Mirotic deal done ✅

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02-02-2018, 02:06 PM
Mythrol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelifan

I dont think the Clippers plan is to tank. Sure they traded Blake but unless Lou goes they will be surprisingly competitive. We've seen this team without Cousins and it was a 35 win basketball team. I think it would have been rather easy to fall out of the playoffs. I could do 14-19 and I think you'd still be suruprised at just how many rotation players you can get in that range.

The 6th seed would be very optimistic at this point. The Blazers are playing really good basketball right now.

The Clippers will tank. They are currently working to trade Williams and Jordan as we speak. They have no interest in winning basketball for the rest of this season or making the playoffs. That just hurts their pick. Any discussion of what we could have gotten should be from the 15 spot and up, out of the lottery.
02-02-2018, 02:18 PM
Mythrol

Quote:

Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Yes if Niko balls out this year and next he could be on another team. Now you get my point? When you don't have control over a player long term it's a crap shoot. As I said there's no guarantee we have Boogie next year and if you could guarantee it he still may not be 100% til 2020 season. These are all the factors that should be considered. Bruh.

Or he could stay here since we have his rights. Or he could be part of another trade to get us a star.

You call my opinion ignorant because it's speaking to the unknown then you turn around and make sweeping statements about the impact that Mirotic could have on our contention moving forward which is completely unknown to us.

There is a world where Mirotic ends up being worth more than whoever we would have picked at that spot and we got him as well as dumped Asik's contract for less than the value of the 1st anyway because we got a 2nd back.

This insistence that building through the draft is the best way for a small market is based on nothing but more of the unknown that you claim I speak to. 1 small market team has built through the draft and won it (SA). 1 small market team drafted a superstar then traded their way to a championship (Dallas). There's no overwhelming evidence that drafting is the best way.

All methods are based around making smart moves when possible, and being extremely extremely lucky. We are in a better, more flexible position as a team Moving forward than we were 48 hours ago.
02-02-2018, 02:25 PM
Pelifan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primetime

That trade for me was just bonehead overthinking. Between his deal only lasting a year + injury issues + the NBA is becoming more athletic, not bigger, it just seemed like an idiotic trade. Plus, we had no idea what to expect in that following year. That pick could have easily landed at like 5 or 6. Thank god it didn't.

This Mirotic trade is different for me because I think we can roughly state where that pick will land -- 13-21 -- and we get Asik off the books. Plus we badly need frontcourt help and it's nice to add shooting. That said, it'd be great if Mirotic goes off and we can move him ahead of next year's trade deadline cause we can't spend all our money on frontcourt players.

I'm nowhere near saying this trade was as bad as that one. In comparison this trade is miles better. But first round picks are aslo held in much higher regard now.

The point is most people really liked the trade. And it turned out to be a mistake because Asik was not worth retaining. For Mirotic I don't even think it's possible to retain him if he plays at or above the expectations of a guy you trade a first for. He'll be too expensive to afford with the Holiday, Davis, Cousins core. And Utah and LAC have had a very difficult time recieving the value they want for Favors and DAJ and we will be in a similar situation with Mirotic next year around this time.

I would have held out for a better trade or take the 30-50% chance we find a really good rotation player with that first round draft pick... at least if I had any faith in Demps to scout. A minor Ajinca move was called for imo.
02-02-2018, 02:36 PM
Topdawg26

A fully protected pick makes it even better. If we go to the playoffs than we get some playoff experience and helps Boogie resign. If we don’t make it to the playoffs than we get a lottery player.
02-02-2018, 02:53 PM
Primetime

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythrol

This insistence that building through the draft is the best way for a small market is based on nothing but more of the unknown that you claim I speak to. 1 small market team has built through the draft and won it (SA). 1 small market team drafted a superstar then traded their way to a championship (Dallas). There's no overwhelming evidence that drafting is the best way.

All methods are based around making smart moves when possible, and being extremely extremely lucky. We are in a better, more flexible position as a team Moving forward than we were 48 hours ago.

There's two points to make regarding the draft and I don't think anyone is saying that there's no other way.

