AD trade scenarios...

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Grizzlies haven't put themselves in the trade conversation. They said they're taking Morant, and I believe that the reason for that is because they want Ja Morant. They're in a rebuild too, they don't attract free agents, and they just drafted a future big in Jaren Jackson. It makes sense they want a dynamic PG to go with him as Conley ages out.

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But why leak the info? So people start enquiring about Conley? Or it to be in play for AD

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Originally Posted by AusPel

But why leak the info? So people start enquiring about Conley? Or it to be in play for AD

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Exactly, Memphis did not announce that to be nice to NY and others. They did it to let everyone know that if they want Morant, they have to pay well.

Who's to say the Grizzlies actually leaked that info instead of Morant's group? The motivation could be just as simple as people wanting to know ahead of the draft who's going where. The reports I read came from Woj saying basically "The Grizzlies have zeroed in on Morant with the 2nd pick". That to me doesn't scream agenda as much as it's simply Woj wanting to break the news as soon as he can.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Who's to say the Grizzlies actually leaked that info instead of Morant's group? The motivation could be just as simple as people wanting to know ahead of the draft who's going where. The reports I read came from Woj saying basically "The Grizzlies have zeroed in on Morant with the 2nd pick". That to me doesn't scream agenda as much as it's simply Woj wanting to break the news as soon as he can.

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The Grizzlies told everybody in Chicago they were taking Morant. It's likely this is to get other teams thinking about a draft day deal for Conley.

If a Conley deal happens, as promising as Ja is, it probably makes the Griz really bad next year as teams run by first year point guards tend to struggle. This improves the odds of Boston's Memphis pick turning into a great pick a little ways down the road.

They could keep Conley and pair him with Morant, but then, why overtly state they're taking Ja if that's the case?

They didn't need to make people aware they are moving Conley, they listened to offers for him at he deadline and the only reason they didn't trade him then was because they didn't like the offers they heard.

Of course they are still willing to move him.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Who's to say the Grizzlies actually leaked that info instead of Morant's group? The motivation could be just as simple as people wanting to know ahead of the draft who's going where. The reports I read came from Woj saying basically "The Grizzlies have zeroed in on Morant with the 2nd pick". That to me doesn't scream agenda as much as it's simply Woj wanting to break the news as soon as he can.

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Not sure if it was Woj or not, but a report I read was that Memphis was making it known to those in Chicago. Seems like the indication was that it was Memphis sending out the info.

This was the earliest tweet I could find on it, came from Woj after the draft.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1...181625346?s=19

I suppose it could be looked at from either way, he states it like a matter of fact. It certainly doesn't seem like he has any hint they are doing this to try and increase the return in some type of trade for Ja.

I think we could get Ja if we trade with the Knicks for the 3rd, and swap the 3 for the 2 (and include a 2010 1st rounder) to move up for Ja. We also can make a swap for the 4 if we deal with the Lakers. Future would be way too bright if we come out of this with Zion, Ja, and the young players that we'd get in the trade. Add in the extra picks that we'd get to use as assets.

And Memphis could get Garland at 3 or 4.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

I think we could get Ja if we trade with the Knicks for the 3rd, and swap the 3 for the 2 (and include a 2010 1st rounder) to move up for Ja. We also can make a swap for the 4 if we deal with the Lakers. Future would be way too bright if we come out of this with Zion, Ja, and the young players that we'd get in the trade. Add in the extra picks that we'd get to use as assets.

And Memphis could get Garland at 3 or 4.

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Why would they do that? Why would they trade down to take a less promising player at the PG position, when they could just keep their own pick and get the better prospect at the same position? It would literally just downgrading for little purpose other than to satisfy us.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Why would they do that? Why would they trade down to take a less promising player at the PG position, when they could just keep their own pick and get the better prospect at the same position? It would literally just downgrading for little purpose other than to satisfy us.

