Zion not just being held out?

On today's This Just In on ESPN, @_Andrew_Lopez told @maxkellerman that it is "highly unlikely we see Zion Williamson in this Pelicans-Suns first-round series. pic.twitter.com/XzTpHS9AMO

— Oleh Kosel 🇺🇦 (@OlehKosel) April 22, 2022

That's extremely unfortunate if that's accurate. That'd better be accurate, though. If the team is saying, "He's not healed," but Zion is saying, "I'm healed," we're looking at problems.

You think they would let him play 5-on-5 if the bone wasnt healed? Explain that logic.

Like, do you think a guy whose strained hamstring is mostly back plays 5 on 5? Or partially torn ACL plays 5 on 5?

If the bone wasnt healed, he wouldnt be playing 5-on-5, even if it were with 2nd graders. But again, they gotta push forward stuff like this now that they simply cant run the clock out like they planned to

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

You think they would let him play 5-on-5 if the bone wasnt healed? Explain that logic.

Like, do you think a guy whose strained hamstring is mostly back plays 5 on 5? Or partially torn ACL plays 5 on 5?

If the bone wasnt healed, he wouldnt be playing 5-on-5, even if it were with 2nd graders. But again, they gotta push forward stuff like this now that they simply cant run the clock out like they planned to

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Yeah, the way the team is handling this is really starting to ******** me off. For all the positives in direction for the team, this appears to be an area they are intent to shoot themselves in the foot repeatedly.

Zion isn't in game shape. That foot is healed. It's been since July/August from the initial surgery. December from the bone treatment.

If Zion's foot was still having issues. Zion camp would of concede and got that 2nd surgery.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

You think they would let him play 5-on-5 if the bone wasnt healed? Explain that logic.

Like, do you think a guy whose strained hamstring is mostly back plays 5 on 5? Or partially torn ACL plays 5 on 5?

If the bone wasnt healed, he wouldnt be playing 5-on-5, even if it were with 2nd graders. But again, they gotta push forward stuff like this now that they simply cant run the clock out like they planned to

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I was going to add that he wouldn't be on camera showing off these acrobatic dunks if there was a healing issue. It really feels like the public is being lied to at this point...

Just my opinion but to me it looks like Griff is protecting his trade chip and don't want Zion to go out and kill his trade value.

All this is doing is p!ssing off Zion's camp even more to force a trade, and I'm sure Griff sees how the team is playing WITHOUT Zion... would rather remove that cloud for over the organization.

As much as I would love to mix Zion in with what we've got... I would also welcome a trade and get a war chest of assets to add to what we are building.

Either way I'm ready for it.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

Just my opinion but to me it looks like Griff is protecting his trade chip and don't want Zion to go out and kill his trade value.

All this is doing is p!ssing off Zion's camp even more to force a trade, and I'm sure Griff sees how the team is playing WITHOUT Zion... would rather remove that cloud for over the organization.

As much as I would love to mix Zion in with what we've got... I would also welcome a trade and get a war chest of assets to add to what we are building.

Either way I'm ready for it.

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You and me both. Our current roster has guys who actually want to be here. If Zion doesn't want to be apart of that, then he needs to go. Trade him and acquire a few assets that can help take this team to the next level.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

Just my opinion but to me it looks like Griff is protecting his trade chip and don't want Zion to go out and kill his trade value.

All this is doing is p!ssing off Zion's camp even more to force a trade, and I'm sure Griff sees how the team is playing WITHOUT Zion... would rather remove that cloud for over the organization.

As much as I would love to mix Zion in with what we've got... I would also welcome a trade and get a war chest of assets to add to what we are building.

Either way I'm ready for it.

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I just don't see how not playing Zion for the whole season helps you in trade scenarios. We SHOULD get more for a full value Zion than we got for either Jrue or AD. However, at this point, I can't see us getting even that much.

