Game Day Thread! Pelicans vs. Clippers 12/06/14

Why is Cunningham shooting from so far out all the time? He must not be able to dribble like talking about.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

At least we don't have that Omri Casspi Guy, and his wild political beliefs stinking it up on the court.

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was there any source to even back that up?

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Originally Posted by Inner_GI

You can be a defensive player that can atleast be a threat on pick and roll. Just look at Deandre Jordan.

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And look how much he is about to get paid.

Ah, just a 20 pt loss.

Does anyone know what we have lost games by on this west coast trip? Our we losing by 21ppg? Or is it more?

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Tyreke 13-6-4 in only 24 minutes with ZERO turnovers. Garbage.

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For most of the game, absolutely. Poor decision making throughout the game, got Davis in early foul trouble, kept losing Reddick in the first quarter and then Barnes in the second half.

Look beyond the stats, he had a poor game with good basic stats. 1-4 from 3. At least two of those were awful attempts. Fell in love with his jumper, forced the issue. Went 5-13.

I mean are people just watching the box score of these games and not the action on the court?

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Originally Posted by Kibner

Gordon has proven to be a pretty big injury issue.

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Enough for us to lose these games? No sir.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Enough for us to lose these games? No sir.

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The offense immediately went to **** and the defense got even worse.

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Originally Posted by speedyG

was there any source to even back that up?

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Probably from the same source that says AD will be unhappy if we fire Monty.


The source being Monty.

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Originally Posted by Kibner

And look how much he is about to get paid.

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I would gladly pay 1-3M more a year for Jordan instead of asik. It doesn't matter because as long as Gordon is on the team and not playing we are a bottom 10 team in the league.

I hate saying that Gordon is that important. It's so annoying.

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Originally Posted by Kibner

The offense immediately went to **** and the defense got even worse.

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For the last 2 years we have been *****ing and moaning trying to get rid of him, now he is keeping us afloat?

Move over KD, Gordon is the real MVP.

The biggest let down of this season other than our record?

JRUE HOLIDAY. Save for one or two games, he has been ridiculously hesitant and unimpressive. I can name 10 point guards better than him. Wow. He is so inconsistent, lacks PG leadership and has extreme tunnel vision. Tired of it.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

For the last 2 years we have been *****ing and moaning trying to get rid of him, now he is keeping us afloat?

Move over KD, Gordon is the real MVP.

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I was trying to get some reverse psychology mojo going when I even hinted at him being worth keeping.

But no. He was defending well, but nowhere near what I thought he'd be when we traded for him. No matter.

He's on the mend with a busted shoulder. Can't help us. Gotta forge on and whatnot.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

For the last 2 years we have been *****ing and moaning trying to get rid of him, now he is keeping us afloat?

Move over KD, Gordon is the real MVP.

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Lets no be extreme to try and disprove a valid point. Gordon did a lot of good for this team while he was healthy this year. Great off the ball, good decision-making for the most point, unselfish play, decent distributor, tenacious defender, willing passer. Got off to a rocky start and was on a crazy hot streak before his injury. The one knock on him to start the season was his shots weren't falling. Once they did what was there really to criticize on the court, given the role he was asked to play?

Gordon has managed to be a multimillionaire while playing less than half of our games since he came to NO. He's done nothing but cost this team money and wins.

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Originally Posted by iNolaNightmare

The biggest let down of this season other than our record?

JRUE HOLIDAY. Save for one or two games, he has been ridiculously hesitant and unimpressive. I can name 10 point guards better than him. Wow. He is so inconsistent, lacks PG leadership and has extreme tunnel vision. Tired of it.

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Have to wonder if our guards troubles are player limitations or coaching limitations? Either way if this ship doesnt get righted soon I can't imagine that Benson retains either Demps or Monty after this season at this rate. For a guy so clearly on the "win now" bandwagon I can't see him standing for more losses like this.

