Pels Off season thread

Trade Ingram to Boston for Jaylen Brown.


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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

A combo of Sabonis/ Brogdon for Bledsoe/Adams and 3 or 4 1st round picks would be a worthy trade.

Acquiring Barnes and/or Hield would be the type of moves bottom feeders make. Barnes is historically mediocre and Hield is basically an overpaid JJ Redick. Sadly, both are still better than Bledsoe and Adams.

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Would love Brogdan and Sabonis

Here's the main takeaway, point though.

I GUARANTEE you that Zion's 2-8 will be better than the 2-8 this past year of Luka, Trae, Lillard, Randle, Ja, Steph, and and Beal. Way better than some of them, but definitely somewhat better than all of them. So, I dont want to hear him complain if he doesnt win. Because he will have the guys, and if he is that dude that others swear he is and will be, then the Pels will win. If they dont and he wants out, then I will happily take a monster ransom for him to pair with that already solid 2-8.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Here's the main takeaway, point though.

I GUARANTEE you that Zion's 2-8 will be better than the 2-8 this past year of Luka, Trae, Lillard, Randle, Ja, Steph, and and Beal. Way better than some of them, but definitely somewhat better than all of them. So, I dont want to hear him complain if he doesnt win. Because he will have the guys, and if he is that dude that others swear he is and will be, then the Pels will win. If they dont and he wants out, then I will happily take a monster ransom for him to pair with that already solid 2-8.

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The Hawks have a very solid and deep team, so I?d be very impressed if the Pels depth is better next year than the Hawks this year.

I said 2-8.

Yes, I admit the Hawks might have a better 9 and 10, but you win with your top 8. And it will be better, plus Zion is generational - even better than Trae I thought. Especially since he can at least give you something on the other end and was supposedly improving a lot on that end of the floor at the latter part of the year

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I said 2-8.

Yes, I admit the Hawks might have a better 9 and 10, but you win with your top 8. And it will be better, plus Zion is generational - even better than Trae I thought. Especially since he can at least give you something on the other end and was supposedly improving a lot on that end of the floor at the latter part of the year

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In comparison of the two teams? current rosters, I would say the Pels have the advantage at the 1 and 2 positions but are not in the same ballpark from 3-8. Zion should be allowed to carry his team in the clutch like Young has. I agree with Zion and his family that David Griffin/Van Gundy has held him back from developing that part of his game. The kid gloves need to come off.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

In comparison of the two teams? current rosters, I would say the Pels have the advantage at the 1 and 2 positions but are not in the same ballpark from 3-8. Zion should be allowed to carry his team in the clutch like Young has. I agree with Zion and his family that David Griffin/Van Gundy has held him back from developing that part of his game.

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Are you not reading what I am typing? How can you say they have an advantage at 3-8 when you dont know who the Pels 3-8 will be.

Again.... his 2-8 NEXT YEAR will be better than the Hawks this year

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Are you not reading what I am typing? How can you say they have an advantage at 3-8 when you dont know who the Pels 3-8 will be.

Again.... his 2-8 NEXT YEAR will be better than the Hawks this year

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Yes I know what you are saying. I am just adding to the discussion in comparing the rosters this year. I can’t argue against or agree with your statement about next year until I know what players you are hypothetically taking about.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Are you not reading what I am typing? How can you say they have an advantage at 3-8 when you dont know who the Pels 3-8 will be.

Again.... his 2-8 NEXT YEAR will be better than the Hawks this year

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If this is true we should be a really good team. To me a 4-5 seed but Griff has some work to do.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Are you not reading what I am typing? How can you say they have an advantage at 3-8 when you dont know who the Pels 3-8 will be.

Again.... his 2-8 NEXT YEAR will be better than the Hawks this year

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ok, I'll bite..... what will be the Pelicans 2-8 next year?

Shoulda taken Maxey last year

He seems built for the big shot

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Originally Posted by ramsters60

ok, I'll bite..... what will be the Pelicans 2-8 next year?