Lets say him playing 5 games well gets you 90 value

Him not playing at all gets you 80 value

Him getting hurt again knocks his value down to 50

Now, simple risk vs. reward....its clearly better not to play him. Besides, even if he plays, teams will still want their own doctors to look at him. Something that can happen during summer league/other parts of the offseason. If Pels are transparent with medical info, Zion and his team agree to meet with other teams doctors (they would for some teams), you could possibly get close to full value for him. Especially if multiple teams were interested and bidding.

I think it's obvious.
They will max him and trade him as soon as they can.
It would suggest that Zion doesn't fit this teams culture.
I guess they are going to build around BI.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Lets say him playing 5 games well gets you 90 value

Him not playing at all gets you 80 value

Him getting hurt again knocks his value down to 50

Now, simple risk vs. reward....its clearly better not to play him. Besides, even if he plays, teams will still want their own doctors to look at him. Something that can happen during summer league/other parts of the offseason. If Pels are transparent with medical info, Zion and his team agree to meet with other teams doctors (they would for some teams), you could possibly get close to full value for him. Especially if multiple teams were interested and bidding.

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My contention is I don't believe you get 80% value for Zion this summer if you try to trade him. I'm thinking more 60%. Maybe I'm way off base and teams still value him highly

There is nobody in this forum (or Airline Drive, for that matter) that really knows what the effect would be by integrating ZW into the team at this late date. Everybody seems to believe that it would be a simple, seamless transition. I don't buy this proposition at all. The current team ('Zion-less') has been through an 82-game campaign together that brings them to this point in time where the fruit of their labor has resulted a remarkable turn-around, and a team that is in-sync, both on the court and in the locker room (Zion hasn't even been with the team for much of the year).

To just casually say, "JAX, you are losing most of your minutes for Zion's sake...BI, CJ, we're taking the ball out of your hands a little more tonight...Trey, Larry, one of you may not get minutes tonight; we'll see...Naji, you're going to sit this one out." is just foolhardy and just plain dumb. In a vacuum, it may be the thing to do, but it is so short-sighted to deny that it places the long-term 'psyche' of the team at risk. And, that's more important to me than ZW.

Look at it this way:

Zion is a guy who has, as of yet, even taken a practice floor with this 21-22 team and, somehow, some of us expect us to just throw him into a game. It's like a high schooler with a 4.0+ GPA transferring into a new, high-achieving school late in the last semester of his/her senior year and being given the Valedictorian Award for that year over someone who has competed in that high school the whole time.

Give him the four additional months to get ready for next year and let this team continue to play and surprise. Let each year stand on it's own merit.

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Originally Posted by Chris

I was going to add that he wouldn't be on camera showing off these acrobatic dunks if there was a healing issue. It really feels like the public is being lied to at this point...

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This information is from Andrew Lopez. Yall are either gonna learn not to jump off a bridge according to these people or you won't.

There is a very obvious answer as to why you won't see Ben Simmons either.

Nobody thinks it would be simple and seamless if he were put back to the top of the rotation. That would take some time. 15-20 mins, in which you are taking those mins from guys who havent been playing well. With those mins mostly coming against backups/staggered units, etc... that is a totally different thing. And you know who would be most supportive of that? Guys like Naji and Jaxson, etc.

Let me ask you this, would you be more or less afraid of the Suns if the NBA said, "We decided to allow Darius Garland to play 15-20 mins off the bench for them starting Game 3"?

More, of course. And that guy has never even practiced with those guys. You think Landry Shamit would be furious and it would destroy the locker room?

You are WAY overthinking this IMO.

imo the guys who got us to this point earn all of the credit...they earned their way into the play-in and won....they earned their way into the playoffs and won a game...these guys achieved what majority of the fans and media didnt think they could do it.....imo the players on the team who got us to this point has earned the right to see this thing through ..win or loose...

Where is that line drawn? I mean, Nance really didn’t do anything in the regular season to help this team get here. Didn’t play in like the first 70 games for this team. Should he not have been able to take some of Willys minutes? Is Willy throwing a fit now that he isn’t playing and Nance has his minutes and team is better?

