Draft Prospects Discussion

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Originally Posted by Impose

Wrong. I'm a little sick of you just making up crap like it's actual fact. Hield will still be 22 when next season starts. Lillard was just 22 when he started his first season, same with Green, Reddick, Parsons was 23 in October before his rookie season.

You just flat out make stuff up hey dude, your arguments are pointless because they aren't factual.

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I admitted i was wrong, I guessed off the top of my head

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Ok but who in the 8-10 range satisfies those wants is my point? Most of the guys you listed will be gone at our likely spot.

Hield's scouting actually looks a lot like Matthews on the defensive end. Almost eerily so. The consensus is that he projects to be an adequate defender at the next level with room to grow into a good defender. He has good lateral quickness, good strength, solid on-ball skills, acceptable length but still has work to go on fundamentals and technique. But that pretty much applies to any player coming out of college. He certainly isnt a one way player. Though I doubt he ever becomes a lock down defender.

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I told you who I like Timothe Luwawu, I'm not interested in picking a guard or this constant win now approach with a guy who can contribute right away. I feel like if they don't change their approach with that mentality this franchise is doomed.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

I told you who I like Timothe Luwawu, I'm not interested in picking a guard or this constant win now approach with a guy who can contribute right away. I feel like if they don't change their approach with that mentality this franchise is doomed.

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Luwawu is listed at 195 pounds, he's not going to play SF in the NBA until he bulks up. I remember you saying Q-Pon isn;t a SF because he gets bullied by bigger guys, Luwawu will need 3 or 4 years to not be bullied by big SF's.

He's a tall guard with average speed, most mocks have him out of the lottery because he's not that great an athlete.

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Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

The more I hear this "the team wants someone who can help now and are likely to trade the pick or take a veteran college player" the more infuriated I get. This franchise is going to waste the career of the best 25 or younger player in the league because they have this "win now mentality. YOUR FRANCHISE PLAYER IS 22 FREAKING YEARS OLD AND IS ALREADY A TOP 5 PLAYER IN THE GAME. It's not Demps fault either, it falls squarely on the shoulders of Tom Benson wanting to see his team win now. We are getting all these "young vets" that by the time AD is in his prime at 27 years old they will all be 32 years and older and this team will really go into the **************. Such bad management.

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This is my argument from the beginning. And it's sad because alot of fans is buying into this way of thinking pushing for the quick fix and playoffs. Rushing the process and trying to put a bandaid on this franchise is what will make AD wanna gtfoh if it gets to that bad. Management philosophy is exactly what Mediocre teams throughout history does, and not championship ones. If fans are fine with just being "ok" and a fun team and not a championship contender, then maybe I'll be a loner pessimist, but I see what MM speech about championship or bust is all about. This franchise has to change its philosophy. Starting now and building correctly through the draft is the right way to go. No damn wishful thinking of getting a FA and resigning broken toys to play together with.

You take your damn L like a man and learn from it. The pride and ego of management is slowly becoming our downfall. Also as fans we have to understand the process. I'm sick of the whole stigma of building through the draft is "quitting" or tanking. It's not. It's like you guys have been brainwashed from Benson. We have to put our pride aside and think of the bigger picture.


NEWSFLASH: New Orleans received the most National televised games in the history of the franchise this year. Because media is ready for AD to take off and knows he will be a superstar. But CP3 and our best season still didn't Warner attnetion. We are a small market. Hell even new Orleans folks don't take the Pels serious.

We have to accept the reality that we are NOT a hot destination. We have probably the WORST medical staff in the league and we have a young Superstar in the making but no other true "players" Free agents are not gonna be banging on out door like you guys are assuming.

Dell knows this. Loomis knows this. This is why they were looking for young vets or very good players not "stars" during Dell era here. It's not gonna change now after a horrible embarrassing season displayed on national media.

The draft and slow building is the true answer for us guys. Please accept the truth

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Originally Posted by Impose

Luwawu is listed at 195 pounds, he's not going to play SF in the NBA until he bulks up. I remember you saying Q-Pon isn;t a SF because he gets bullied by bigger guys, Luwawu will need 3 or 4 years to not be bullied by big SF's.

He's a tall guard with average speed, most mocks have him out of the lottery because he's not that great an athlete.