1. The cost of an NBA draft pick is incredibly cheap. For example: the 4th pick in the draft should perform on average as well as who? Whoever that player is, the draft pick is likely way cheaper. Yes, the vet and the rookie have different chances of busting, but you can make a mistake with a rookie and it won't strangle your money and future options. Draft picks are also so cheap that it leaves you room for other FAs. So no one, I don't think, is discounting trades and FA. It's just that draft picks are noticeably cheap.

2. The draft is where you're on even ground with everyone. Whether you're drafting 5th or the Rockets are drafting, it's completely up to scouting. There is no distinct advantage by virtue of being a bigger organization or market. In FA, if the Pelicans and Rockets have the same price tag on a player, most times that player will be a Rocket. Therefore, there is a disadvantage built-in vs bigger name teams and markets. Not always of course, but many times. This doesn't come up in drafts.

As you pointed out, all methods are based around making smart moves. But the following is I think important given the conversation: are draft picks paid correctly? By that I mean, has the NBA correctly assigned salary to draft picks at each slot.
02-02-2018, 03:06 PM
da ThRONe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythrol

Or he could stay here since we have his rights. Or he could be part of another trade to get us a star.

You call my opinion ignorant because it's speaking to the unknown then you turn around and make sweeping statements about the impact that Mirotic could have on our contention moving forward which is completely unknown to us.

There is a world where Mirotic ends up being worth more than whoever we would have picked at that spot and we got him as well as dumped Asik's contract for less than the value of the 1st anyway because we got a 2nd back.

This insistence that building through the draft is the best way for a small market is based on nothing but more of the unknown that you claim I speak to. 1 small market team has built through the draft and won it (SA). 1 small market team drafted a superstar then traded their way to a championship (Dallas). There's no overwhelming evidence that drafting is the best way.

All methods are based around making smart moves when possible, and being extremely extremely lucky. We are in a better, more flexible position as a team Moving forward than we were 48 hours ago.

Where has anybody said anything differently? The only point of contention is probability. Draft picks allow for more flexibility therefore allow for more mistakes. Draft picks have similar if not greater reward as young vets with significantly less risk. That to me seems like the obvious choice in our cases where the franchise has struggled mightly to recruit top end FA's.
02-02-2018, 03:49 PM
Mythrol

Quote:

Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Draft picks allow for more flexibility therefore allow for more mistakes. Draft picks have similar if not greater reward as young vets with significantly less risk. That to me seems like the obvious choice in our cases where the franchise has struggled mightly to recruit top end FA's.

I think this is the core of our issue. We disagree on this fundamental point. Mid to late 1st round picks based off of statistics do not possess greater reward with less significantly less risk. That's the entire point I'm making, the draft is a crap shot especially outside of the lottery.

Young vets are a MUCH safer bet.
02-02-2018, 06:04 PM
luckyman

Quote:

Originally Posted by da ThRONe

A rookie contract is guaranteed by the team for 5 years. That doesn't mean the player will last that long.

The odds of small market teams winning via FA and trades are even less which is the point. There's no easy way again just percentages and the numbers favor the draft for good reasons. That I've explained a lot around here.

Thats even worse then. The goal is to win games. Not constantly flip/cut 20 - 22 year old players until your broken clock is finally right.

Where do you get your numbers? Most teams that win do it via all avenues. Not just the draft.
02-02-2018, 06:11 PM
Eman5805

Terrence Jones is back. Between the two, the pump fakeage will dominate the universe.
02-02-2018, 06:18 PM
Pelicanidae

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eman5805

Terrence Jones is back. Between the two, the pump fakeage will dominate the universe.

Honestly, Jones' pump fake is so slow I swear it goes backwards.
02-02-2018, 06:21 PM
Eman5805

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Honestly, Jones' pump fake is so slow I swear it goes backwards.

He's not pump faking in actuality. HE's moving the universe down relative to the ball's location.
02-02-2018, 06:21 PM
Topdawg26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eman5805

Terrence Jones is back. Between the two, the pump fakeage will dominate the universe.