I think Jrue is just above average Point guard. He doesnt have great playmaking instincts or the killer scorer mentality of a Lillard. Seems like he should be better

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Lets no be extreme to try and disprove a valid point. Gordon did a lot of good for this team while he was healthy this year. Great off the ball, good decision-making for the most point, unselfish play, decent distributor, tenacious defender, willing passer. Got off to a rocky start and was on a crazy hot streak before his injury. The one knock on him to start the season was his shots weren't falling. Once they did what was there really to criticize on the court, given the role he was asked to play?

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Sure, but that isn't winning you this game, or the game the night before. He might make those losses maybe 12 or 15 pt losses, but he isn't a deciding factor. This team is just lost.

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Originally Posted by Hornets2013

Gordon has managed to be a multimillionaire while playing less than half of our games since he came to NO. He's done nothing but cost this team money and wins.

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There is not a single Pelicans fan that doesnt want him gone or to go back in time and let him walk but that doesnt dismiss that this team is better with him healthy and he was a positive player for us this season.

From a GM perspective he costs us games. From a in-season team perspective he is a positive asset that this team can't seem to get over losing.

Mekel is averaging like 20 apg per 36. goat

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Originally Posted by speedyG

I think Jrue is just above average Point guard. He doesnt have great playmaking instincts or the killer scorer mentality of a Lillard. Seems like he should be better

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Talent wise? Yes. But this year? No. He's not. He's average. Average guards contribute more than he does. See Greivis Vasquez 2012-2013

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Have to wonder if our guards troubles are player limitations or coaching limitations? Either way if this ship doesnt get righted soon I can't imagine that Benson retains either Demps or Monty after this season at this rate. For a guy so clearly on the "win now" bandwagon I can't see him standing for more losses like this.

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If we don't see improvement, and those two stay, my faith in Benson as a competent NBA owner will fall off a cliff.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Tyreke 13-6-4 in only 24 minutes with ZERO turnovers. Garbage.

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This doesn't tell much of the story. He has the ball in hands so often (as it should be) and has a lot of responsibility to make good decisions that set himself or teammates up to score. He has assumed the role of our playmaker and too often he makes the obvious mistake, whether it be over penetrating, taking forced shots, missing open men... Whatever.
Don't get me wrong, he is extremely talented and can seem to make anything on the basketball court work (except maybe a consistent jump shot, which is fine), and will have games where everything seems to work and Tyreke is the man. But can he be the guy that can consistenty play to his and his teammates strengths? Can he be the guy that can provide useful and even beneficial on an off shooting night and make the team better? This is what we need from him and I don't think he is capable of it. ...and his defense is nothing to ride home about.

But those per 36...

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Sure, but that isn't winning you this game, or the game the night before. He might make those losses maybe 12 or 15 pt losses, but he isn't a deciding factor. This team is just lost.

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I think Gordon on Redick and Evans on Barnes could have been a huge difference maker early in this game. Gordon doesnt get beaten like a schoolgirl that quarter like Evans and Babbitt did if he was playing and healthy. Salmons doesnt even see the floor.

I think it is Monty who is lost. He had his rotations down to a science to start the season and they worked and made sense. But after Gordon has gone down he hasn't been able to figure anything out to re-jigger the offense and rotations to maintain offensive effectiveness and slow the bleeding from the bench. He just seems too overwhelmed with all the variables that aren't operating optimally. He was ok when one or two players were underperforming and it was a quick lineup switch but now that the team is struggling as a whole he seems to be lost on what to do.

Its not exactly a new theme with Monty either. It was one of the biggest criticisms coming into the season.

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Originally Posted by iNolaNightmare

Talent wise? Yes. But this year? No. He's not. He's average. Average guards contribute more than he does. See Greivis Vasquez 2012-2013

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You're really gonna just throw Vasquez out there? So in this criticism, defense doesn't exist now?

I mean, name a better or equally good on-ball defender at PG...