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he said include a first rounder, so i think he is saying trade the #3 pick and a 1st rounder next year for the 2nd overall pick this year

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

he said include a first rounder, so i think he is saying trade the #3 pick and a 1st rounder next year for the 2nd overall pick this year

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Aside from the fact that we desperately need to get out of the mindset of just chucking first round picks at things, I still don't think that would be something Memphis would be interested in. The entire point of the draft is to get a spot to pick a player you want on your team as they develop. If they're sat in front of that, guaranteed, in Ja Morant, why take a downgrade in the hopes that next year you'll get the chance to be in the position you're already in right now?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Aside from the fact that we desperately need to get out of the mindset of just chucking first round picks at things, I still don't think that would be something Memphis would be interested in. The entire point of the draft is to get a spot to pick a player you want on your team as they develop. If they're sat in front of that, guaranteed, in Ja Morant, why take a downgrade in the hopes that next year you'll get the chance to be in the position you're already in right now?

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wasn't saying i agreed with him, or that i dont. I guess it just matters how much a team values Morant. You have Barrett as your #2 player in the draft right?

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

wasn't saying i agreed with him, or that i dont. I guess it just matters how much a team values Morant. You have Barrett as your #2 player in the draft right?

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Yeah, personally.

What about a deal where we tell the Knicks they can have AD, but we want the #3 pick which they have, the #5 pick the Cavs have, and Mitchell Robinson. They trade knox and DSJ and a future pick for the #5 to cleveland, and we draft Barrett at 3 and either Reddish, Culver or Hunter at 5.

Pels get #3 pick, #5 pick, Mitchell Robinson, and the knicks 1st next year

This a possibility?

Jrue
Barrett
Reddish
Zion
Mitchell

This would give us Jrue who is an allstar in my book, 3 extremely promising young players to bring up, and a defensive anchor at center

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Yeah, personally.

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not disagreeing, the more I watch Barrett the more I like him, I thought he was just a scorer, but he is sometimes quite the playmaker, i've seen him take people off the dribble and create for others, could be DeMar Derozan with a 3 ball.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Why would they do that? Why would they trade down to take a less promising player at the PG position, when they could just keep their own pick and get the better prospect at the same position? It would literally just downgrading for little purpose other than to satisfy us.

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That's your opinion and you're entitled to it (that Ja is the better prospect). But Garland was the top PG heading into the season, and his injury along wit Morant's rise pushed Garland down to a whopping #2 prospect. Maybe... juuuust maybe... the Grizz feel Garland is the better prospect.

Maybe if the Grizz felt both Ja and Garland are equal in their eyes, if they can get more assets just to move down and still take THEIR guy... why is that such a terrible idea?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Aside from the fact that we desperately need to get out of the mindset of just chucking first round picks at things, I still don't think that would be something Memphis would be interested in. The entire point of the draft is to get a spot to pick a player you want on your team as they develop. If they're sat in front of that, guaranteed, in Ja Morant, why take a downgrade in the hopes that next year you'll get the chance to be in the position you're already in right now?

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You're gonna get extra picks from whoever gets AD, so giving up a 1 isn't al that bad of a move if you REALLY want to move up.

But at the end of the day I don't think it'll happen, but I was just saying that if we really wanted Ja there's a way to get him.... IF Memphis would oblige.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

What about a deal where we tell the Knicks they can have AD, but we want the #3 pick which they have, the #5 pick the Cavs have, and Mitchell Robinson. They trade knox and DSJ and a future pick for the #5 to cleveland, and we draft Barrett at 3 and either Reddish, Culver or Hunter at 5.

Pels get #3 pick, #5 pick, Mitchell Robinson, and the knicks 1st next year

This a possibility?

Jrue
Barrett
Reddish
Zion
Mitchell

This would give us Jrue who is an allstar in my book, 3 extremely promising young players to bring up, and a defensive anchor at center

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Not even close to a possibility, Cleveland would laugh if you called with that offer

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

You're gonna get extra picks from whoever gets AD, so giving up a 1 isn't al that bad of a move if you REALLY want to move up.

But at the end of the day I don't think it'll happen, but I was just saying that if we really wanted Ja there's a way to get him.... IF Memphis would oblige.

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It would take quite a bit to get Memphis to move off of Ja..