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thats not the point. I dont know. Griff dont know. But I know the guys Griff is talking to other GMs about and there is no way the 2-8 isnt much better than a lot of other stars had and did very well with this season

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Shoulda taken Maxey last year

He seems built for the big shot

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I had him #8 on my board and the top guy left when we picked. I have no clue how he fell that far. Not a perfect player but he will give you everything hes got every night

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Shoulda taken Maxey last year

He seems built for the big shot

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He looks like Kira. I think with more playing time both will be good.

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Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

Trade Ingram to Boston for Jaylen Brown.


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My thought would be to get into a 3 way with Boston and Washington. Beal and Tatum are good friends so maybe they try to make that happen. We can jump in with the picks. Would Bledsoe and a couple fillers plus 4 first to Washington be enough to get Brown and Robert Williams. (Of course Beal to Boston). Lonzo/brown could be a good backcourt or you could still move Lonzo for other players/depth. The good is Brown is really good, cheaper, and on a longer contract.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I had him #8 on my board and the top guy left when we picked. I have no clue how he fell that far. Not a perfect player but he will give you everything hes got every night

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I thought he went at 15, but 21? Got damn

I wonder if Zion and Ingram will actually play defense now that SVG is gone

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Are you not reading what I am typing? How can you say they have an advantage at 3-8 when you dont know who the Pels 3-8 will be.

Again.... his 2-8 NEXT YEAR will be better than the Hawks this year

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You must be very confident that Griffin can pull off a big deal for a high level player or players.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

You must be very confident that Griffin can pull off a big deal for a high level player or players.

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Its more that I know he wont stop until he does. I still dont think he adds a "star" but he isnt talking to teams about Bledsoe and #10. We are talking about him willing to part with 3, 4, 5, 6 firsts this offseason if it comes to it. If say OG and Sabonis cost him Bled, Adams and 6 picks, I am confident he would actually do it.

The roster around Zion will have plenty of talent. He will have no excuses

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Its more that I know he wont stop until he does. I still dont think he adds a "star" but he isnt talking to teams about Bledsoe and #10. We are talking about him willing to part with 3, 4, 5, 6 firsts this offseason if it comes to it. If say OG and Sabonis cost him Bled, Adams and 6 picks, I am confident he would actually do it.

The roster around Zion will have plenty of talent. He will have no excuses

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Who is OG???

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Originally Posted by mriguy

Who is OG???

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OG Anunoby. He would be a great fit.

Heat interested in Ingram?

https://heatnation.com/rumors/report...he-miami-heat/

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Its more that I know he wont stop until he does. I still dont think he adds a "star" but he isnt talking to teams about Bledsoe and #10. We are talking about him willing to part with 3, 4, 5, 6 firsts this offseason if it comes to it. If say OG and Sabonis cost him Bled, Adams and 6 picks, I am confident he would actually do it.

The roster around Zion will have plenty of talent. He will have no excuses

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So, he is ready to empty the warchest now? My concern is that he will not stop until he does. I worry he will get desperate and overpay for good, not great, players. He has shown that if he falls in love with a player (i.e. Adams), he will overpay without hesitation.

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Heat interested in Ingram?

https://heatnation.com/rumors/report...he-miami-heat/

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Just a fluff piece. What would they have to offer? They are not parting with Bam, so not much else.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

So, he is ready to empty the warchest now? My concern is that he will not stop until he does. I worry he will get desperate and overpay for good, not great, players. He has shown that if he falls in love with a player (i.e. Adams), he will overpay without hesitation.

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My worry too but he is not targeting one player I dislike

Id rather this approach where he pays big for real players than do the value buys he tried for Favors and Adams

[QUOTE=MichaelMcNamara;1559392]My worry too but he is not targeting one player I dislike

Id rather this approach where he pays big for real players than do the value buys he tried for Favors and Adams[/QUOTE

Besides Beal, Sabonis, and OG, can you share any other names that he’s interested in?