What I liked about Greivis was he was so cocky, he wanted to be the man but still played within himself. But no I definitely wouldn't take him over Jrue

Have people forgotten already how Vasquez's defense drove us all close to insanity?

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

You're really gonna just throw Vasquez out there? So in this criticism, defense doesn't exist now?

I mean, name a better or equally good on-ball defender at PG...

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I still think Jrue just doesnt feel comfortable in any role right now and is hesitating, I'm not ready to give up on him, but I also think he has been underwhelming defensively this season. He had a handful of absolutely stellar games but he seems to follow them up with a string of head scratching or lackluster performances. I also think that a coach like Monty that seems to have lived and died by having a PG running the show every possession is struggling to run a 2, sometimes 3 guard offense.

But you are right, Vasquez makes Nash and Calderon look like all-defensive PG's.

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Originally Posted by Hercule

Have people forgotten already how Vasquez's defense drove us all close to insanity?

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Apparently. And with Tyreke, I think people forget how no one, and I mean, NO ONE could get to the basket without dribbling it off their feet.

Jrue and Tyreke aren't perfect. But they each bring exceptional skill sets to the table. The only real issue with either of them isn't them at all.

It's what it took to GET them here.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

You're really gonna just throw Vasquez out there? So in this criticism, defense doesn't exist now?

I mean, name a better or equally good on-ball defender at PG...

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I was waiting for it. I think Jrue is an excellent defender... on some nights. Does he have the ability? Yes. Does he consistently put it to use? No.

Point guards who are just as good defenders as Jrue while also contributing on offense:
Lowry, Rondo, Paul, Conley, Curry (this year), Westbrook.

That's not my point. I wouldn't take Gravy over Jrue. Not a chance in hell. Just making a comparison that he was supposed to surpass him BOTH offensively AND defensively. So far, he's held one end of that bargain up but we have to see it consistently offensively from our All-Star whom we traded a lot for.

Forget about the players that were selected-- two top 10 draft picks should net you a bonafide, serious player. Jrue was supposed to be and he has been a let down. There's no arguments there. At the end of the day, I think it's a fit problem. I don't think he fits with Tyreke or Gordon, but that doesn't excuse the fact that's he played poorly and inconsistently.

Hope that clears the Vasquez crap up, whom I couldn't stand to watch and if anybody wants to go back and look at my posts that's pretty well documented. I'm just saying he was supposed to be a MASSIVE upgrade. He's been a slight upgrade SO FAR.

I just dont know if this supporting cast will ever get us past round 1 of the playoffs with how inconsistent Jrue, Tyreke and Ryno are. Hopefully we do something big with the Gordon money

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Originally Posted by speedyG

I just dont know if this supporting cast will ever get us past round 1 of the playoffs with how inconsistent Jrue, Tyreke and Ryno are. Hopefully we do something big with the Gordon money

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The one thing you can say for Vasquez over Jrue, which you touched upon, is that he seemed to be a natural leader on the court. At the moment, we lack that, and it's a glaring weakness. Not sure AD is really that type of person. It's an oversimplification, but still. From my couch, our players, especially our guards, look rudderless.

I really didn't mean to bring a Vasquez-Jrue comparison here as Jrue is far superior and that's evident. I explained in my last post.

I think the Pelicans starters will gel once they play more minutes together.....Late January this team will be a well oiled machine.....

Another lackluster performance from our guards that costs us over 38-40m+ per year(same Injured no show Gordon included) plus the 2 first round picks. Our first rd pick is gone this year as well. Dell demps time has run its course. This experiment has not worked out. Hopefully the shot callers see the same thing. We are in need of a fresh start while DAVIS is still young and we have him locked up for another 4-5 years and we have Gordon's Max contract expiring next year. I love my Pelicans, but this team is going absolutely no where as constructed. If anyone thinks that all we need is a couple better bench players and we would be a definite playoff team, they are sadly mistaken. Tyreke evans and Ryan Anderson need to be traded for assets. We need to do a rebuild around holiday, Asik, and Davis. I don't think holiday can get into a rhythm with this team while playing with Reke. Jmho. Dam man I bet these other gm's are just waiting for next year, for our 2016 1st rd pick to be available. Opposing gms just been picking our 1st rounders right away from us. Smdh. 3 years no first rd pick and no playoffs?? In the words of cris Carter "C'MON MAN"