Something like:
#3
DSJ
Future 1st

Or

#4, Ball, Kuzma, future 1st for Conley and #2 (Conley to LAL in this one)

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Originally Posted by soggymoss

Not even close to a possibility, Cleveland would laugh if you called with that offer

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Well I wonder if they offered DSJ, Knox, Mitchell Robinson and the Dallas 1st next year, I bet they would listen then. We would then have to run with Okafor at center or sign a free agent one, but i have no idea if any decent ones are available.

Why can't we just go after Kyrie Irving in FA?

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Originally Posted by WhyHornetsWhy

Why can't we just go after Kyrie Irving in FA?

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Cause we have $15m in cap space.

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Originally Posted by soggymoss

It would take quite a bit to get Memphis to move off of Ja..

Something like:
#3
DSJ
Future 1st

Or

#4, Ball, Kuzma, future 1st for Conley and #2 (Conley to LAL in this one)

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Maybe Dallas screwed the Hawks by only giving up a top 5 protected 1 (this year's) to move up 2 spots, so I'm basing my idea on that trade. But man I'm more excited about the haul we're getting for AD than I am knowing that we'll get Zion.

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Originally Posted by WhyHornetsWhy

Why can't we just go after Kyrie Irving in FA?

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Landon made a comment that pretty much said we're gonna build with young talent and not fish for the big free agents. I wouldn't go after Kyrie anyway but I like what he said about building for the future.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Cause we have $15m in cap space.

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A few trades and moves here and there would free up more space, though. Randel opting out and such. Skip said we'd have around 25-30M.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

Landon made a comment that pretty much said we're gonna build with young talent and not fish for the big free agents. I wouldn't go after Kyrie anyway but I like what he said about building for the future.

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If signing Kyrie means keeping Davis, then I will do it 10/10 times. An Irving, Holiday, Zion, AD, shooters off the bench = championship.

Especially if KD leaves, then the West is wide open.

sounds to me like the pelicans wanna build thru young players and the draft

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

sounds to me like the pelicans wanna build thru young players and the draft

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Pretty much...

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“Sure, we want to win, but want to build this organization the right way, with the right people, and have sustainable excellence,” Langdon said, alluding to some of the discussion he had with Griffin and owner Gayle Benson about the Pelicans’ direction. “That’s something I think is important. I don’t think you can be in a win-now mode, when you have to develop a culture and there are a lot of things that need to be done, bringing in the right people on the bus and making sure we’re headed in the right direction. I think you can’t skip steps. If you look back, a lot of organizations when they try to skip steps, it puts them behind.”

Langdon also emphasized the importance of developing players internally and identifying contributors who have the potential to improve, something that will be part of the Pelicans’ philosophy.

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https://www.nba.com/pelicans/news/ne...ble-excellence

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

Pretty much...



https://www.nba.com/pelicans/news/ne...ble-excellence

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It's contradicting, though. Landon says they want to build the team young and thru the draft. But how do you build a young team while also wanting to keep a veteran like AD and pursuing to have him stay?

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Originally Posted by WhyHornetsWhy

A few trades and moves here and there would free up more space, though. Randel opting out and such. Skip said we'd have around 25-30M.

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Skip is incorrect.

The salary cap is $109m. Minus Randle's $9m, plus the 120% of the rookie scale contract that Zion will get at around $10m. AD's contract included, or roughly equal to AD's contract taken back in trade puts us at around $90m. Then you have cap holds which add up to around another $4 or $5m, I forget exactly. That's pretty much around $95m of the cap taken up, out of $109m. Leaves us with somewhere in the region of $15m.

Plus, signing Kyrie even if we did have the money would be a bad idea because he's a ball dominant, score first PG who is a bad leader, a bad influence on youth, and an locker room malcontent.

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Originally Posted by WhyHornetsWhy

It's contradicting, though. Landon says they want to build the team young and thru the draft. But how do you build a young team while also wanting to keep a veteran like AD and pursuing to have him stay?

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i'm sure he wants to keep AD just like I wanna win the lottery, would be nice, but not gonna happen.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

Maybe Dallas screwed the Hawks by only giving up a top 5 protected 1 (this year's) to move up 2 spots, so I'm basing my idea on that trade. But man I'm more excited about the haul we're getting for AD than I am knowing that we'll get Zion.