KAT, Siakam, Brogdon are a few more. And if we jump into the top 4 I am sure he will call about SGA and Fox too. This draft lotto is so important. Not only for us but there are other teams that could be effected with regard to whether they become buyers or sellers. Tuesday is a super important day

Thanks for the updates!

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Just a fluff piece. What would they have to offer? They are not parting with Bam, so not much else.

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Butler!

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ye4sbxcn

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yfxpjza5

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Its more that I know he wont stop until he does. I still dont think he adds a "star" but he isnt talking to teams about Bledsoe and #10. We are talking about him willing to part with 3, 4, 5, 6 firsts this offseason if it comes to it. If say OG and Sabonis cost him Bled, Adams and 6 picks, I am confident he would actually do it.

The roster around Zion will have plenty of talent. He will have no excuses

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If we went after OG and Sabonis does that mean Lonzo would be gone?

Lonzo
OG
Ingram
Zion
Sabonis

I could get behind this team. Or is Lonzo history and NAW starts until Kira is ready?

Lonzo all depends on the other 29 teams. Griff wont overpay to a crazy extent but he aint gonna just let the guy Ingram and Zion constantly praise walk away easily either. But I am starting to think more than ever that he will be back. If Griff is this aggressive prior to FA, he cant that allow guys to walk for nothing a few weeks later. And he is allowed to go into the tax this upcoming year, so if it comes to that - so be it

I think there is a good debate to be had about whether Sabonis should be a target. We have already seen Griff spend assets on bigs with no return. And while Sabonis is way better, I look at these playoffs and wonder how much he really moves the needle. Now....if his outside game progresses like say Vucevic, and you have a 3 level scorer who rebounds like crazy and is the 2nd best passing big man in the game, that could have huge value.

But if the 3 point shot never gets to at least the Brook Lopez level, its a waste of assets IMO. You are really gambling on him progressing big time as a shooter

Appreciate the updates MM. I love it! Bout time we stopped dragging our feet. However I fear he'll overpay in assets for a "good" player that doesn't fit with our roster build. But I'm open for anything that gets us into contention. I personally want Brogdon and Siakam. But I don't think we have the assets. Brogdon could be attainable, but getting Siakam would be the problem. But I'm excited to see what we get nonetheless.

That is if we trade Lonzo. If we keep him, then OG for sure.

I’d sacrifice my unborn if we could get KAT and OG

That is the fear. If Toronto and Indy say, "Nah, we arent going to sell. We are going to go into the season and see what we are and maybe we can talk in Feb"

Does Griff make minor upgrades and wait or does he go to the next tier and start overpaying for H Barnes and Buddy? Or to Detroit and Cleveland and overpay for Grant or Nance. THAT is my fear.

Yup. But on the bright side from having picks, Bledsoe and Adams on the block. (If we keep Lonzo) Hart could be viable as a S&T to package him as well. He has, at least, some value as that glue/hustle guy.

The huge variable is Tuesday

I dont even think of the players in the draft. We arent going to draft one unless its Cade. But moving up from 10 to 2, 3, or 4 is really the equivalent of adding more picks to the war chest. For example, if you are at 10, it takes your 2021 pick and 2-3 more to get OG. If you get #3 or 4, it only takes your 2021 pick. Basically, Tuesday decides how much of our war chest we have to open. Has nothing to do with what player we draft in 2021

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

But moving up from 10 to 2, 3, or 4 is really the equivalent of adding more picks to the war chest. For example, if you are at 10, it takes your 2021 pick and 2-3 more to get OG. If you get #3 or 4, it only takes your 2021 pick. Basically, Tuesday decides how much of our war chest we have to open. Has nothing to do with what player we draft in 2021

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I mean we kinda saw this with the AD trade. Lakers moved up to #4 which helped solidify their assets to trade for AD. Pelicans then used #4 (and #57) to end up with #8, #17, #35 and getting off Solomon Hill's contract.

IMO no one is going to give Griffin fair value this summer. This is a sellers market we're seeing right now with how wide open the championship hunt is and how many teams have disappointed. There are going to be a lot of calls around the league this summer and the asking prices are going to get wild. Especially when the front office feels it's someone they can take advantage of calling.