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Originally Posted by jegirouard

This doesn't tell much of the story. He has the ball in hands so often (as it should be) and has a lot of responsibility to make good decisions that set himself or teammates up to score. He has assumed the role of our playmaker and too often he makes the obvious mistake, whether it be over penetrating, taking forced shots, missing open men... Whatever.
Don't get me wrong, he is extremely talented and can seem to make anything on the basketball court work (except maybe a consistent jump shot, which is fine), and will have games where everything seems to work and Tyreke is the man. But can he be the guy that can consistenty play to his and his teammates strengths? Can he be the guy that can provide useful and even beneficial on an off shooting night and make the team better? This is what we need from him and I don't think he is capable of it. ...and his defense is nothing to ride home about.

But those per 36...

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Yep and Evans defenders are notably selective with their stats. How about his last ten games? 40% FG%, 15.6 points on 15 attempts per game. 15.4% from 3 on roughly 3 shots a game. 57% FT%, 3.2 TOV, 4.9 boards and 4.6 assists. Not exactly what I want from my supposed 3rd best player and supposedly best guard.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Yep and Evans defenders are notably selective with their stats. How about his last ten games? 40% FG%, 15.6 points on 15 attempts per game. 15.4% from 3 on roughly 3 shots a game. 57% FT%, 3.2 TOV, 4.9 boards and 4.6 assists. Not exactly what I want from my supposed 3rd best player and supposedly best guard.

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EXACTLY

How about the BABBS! 4/5 from 3! Salmons with a couple of nice steals, even Cunningham with a nice block. Mekel 6 assists in 11 min (was 3 in 3 at the start).

I loved the hustle from Cunningham on the offensive end, getting in there trying to help create second chances. And OMERGERD! Asik with a couple of big put backs. We lost but there were some great positives to take away as well. We have just played the clips and warriors, lets not get ourselves all depressed because we aren't winning every game straight away. Credit to Clips, they were shooting lights out - Reddick, Barnes and Crawford shot daggers allllll night. 53% from 3 as a team haha jesus. Chins up and roll on.

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Originally Posted by billfromfinance

How about the BABBS! 4/5 from 3! Salmons with a couple of nice steals, even Cunningham with a nice block. Mekel 6 assists in 11 min (was 3 in 3 at the start).

I loved the hustle from Cunningham on the offensive end, getting in there trying to help create second chances. And OMERGERD! Asik with a couple of big put backs. We lost but there were some great positives to take away as well. We have just played the clips and warriors, lets not get ourselves all depressed because we aren't winning every game straight away. Credit to Clips, they were shooting lights out - Reddick, Barnes and Crawford shot daggers allllll night. 53% from 3 as a team haha jesus. Chins up and roll on.

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Great shooting or horrible perimeter defence?

Bear in mind we've been a below average permieter defensive team historically.

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Originally Posted by Perth_Hornet

Great shooting or horrible perimeter defence?

Bear in mind we've been a below average permieter defensive team historically.

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Well a lot of what was credited as poor defense from Babbitt in the first quarter was actually Evans. Babbitt is awful, make no mistake, but he was a net positive for us that first quarter, possibly our only positive.