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I've have yet so that knock on him. Everything I seen on him he can be a great defender at the NBA level. Of course it will take a couple of years to develop his NBA body he's a rookie. Batum was listed at 218 as a took he in his recent interview says hes around 210 and 6'7 without shoes. I like this guy a lot due to his defensive versitlity and passing with how athletic he is. People are ify on him due to the league he plays in where its more of an open floor game than the NBA.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

I told you who I like Timothe Luwawu, I'm not interested in picking a guard or this constant win now approach with a guy who can contribute right away. I feel like if they don't change their approach with that mentality this franchise is doomed.

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As someone else said he seems to be a reach at 8-10. I guess if you see him as a superstar no position for him would ever be a reach.

I just think we are stuck on a core disagreement about where Hield's ceiling is. You seem to think he is essentielly tapped out while I don't. So while we both have a similar mindset about our draft needing to be someone that can be another borderline all star next to Davis, we just disagree on whether Hield's realistic ceiling can be that.

The point of getting someone who has multiple college years is to get someone who isn't an idiot. It's amazing how many busts come mid lotto because teams go purely for potentially good players who are generally athletes first, basketball players second.

Look at Golden State drafting their championship team:

Klay - Junior college career
Steph - Junior college career
Draymond - Senior college career
Ezeli - Senior college career

They drafted young men who had played multiple seasons under high level coaching and ran serious offensive schemes. The reason I want Hield is because he will be able to and used to working within an offensive scheme. He is an ELITE shooter; Curry and Klay were both 40% college 3pt shooters, Hield is 47% right now on 8 attempts per game. Hield is built for the modern NBA. Drafting more polished prospects is how Golden State won their chip, not by gambling on 19 year olds who have proven nothing.

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

This is my argument from the beginning. And it's sad because alot of fans is buying into this way of thinking pushing for the quick fix and playoffs. Rushing the process and trying to put a bandaid on this franchise is what will make AD wanna gtfoh if it gets to that bad. Management philosophy is exactly what Mediocre teams throughout history does, and not championship ones. If fans are fine with just being "ok" and a fun team and not a championship contender, then maybe I'll be a loner pessimist, but I see what MM speech about championship or bust is all about. This franchise has to change its philosophy. Starting now and building correctly through the draft is the right way to go. No damn wishful thinking of getting a FA and resigning broken toys to play together with.

You take your damn L like a man and learn from it. The pride and ego of management is slowly becoming our downfall. Also as fans we have to understand the process. I'm sick of the whole stigma of building through the draft is "quitting" or tanking. It's not. It's like you guys have been brainwashed from Benson. We have to put our pride aside and think of the bigger picture.


NEWSFLASH: New Orleans received the most National televised games in the history of the franchise this year. Because media is ready for AD to take off and knows he will be a superstar. But CP3 and our best season still didn't Warner attnetion. We are a small market. Hell even new Orleans folks don't take the Pels serious.

We have to accept the reality that we are NOT a hot destination. We have probably the WORST medical staff in the league and we have a young Superstar in the making but no other true "players" Free agents are not gonna be banging on out door like you guys are assuming.

Dell knows this. Loomis knows this. This is why they were looking for young vets or very good players not "stars" during Dell era here. It's not gonna change now after a horrible embarrassing season displayed on national media.

The draft and slow building is the true answer for us guys. Please except the truth

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https://media.giphy.com/media/7rj2ZgttvgomY/200w.gif

And you can see the fan base falling for this by everyone wanting an NBA ready prospect. This team a complete overhaul and needs to grow together.

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Originally Posted by Impose

The point of getting someone who has multiple college years is to get someone who isn't an idiot. It's amazing how many busts come mid lotto because teams go purely for potentially good players who are generally athletes first, basketball players second.

Look at Golden State drafting their championship team:

Klay - Junior college career
Steph - Junior college career
Draymond - Senior college career
Ezeli - Senior college career

They drafted young men who had played multiple seasons under high level coaching and ran serious offensive schemes. The reason I want Hield is because he will be able to and used to working within an offensive scheme. He is an ELITE shooter; Curry and Klay were both 40% college 3pt shooters, Hield is 47% right now on 8 attempts per game. Hield is built for the modern NBA. Drafting more polished prospects is how Golden State won their chip, not by gambling on 19 year olds who have proven nothing.