I dont want the pelicans to make Demps moves. The Adams move was a Demps move. It's not too late to start building right. Draft well, make good between the margins moves. Trade Lonzo for a TPE and then be an opportunistic third team in trades.

Bledsoe has to go, but I wouldn't hate just swapping him and some 2nds for another expiring player that has a better attitude (let's say Aminu) and can still be used in a trade at the deadline when there will be a smaller group of able buyers and the pelicans can better evaluate what they need under a new coach with a few games under their belt.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

IMO no one is going to give Griffin fair value this summer. This is a sellers market we're seeing right now with how wide open the championship hunt is and how many teams have disappointed. There are going to be a lot of calls around the league this summer and the asking prices are going to get wild. Especially when the front office feels it's someone they can take advantage of calling.

I dont want the pelicans to make Demps moves. The Adams move was a Demps move. It's not too late to start building right. Draft well, make good between the margins moves. Trade Lonzo for a TPE and then be an opportunistic third team in trades.

Bledsoe has to go, but I wouldn't hate just swapping him and some 2nds for another expiring player that has a better attitude (let's say Aminu) and can still be used in a trade at the deadline when there will be a smaller group of able buyers and the pelicans can better evaluate what they need under a new coach with a few games under their belt.

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I agree with all of this. But I dont think Griff will have that patience. And where I land is that I'd rather he pay 120% of a B+ player than pay 100% for a C+ player. He is going to have to overpay but you have to factor in increasing the chances of keeping Zion as part of that over pay. Maybe it costs you 3 firsts for OG but if it works out, you have also increased the odds of keeping Zion by 15% as well, which now makes it an underpay.

Not saying I am on board with this line of thinking, but it will be how they justify it.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

IMO no one is going to give Griffin fair value this summer. This is a sellers market we're seeing right now with how wide open the championship hunt is and how many teams have disappointed. There are going to be a lot of calls around the league this summer and the asking prices are going to get wild. Especially when the front office feels it's someone they can take advantage of calling.

I dont want the pelicans to make Demps moves. The Adams move was a Demps move. It's not too late to start building right. Draft well, make good between the margins moves. Trade Lonzo for a TPE and then be an opportunistic third team in trades.

Bledsoe has to go, but I wouldn't hate just swapping him and some 2nds for another expiring player that has a better attitude (let's say Aminu) and can still be used in a trade at the deadline when there will be a smaller group of able buyers and the pelicans can better evaluate what they need under a new coach with a few games under their belt.

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I just hope that our failures are a reality check to ownership and Management that you can’t rush a project like this and expect great results without luck. Griffin’s tone definitely changed from win now to development as the year went on, but it wouldn’t surprise me if we still make a bold misstep a la Adams again.

Adams was not a "win now" move. Dont you think Atlanta wished they had an Adams right now? The problem is the Pelicans don't have a real stretch big to take his place against smaller teams. You need BOTH.

Further, Adams didn't get extended here on some 3 - 4 year deal. He's got this year and will be expiring next year. That's it. By that time you hope Jaxson is ready or you need to go find another big.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I agree with all of this. But I dont think Griff will have that patience. And where I land is that I'd rather he pay 120% of a B+ player than pay 100% for a C+ player. He is going to have to overpay but you have to factor in increasing the chances of keeping Zion as part of that over pay. Maybe it costs you 3 firsts for OG but if it works out, you have also increased the odds of keeping Zion by 15% as well, which now makes it an underpay.

Not saying I am on board with this line of thinking, but it will be how they justify it.