Crawford and Reddick are great shooters, let's be honest and Paul and Barnes can either be off or on. If the defense was excellent it's more likely that the last two are not going to be on. But they were.

poor defense, great offense? combination of both. clippers were moving the ball well, had multiple shooters to go to, and everyone of them was on fire. that's a tough ask of any defense, let alone ours. our defense was definitely poor tonight, but I am trying to look more at the positives throughout, and avoid joining the large number of negative posts.

also worth noting, matt barnes is having a career high ts% so far this season at .600. basically their first 6 are sitting at .600 or above, with only blake lower at .542 (Crawford is .597, close enough). That's an incredibly good shooting team right there (terkoglu is in the club too). meanwhile AD , Babbitt and ajinca are the only two shooting that well for us in our entire 15.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Yep and Evans defenders are notably selective with their stats. How about his last ten games? 40% FG%, 15.6 points on 15 attempts per game. 15.4% from 3 on roughly 3 shots a game. 57% FT%, 3.2 TOV, 4.9 boards and 4.6 assists. Not exactly what I want from my supposed 3rd best player and supposedly best guard.

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And he takes almost as many field goal attempts as Davis.

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Originally Posted by kclaboy504

Another lackluster performance from our guards that costs us over 38-40m+ per year(same Injured no show Gordon included) plus the 2 first round picks. Our first rd pick is gone this year as well. Dell demps time has run its course. This experiment has not worked out. Hopefully the shot callers see the same thing. We are in need of a fresh start while DAVIS is still young and we have him locked up for another 4-5 years and we have Gordon's Max contract expiring next year. I love my Pelicans, but this team is going absolutely no where as constructed. If anyone thinks that all we need is a couple better bench players and we would be a definite playoff team, they are sadly mistaken. Tyreke evans and Ryan Anderson need to be traded for assets. We need to do a rebuild around holiday, Asik, and Davis. I don't think holiday can get into a rhythm with this team while playing with Reke. Jmho. Dam man I bet these other gm's are just waiting for next year, for our 2016 1st rd pick to be available. Opposing gms just been picking our 1st rounders right away from us. Smdh. 3 years no first rd pick and no playoffs?? In the words of cris Carter "C'MON MAN"

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Good post. I've always said that this team is not a playoff team. This season has debunked a lot of myths. 1. Ryno is not a top 30 player. 2. Ryno cannot play the 3. 3. Tyreke is not an all-star caliber player and doesn't play a winning brand of ball.

IMO, Monty isn't the issue. This team is constructed of talented yet really low bball iq players. Also, this team has no real all around players. It's full of specialists. At some point, you need ballers on your team. We need guys that aren't one dimensional and can play both sides of the ball. That's on Dell. Dell chose to sit @ Reke's house @ midnight instead of using that money on more necessary pieces. He didn't though.

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Originally Posted by UptownFuz504

Good post. I've always said that this team is not a playoff team. This season has debunked a lot of myths. 1. Ryno is not a top 30 player. 2. Ryno cannot play the 3. 3. Tyreke is not an all-star caliber player and doesn't play a winning brand of ball.

IMO, Monty isn't the issue. This team is constructed of talented yet really low bball iq players. Also, this team has no real all around players. It's full of specialists. At some point, you need ballers on your team. We need guys that aren't one dimensional and can play both sides of the ball. That's on Dell. Dell chose to sit @ Reke's house @ midnight instead of using that money on more necessary pieces. He didn't though.

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Ok so either Monty cannot coach this group of guys or the group of guys just sucks. We cannot change all the players now so the only solution to me is to change the coach and see if someone else could coach this group better

We're just doomed for mediocrity.

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Originally Posted by PolishFan

Ok so either Monty cannot coach this group of guys or the group of guys just sucks. We cannot change all the players now so the only solution to me is to change the coach and see if someone else could coach this group better

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You could be and might be correct sir

I think most of the pieces are ok. Moves are ongoing, but at this point it's time for a new coach. A long, long time coming. Enough is enough.

I dont know if we have the pieces right now to be a real threat in the West. Jrue and Tyreke aren't the players we need them to be. Whether we beat good teams hinges alot on how good those 2 play

If we get a deeper bench maybe we can be the Trailblazers, but the core of the team just isn't anything special