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And then you have guys like Bennett and Beasly or Thomas Robinson or Bummer who were all killing college and were NBA ready but were all duds. Its a difference between being pure potential and having potential with flashes of skill. Luwawu plays in a league much tougher than the College bball on one of the best teams in that league while being a major key. So to say he plays for nothing is false.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

As someone else said he seems to be a reach at 8-10. I guess if you see him as a superstar no position for him would ever be a reach.

I just think we are stuck on a core disagreement about where Hield's ceiling is. You seem to think he is essentielly tapped out while I don't. So while we both have a similar mindset about our draft needing to be someone that can be another borderline all star next to Davis, we just disagree on whether Hield's realistic ceiling can be that.

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I can agree with that I think Heild will be a decent scorer but scoring can always be learned I'm not sold on him defensively. He's average in college and is the same size and stature as Gordon and as we seen with him unless you are an explosive athlete its hard to be a good defender. I know ppl bring up Wes but he came into the NBA as a defender first and learned to score. I rather the guy who can help fix our bottom 10 defense for the past 5 years over the guy who can fix our top 10 offense.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

As someone else said he seems to be a reach at 8-10.

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Looking at who's drafting in that area and what their needs are I think you might be able to trade to the back of the lottery and still get him. I like Hield but we HAVE to address SF at some point. We see what surrounding AD with guards gets you, an above average offense and a terrible defense. We're not likely to get a high level SF via FA anytime soon and we failed to trade for similar guys like Porter Jr and Oubre with about as good of a non draft pick asset as we're going to get, so we pretty much need to draft one, maybe even 2. I'd love to come out of this draft with Luwawu and Taurean Prince. Prince is a little older and bigger but more limited, strict 3 and D type. They'd make a good tandem and let you shift QPon to SG full time. Then all of a sudden you go from undersized bad perimeter defenders to long and athletic plus defenders.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

And then you have guys like Bennett and Beasly or Thomas Robinson or Bummer who were all killing college and were NBA ready but were all duds. Its a difference between being pure potential and having potential with flashes of skill. Luwawu plays in a league much tougher than the College bball on one of the best teams in that league while being a major key. So to say he plays for nothing is false.

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Not sure you're even arguing my point? Bennett and Beasley were both drafted after freshman years, Robinson was still athlete first, basketball player second and got exposed for being too small for his position.

I'm not saying Luwawu cannot be good, I'm saying it'll take him years to even touch what Hield is able to do. Even then it's a maybe.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

I can agree with that I think Heild will be a decent scorer but scoring can always be learned I'm not sold on him defensively. He's average in college and is the same size and stature as Gordon and as we seen with him unless you are an explosive athlete its hard to be a good defender. I know ppl bring up Wes but he came into the NBA as a defender first and learned to score. I rather the guy who can help fix our bottom 10 defense for the past 5 years over the guy who can fix our top 10 offense.

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He is above average in college.

Gordon lost a lot defensively because he is shorter(though a slightly longer wingspan) and with injuries his athleticism is just shot. People had high hopes for him defensively before all the injuries. Going so far as saying he could be an elite defender in this league. Hield isnt getting quite that level of projection but "very good" seems to be a common realistic projection. There is nothing preventing him from being a good defender. He has enough strength, lateral quickness, IQ and effort to become one.

Any player with the right measurables, effort and IQ can be a good defender. Taking a similarly raw talent offensively and turning them into an offensively versatile and proficient NBA player is historically much harder.

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Originally Posted by Impose

I'm not saying Luwawu cannot be good, I'm saying it'll take him years to even touch what Hield is able to do. Even then it's a maybe.

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And that's the biggest problem with this franchise looking for quick fixes and ignoring the real problems. Yes Heild can be a good scorer but that is not what we need. I rather surround AD with a team full of great defenders and ok scorers than a team full of great scores and ok defenders.