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You would have to look at what they're getting in return..

DSJ is just an average player, and you're pretty much tying AD to the trade, so they would have to assume the pick will be a non lottery pick, which drops that future pick value ALOT..

Everyone assumed Dallas would be one of the worst teams again this season, therefore their pick holds alot more value..

The same applies to LAL pick

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Originally Posted by WhyHornetsWhy

It's contradicting, though. Landon says they want to build the team young and thru the draft. But how do you build a young team while also wanting to keep a veteran like AD and pursuing to have him stay?

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Anthony Davis is barely 26 years old, and he was drafted by this team. He is young, home-grown talent.

I tell the Knicks if you want AD, find a way to get another top 7 pick, whatever you gotta do.

Zion at 1, Barrett at 3, and either Reddish, Culver, or Hunter at 5, 6, or 7.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Well I wonder if they offered DSJ, Knox, Mitchell Robinson and the Dallas 1st next year, I bet they would listen then. We would then have to run with Okafor at center or sign a free agent one, but i have no idea if any decent ones are available.

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They would listen, but they would still hang up the phone..

You're offering quantity rather than quality, much like LAL tried to do with us last year for AD

AD is absolutely worth the #3 and #5 pick, and mitchell robinson, actually he's worth more, but I just dont think its possible.

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Originally Posted by WhyHornetsWhy

It's contradicting, though. Landon says they want to build the team young and thru the draft. But how do you build a young team while also wanting to keep a veteran like AD and pursuing to have him stay?

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Someone on TV said it best... you take that meeting with AD... knowing full well that he's gonna still ask to be traded. That way you "save face" and show everyone that hey.. we tried to keep him and he still wants out. ANd you trade him for young players and asets that you can develop.

Even if AD says that he wants to stay its not like you're bringing in a guy from outside of the organization. The Pelicans developed AD into who he is... and he's still 26 years old. He can grow with Zion and the other young players that they bring in.

Either way we're in a win-win. We can't go wrong by trading him, and we can't go wrong by keeping him.

the sad part is AD is worth the #1 pick this year, and the #1 pick next year, but we won't get that kind of value because he wants to leave and wont sign an extension with certain teams. Really disliking him.

Any benefit of keeping AD and trading him prior to the deadline? I am all about a clean start but didn't know if there may be a benefit to this...I just do not see any however.

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Originally Posted by Hoochican

Any benefit of keeping AD and trading him prior to the deadline? I am all about a clean start but didn't know if there may be a benefit to this...I just do not see any however.

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Not that I can think of. Cuts his time with a new team short, makes him less likely to resign so they'll be less likely to give up key assets. Also keeps the drama around the team as well as the uncertainty, no need for that. Don't want to bring that in to the new era.

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Originally Posted by Hoochican

Any benefit of keeping AD and trading him prior to the deadline? I am all about a clean start but didn't know if there may be a benefit to this...I just do not see any however.

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If AD opted into his final year, yeah there would be some benefit to that. However assuming he doesn't, no there isn't really any benefit.

You could argue it allows him to get a taste of playing next to Zion but the risk is far too great without him opting in.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

If AD opted into his final year, yeah there would be some benefit to that. However assuming he doesn't, no there isn't really any benefit.

You could argue it allows him to get a taste of playing next to Zion but the risk is far too great without him opting in.

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I don't see AD opting in for any reason. He's due so much because of the supermax clause if he stays and he's still due a big raise if he opts out where he's traded to. Unless there's something I'm over looking it's in Davis' best interest to opt out under all circumstances.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I don't see AD opting in for any reason. He's due so much because of the supermax clause if he stays and he's still due a big raise if he opts out where he's traded to. Unless there's something I'm over looking it's in Davis' best interest to opt out under all circumstances.

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Well the main benefit to AD is that no other team can offer him the supermax so if he's willing to opt into his final year (at an extremely high number anyway) and he ends up liking what he sees then he gets to sign for the supermax and make even more money than he could elsewhere.

