'm able to take any guy on my team then without a doubt there aren't 3 guys I'd take before him. That's just not the case. Id honestly put wade around 10-12 as it stands right now currently. I can't say when healthy cause this is his career now at his age. We are talking TODAY. He's not top 3 no way no how. Durant,lebron, westbrook,rose,Paul,Parker,harden,Howard,m.gasol,a .davis Nd I could argue quite a few more at this point of his career. Maybe we see a top 3 player differently tho.

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OK, point taken. lol. We basically agree.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

Yea I totally agree with the Jordan analysis. Lebron is not even close to Jordan's level of play. Will he go down as top 5? He still has the opportunity to do it. He's still in his prime. I don't think so tho. If he doesn't win another ring. I don't think he can go top 10 either. He has to win 2 more rings atleast to be top 10. IMO. U put him ahead of Kobe?? I don't. I honestly think Kobe in his prime is the closest thing we will ever see of Jordan's type of game and it's still far off. Lol..I just get so dam sick of always hearing about the next Jordan. There never will be another Jordan. Name wise or skill wise. He was just that once in a lifetime type player. His most impressive stat to me to this day is his finals record of 6-6. 100% victory. Lebron doesn't have that killer instinct or seems that it factor Jordan displayed in the face of adversity. Maybe it was just such a special high level of a trait he had. Comparing it to these next generation greats maybe not fair.

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Oh, I don't think legacy wise he's at Kobe. Kobe is probably the best Laker ever and is easy top 5 (IMHO). I'm a huge Kobe fans so i try and leave him out of these discussions so i dont show bias lol. I think of Lebron as top 10 because of the induvidual achivements he's gotten; but in order for him to climb any high he's got to get 2-3 more championship rings and he can't lose any more finals including this one.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

Yea I totally agree with the Jordan analysis. Lebron is not even close to Jordan's level of play. Will he go down as top 5? He still has the opportunity to do it. He's still in his prime. I don't think so tho. If he doesn't win another ring. I don't think he can go top 10 either. He has to win 2 more rings atleast to be top 10. IMO. U put him ahead of Kobe?? I don't. I honestly think Kobe in his prime is the closest thing we will ever see of Jordan's type of game and it's still far off. Lol..I just get so dam sick of always hearing about the next Jordan. There never will be another Jordan. Name wise or skill wise. He was just that once in a lifetime type player. His most impressive stat to me to this day is his finals record of 6-6. 100% victory. Lebron doesn't have that killer instinct or seems that it factor Jordan displayed in the face of adversity. Maybe it was just such a special high level of a trait he had. Comparing it to these next generation greats maybe not fair.

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A lot of people leave this out, but Jordan's background is a BIG factor into why he was so determined, strong-willed, and trustworthy. Dude didn't make his HS basketball team, played at UNC for THREE, not ONE, but THREE years where he was able to hone his skills and become NBA ready. Not to mention, he had a rival in Len Bias and he learned what it took to actually win a championship (as he did for UNC). By the time he stepped foot on the court, he was ready to go. He didn't have to develop anything but a deep 3 and post-game. Lebron STILL doesn't have much of a post-game, not to mention, Lebron came stright from HS and really has been touted as the next big thing SINCE Jordan. He's been told all his life that he's the "chosen one". I don't think he's had a chance to develop that determination yet.

Danny Green 3 point shot chart is ridiculous
http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.n...nba-finals.jpg

Jordan didn't get cut from high school basketball; he just didn't make varsity as a sophomore is the real story..

Hey random question: would a win tonight (and the 5th ring that comes with it) change your opinion about Duncan? Something I've been thinking since this morning.

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Originally Posted by RealPelicans Fan

Danny Green 3 point shot chart is ridiculous
http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.n...nba-finals.jpg

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That's amazing. He's just hitting it from any spot for 3. They have been luring Green to take those long 3's and haven't contested him much. Wouldn't be shocked to see James defend Green if he starts on fire again.

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Originally Posted by Emilio

Hey random question: would a win tonight (and the 5th ring that comes with it) change your opinion about Duncan? Something I've been thinking since this morning.

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I imagine it would to those who underrate him and his accomplishments.
I already have him Top 5 All Time behind MJ, Magic, Kareem, and Bird, dont know if another ring would push him into Top 3 territory

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Originally Posted by ItsPaulyP

I imagine it would to those who underrate him and his accomplishments.
I already have him Top 5 All Time behind MJ, Magic, Kareem, and Bird, dont know if another ring would push him into Top 3 territory

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I have Mj Kobe Kareem Russell and Duncan

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

I have Mj Kobe Kareem Russell and Duncan

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Cant argue with that logic, especially if Kobe comes back and is the player he was

I get so nervous watching any elimination game. I don't know how I will survive Pels' playoffs when they play them.

Leonard is a man.

He's getting every edgy penny, Leonard hit 'em straight to the head like Reggie Denny.