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Originally Posted by BP225

Looking at who's drafting in that area and what their needs are I think you might be able to trade to the back of the lottery and still get him. I like Hield but we HAVE to address SF at some point. We see what surrounding AD with guards gets you, an above average offense and a terrible defense. We're not likely to get a high level SF via FA anytime soon and we failed to trade for similar guys like Porter Jr and Oubre with about as good of a non draft pick asset as we're going to get, so we pretty much need to draft one, maybe even 2. I'd love to come out of this draft with Luwawu and Taurean Prince. Prince is a little older and bigger but more limited, strict 3 and D type. They'd make a good tandem and let you shift QPon to SG full time. Then all of a sudden you go from undersized bad perimeter defenders to long and athletic plus defenders.

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Listen I am with you, SF is at the top of my list of needs. And it isnt close.

I am just not going to pass up a guy I think can be really good in this league because he doesnt match my ideal position of need.

Like I have said, I need to do some more research on Luwawu, but outside of him, there seems to be a complete drought of SF prospects in our projected range of 8-10 and I am not sure I would be willing to reach for a guy projected anywhere from 20-30 like Taurean Prince simply because he checks off that box.

There are plenty of serviceable SF's who can defend around in FA. I agree with Bronco there is NO point in reaching for a SF if BPA is a SG or C because they are all positions of need.

I wasn't suggesting taking Prince with our 1st, I was thinking more like trading both of our 2nds for a late 1st to grab him. Or maybe if you can find a tradeback partner for our 1st, like getting the Cleveland pick from Phoenix, you could package that with one of the 2nds to move up to the mid 20s and take him.

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Originally Posted by Impose

There are plenty of serviceable SF's who can defend around in FA. I agree with Bronco there is NO point in reaching for a SF if BPA is a SG or C because they are all positions of need.

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Name one that is realistic?

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

Name one that is realistic?

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Wes Johnson

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Originally Posted by Impose

Wes Johnson

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That guy sucks

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Originally Posted by Impose

There are plenty of serviceable SF's who can defend around in FA. I agree with Bronco there is NO point in reaching for a SF if BPA is a SG or C because they are all positions of need.

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I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think you're wrong to have faith that the team will be able to get one just because they're on the market. It's been the glaring hole on the roster since Ariza left. Fans lost patience with Aminu because Monty overplayed him because he didn't really have any other options. And we've replaced Aminu for 2 years with the same "plan" we had for replacing Lopez. Things got bad enough at center that we ended up burning a 1st to trade for a Lopez replacement. If that's the path we're on, and I don't think we have any evidence to suggest we're on another path at SF, then drafting some good SF prospects seems better than waiting for things to get so bad we make an Asik style trade for a SF.

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Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang

That guy sucks

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He and Pondexter can easily handle the SF position for another year, it doesn't have to be a long term signing. Fact is the guy has good size, good block/steal numbers, I've read Clipper fans giving Doc crap for not playing him more. He'd be fine for a 2 year contract with 2nd year a team option. Pondexter will play SF next year and if we're really looking for a long term answer go look at Mo Harkless lately in Portland, he's been good.

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Originally Posted by BP225

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think you're wrong to have faith that the team will be able to get one just because they're on the market. It's been the glaring hole on the roster since Ariza left. Fans lost patience with Aminu because Monty overplayed him because he didn't really have any other options. And we've replaced Aminu for 2 years with the same "plan" we had for replacing Lopez. Things got bad enough at center that we ended up burning a 1st to trade for a Lopez replacement. If that's the path we're on, and I don't think we have any evidence to suggest we're on another path at SF, then drafting some good SF prospects seems better than waiting for things to get so bad we make an Asik style trade for a SF.

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There are lots of ways to acquire a SF, doesn't have to be through the lottery. Heck we can even force Tyreke to play it if we really feel like it. The only reason people are screaming for a SF is because Pondexter has been out and Gee/Cunningham can't shoot.

You are drooling over Luwawu when you haven't even seen the guy play but a few times max! Not saying he won't be good but having such a strong opinion on somebody you can't even watch makes very little sense.

Boston didn't want to trade Jae Crowder for Kevin Love. 2 way wings are becoming indispensable in today's NBA, perhaps the most important position outside of SuperStar. Wes Johnson and QPon isn't that different from Jason Smith and Stiemsma at center. If that's the plan I suspect we'll be trading our 2017 1st for a small forward sometime next year.