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I always thought gathering a ton of picks ostensibly was to throw so many assets at a GM for a semi star that they can't say no. Not necessarily for the superstar

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Originally Posted by AusPel

I always thought gathering a ton of picks ostensibly was to throw so many assets at a GM for a semi star that they can't say no. Not necessarily for the superstar

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Yeah, you just dont want to do that and not have enough for when the star is available. Like, look at Brooklyn - they could have had Jrue this offseason but pulled back their offer and gambled that Harden would eventually shake loose. If we unload the chest for OG and Sabonis and then a few months later a real stud comes available that we couldve had, there would be some regret. Why I kind of hope they just go spend assets on one guy because even if you give up 3 picks, you still have 8 available plus a good amount of swap rights over the next 7 years, plus guys like NAW, Kira, and Hayes who hopefully take a step up

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Adams was not a "win now" move. Dont you think Atlanta wished they had an Adams right now? The problem is the Pelicans don't have a real stretch big to take his place against smaller teams. You need BOTH.

Further, Adams didn't get extended here on some 3 - 4 year deal. He's got this year and will be expiring next year. That's it. By that time you hope Jaxson is ready or you need to go find another big.

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Pels got the same production they got from Adams from a guy who signed a partially guaranteed minimum. It wasnt a "win now" move but it cost a good amount when you factor in salary, assets, and opportunity costs. And now saying there is "only" two years left like we couldnt get a MUCH better player for 2/35 this offseason is disingenuous. It remains one of the most perplexing decisions I have ever seen a GM make, just days after making such a great original trade giving up Jrue

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Pels got the same production they got from Adams from a guy who signed a partially guaranteed minimum. It wasnt a "win now" move but it cost a good amount when you factor in salary, assets, and opportunity costs. And now saying there is "only" two years left like we couldnt get a MUCH better player for 2/35 this offseason is disingenuous. It remains one of the most perplexing decisions I have ever seen a GM make, just days after making such a great original trade giving up Jrue

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**** it makes me mad.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

**** it makes me mad.

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Our only hope is that someone else is as foolish as Griff (or some of the fans on this board) and they think Adams has some value. But I just think other centers who are better and cheaper can be had this offseason so why would anyone take on Adams, even if he was free?

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Adams was not a "win now" move. Dont you think Atlanta wished they had an Adams right now? The problem is the Pelicans don't have a real stretch big to take his place against smaller teams. You need BOTH.

Further, Adams didn't get extended here on some 3 - 4 year deal. He's got this year and will be expiring next year. That's it. By that time you hope Jaxson is ready or you need to go find another big.

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I've been screaming stretch five since we won the Zion sweepstakes. Nothing changes. If Atlanta wants to swap Gallinari for Adams, where to I sign?

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Pels got the same production they got from Adams from a guy who signed a partially guaranteed minimum. It wasnt a "win now" move but it cost a good amount when you factor in salary, assets, and opportunity costs. And now saying there is "only" two years left like we couldnt get a MUCH better player for 2/35 this offseason is disingenuous. It remains one of the most perplexing decisions I have ever seen a GM make, just days after making such a great original trade giving up Jrue

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Absolutely agree.

...and both had hands of stone.

To say the Pelicans got the same production from Adams as they did some 2/35 JAG is a line of horse manure. Straight up. Not everything Adams does you will find in some traditional box score. All the ways he cleared the paint for Zion to easily score is a stat you have to dig for. His on/off contributions on defense are evident, but you have to dig for that too.

It would have been a complete waste of time to go sign someone like Aron Baynes (somebody on here suggested this...), who might have played himself out of the league. His waste of salary doesn't do much when this team already has all 3 exceptions at their disposal. You don't make stupid decisions like that to tank your season before it starts when you have to deal with young players that actually want to win games. It can't be done.

Adams was just one necessary piece and sometimes you cant fill every single hole in one off season. They couldn't find a proper stretch big last year, so now you STILL have the flexibility to find one this year, Adams on the team or not. Sabonis or Myles Turner are still very much in play among others.

And even last year, I said the team knew all of its options when they signed Adams. And we now know they very much could have traded Redick, because Redick asked them to. The Pelicans CHOSE not to do that.

Signing Adams didnt hamstring them. That was their choice to not move Redick. Whether you agree with that or not is another discussion. I would have absolutely moved Redick back then.