Awesome! I wish he had never left. He was pretty good off the bench for us.
02-02-2018, 06:37 PM
Rheem654

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eman5805

He's not pump faking in actuality. HE's moving the universe down relative to the ball's location.

:hihi: you are one creative mf'er, E
02-02-2018, 06:53 PM
redrum

Terrence Jones is finalizing a 10-day deal with the Pelicans.

Since being waived by the Bucks, Jones had a short stint in China and then made his way to the G-League where he's been lighting it up. The Pelicans missed out on the Greg Monroe sweepstakes, but they were able to bring in Nikola Mirotic. Jones can play the four and five and could potentially carve out a nice role up front, but we'll have to see how the Pelicans use him before recommending him as an add. Coach Alvin Gentry thinks Dante Cunningham is a Hall-of-Famer, but Jones is the better player and is worth keeping an eye on.

per Rotoworld

✔
@ShamsCharania
The New Orleans Pelicans are finalizing a 10-day contract with forward Terrence Jones, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
02-02-2018, 06:55 PM
kinglio21093

Did something bad happen between the Pels and Terrence Jones when he got released? Kushner and Oleh Kosel were saying that there was possibly bad blood between the two parties but I don’t remember that.
02-02-2018, 06:57 PM
Pelicanidae

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinglio21093

Did something bad happen between the Pels and Terrence Jones when he got released? Kushner and Oleh Kosel were saying that there was possibly bad blood between the two parties but I don’t remember that.

I hope not, cause I liked him. He played decent defense, hustled hard, and was an effective offensive weapon.
02-02-2018, 07:13 PM
Topdawg26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I hope not, cause I liked him. He played decent defense, hustled hard, and was an effective offensive weapon.

Yeah! I wouldn’t mind having him as the backup big next season for the minimum.
02-02-2018, 07:24 PM
Mythrol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eman5805

He's not pump faking in actuality. HE's moving the universe down relative to the ball's location.

Lol
02-02-2018, 07:27 PM
Mythrol

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinglio21093

Did something bad happen between the Pels and Terrence Jones when he got released? Kushner and Oleh Kosel were saying that there was possibly bad blood between the two parties but I don’t remember that.

I know Jones demanded to be released whenever Cousins was traded for so we did just that.

Maybe there was some hard feelings by how he left but nothing specific was mentioned that I remember.

Whatever it was, they are clearly over it because winning is all that matters.
02-02-2018, 07:35 PM
Rheem654

Aaaand, No T-Jones afterall....
Sources: New Orleans has changed course on deal with Jones and won’t complete it, and will leave roster spots open for now. https://t.co/81qH9kcGLB
— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) February 3, 2018
02-02-2018, 07:36 PM
Pelicanidae

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rheem654

Aaaand, No T-Jones afterall....
Sources: New Orleans has changed course on deal with Jones and won’t complete it, and will leave roster spots open for now. https://t.co/81qH9kcGLB
— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) February 3, 2018

Ooookay then
02-02-2018, 07:37 PM
Mythrol

Alright...

Well let's see where this goes.
02-02-2018, 07:59 PM
AusPel

Orlando perpetually builds through the draft and they are essentially in the same spot they were 5 years ago
02-02-2018, 08:06 PM
Pelicanidae

Quote:

Originally Posted by AusPel

Orlando perpetually builds through the draft and they are essentially in the same spot they were 5 years ago

I think something people are missing when they talk about, say, San Antonio "building through the draft" is that they had spent 10 years sitting on David Robinson and achieving basically nothing until Tim Duncan fell into their laps. It was only then, when they had a top ten C of all time + arguably the greatest PF of all time that they made waves: and Duncan wasn't your typical rookie. He'd stayed in college all four years, he was NBA ready.

As for Parker and Ginobili, that's so unlikely that even the Spurs haven't been able to repeat their success drafting that low again, in over another decade.

The Spurs are a terrible example to try and follow because they essentially lucked into it at first.
02-02-2018, 08:43 PM
Eman5805

Jones will have to break the laws of physics on some other team.

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