It would allow AD to basically give the team a year to convince him. I mean if he's already willing to give up millions in the supermax it's not that far out there to assume he'd think about opting into his final year and give up a few million for one season with the prospect of making 20m more over the next 4.

Keep in mind I'm not arguing that's what he will or should do. I'm just answering the question of what would be the benefit of AD playing with the team next year. The benefit is he could make tens of millions more if he likes it here and signs the supermax.

Honestly I don’t want AD to stay, even if he changes his mind.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Well the main benefit to AD is that no other team can offer him the supermax so if he's willing to opt into his final year (at an extremely high number anyway) and he ends up liking what he sees then he gets to sign for the supermax and make even more money than he could elsewhere.

It would allow AD to basically give the team a year to convince him. I mean if he's already willing to give up millions in the supermax it's not that far out there to assume he'd think about opting into his final year and give up a few million for one season with the prospect of making 20m more over the next 4.

Keep in mind I'm not arguing that's what he will or should do. I'm just answering the question of what would be the benefit of AD playing with the team next year. The benefit is he could make tens of millions more if he likes it here and signs the supermax.

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One more advantage for AD and the Pels if he opts in and signs supermax next season, is that the supermax wont hit the books until the 2021-22 season, and with Moore and Hill dropping off the books, we could go into 20-21 with a max slot available, even though it will be a weak FA class

The Knicks guys are so young and have played on such a a bad team, it's hard to know what their true potential might be. Going just by the numbers to date, you wouldn't value them very highly, but, again, we've seen numerous examples of young guys getting washed out too soon. The best sample size is probably on Smith, Jr. going back to his days with the Mavs where he started as a rookie and showed potential before falling out of favor with Rick Carlisle, which doesn't seem that hard for a player to do. He's a great athlete and actually distributes the ball ok, but his outside shooting is a question mark (red flagged by a low FT % as well). Robinson has the look of an an aggressive, athletic rim defender/runner, but doesn't give you any shooting threat at all and that may be a no go for a pairing with Zion. Knox has the size and the physical tools, but didn't really put it together in his rookie campaign, so that's a pure potential play. Obviously the best asset you'd get in the Knicks deal is the 3rd overall pick this year + future Dallas/Knicks first rounders. Of course it's possible all these guys might benefit from playing in Gentry's fast-paced system and with a veteran like Holiday, but no question that they are less proven commodities than even the Lakers' young guys. Glad we have Griff and Langdon on board to make these evaluations. I'm happy to roll with their judgement on these players' potential...

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Anthony Davis is barely 26 years old, and he was drafted by this team. He is young, home-grown talent.

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But I made a statement that we should go after Kyrie, and got a reply saying that Griffin and Lang is wanting to go young instead.

Kyrie is only 27.

So, I had to make a comment questioning on why are we trying to keep AD then if he's a veteran if we were looking to go young?

So, age really isn't the issue.

There are 7 players who are a cut above everyone in this draft, actually I take it back there are tiers, but after those 7 I feel it drops tremendously.

Tier 1
Zion

Tier 2
Morant
Barrett

Tier 3
Garland
Reddish
Hunter
Culver

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Originally Posted by WhyHornetsWhy

But I made a statement that we should go after Kyrie, and got a reply saying that Griffin and Lang is wanting to go young instead.

Kyrie is only 27.

So, I had to make a comment questioning on why are we trying to keep AD then if he's a veteran if we were looking to go young?

So, age really isn't the issue.

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There is a way to get Kyrie. Have to move hill, Moore, and renounce most of our players (anyone not named Jrue, Frank, woods, Okafor, Davis, and Zion). We’d have roughly 39 million and have the MLE so it’s looks possible. I wouldn’t be opposed to this kind of move. Kyrie, Jrue, Davis, and Zion is pretty good start to finishing 5.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

There are 7 players who are a cut above everyone in this draft, actually I take it back there are tiers, but after those 7 I feel it drops tremendously.

Tier 1
Zion

Tier 2
Morant
Barrett

Tier 3
Garland
Reddish
Hunter
Culver

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I'm similar but I'd put it something like this:

Zion............................
Morant..
RJ......
Culver, Garland, Hunter..
The rest