Way, way too much overthinking going on here IMO

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

On today's This Just In on ESPN, @_Andrew_Lopez told @maxkellerman that it is "highly unlikely we see Zion Williamson in this Pelicans-Suns first-round series. pic.twitter.com/XzTpHS9AMO

— Oleh Kosel ���� (@OlehKosel) April 22, 2022

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Where is that line drawn? I mean, Nance really didn’t do anything in the regular season to help this team get here. Didn’t play in like the first 70 games for this team. Should he not have been able to take some of Willys minutes? Is Willy throwing a fit now that he isn’t playing and Nance has his minutes and team is better?

Way, way too much overthinking going on here IMO

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i get it..people want zion....you want ,what you want....

my thing is he has not played in the regular season.....nance came on late in the regular season and contribute to the team getting into the play-in....myself,im totally fine and happy with watching and cheering for all of the guys who played in the regular season and i believed they earned the right to see this out...win or loose with zion ....

So, the arbitrary line is the "regular season"? If a guy misses the first 73 games for the team, you can insert him and take minutes from the guys who got you there. But not 82 games or 84. Then, it is not fair to those guys.

Do you see the arbitrariness of that, or no?

You play the guys who give you the best chance to win and NBA players are adults, they know that. Naji Marshall would be jumping out of his seat watching Zion dominate in the 15 mins, even if that meant Naji got none. How about this....put it to a secret vote with the players. I bet the tally is 14-0, yes let him play

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

So, the arbitrary line is the "regular season"? If a guy misses the first 73 games for the team, you can insert him and take minutes from the guys who got you there. But not 82 games or 84. Then, it is not fair to those guys.

Do you see the arbitrariness of that, or no?

You play the guys who give you the best chance to win and NBA players are adults, they know that. Naji Marshall would be jumping out of his seat watching Zion dominate in the 15 mins, even if that meant Naji got none. How about this....put it to a secret vote with the players. I bet the tally is 14-0, yes let him play

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for me...this is my thing...this is about my happiness.....if BI was out for the year and zion was healthy and we were in this same spot..i would say the same thing about BI...

i had a convo with you in the past telling you that im a different kat than majority of yall on here....i told you in the past that i would be content with the pelicans making the 8th seed of the playoffs for 10 years in a row ,,now that was before the play-in so now my goals have to go up to the 6 seed... my thing is, i just want to go to playoffs games and that would be a good season for me.....if we ever win a title, i would be happy but if it never happens then im good with that also......its about me enjoy myself and what i want to see to enjoy.....

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Originally Posted by As I See It

There is nobody in this forum (or Airline Drive, for that matter) that really knows what the effect would be by integrating ZW into the team at this late date. Everybody seems to believe that it would be a simple, seamless transition. I don't buy this proposition at all. The current team ('Zion-less') has been through an 82-game campaign together that brings them to this point in time where the fruit of their labor has resulted a remarkable turn-around, and a team that is in-sync, both on the court and in the locker room (Zion hasn't even been with the team for much of the year).

To just casually say, "JAX, you are losing most of your minutes for Zion's sake...BI, CJ, we're taking the ball out of your hands a little more tonight...Trey, Larry, one of you may not get minutes tonight; we'll see...Naji, you're going to sit this one out." is just foolhardy and just plain dumb. In a vacuum, it may be the thing to do, but it is so short-sighted to deny that it places the long-term 'psyche' of the team at risk. And, that's more important to me than ZW.

Look at it this way:

Zion is a guy who has, as of yet, even taken a practice floor with this 21-22 team and, somehow, some of us expect us to just throw him into a game. It's like a high schooler with a 4.0+ GPA transferring into a new, high-achieving school late in the last semester of his/her senior year and being given the Valedictorian Award for that year over someone who has competed in that high school the whole time.

Give him the four additional months to get ready for next year and let this team continue to play and surprise. Let each year stand on it's own merit.

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I agree with this assessment. He hasn't practiced against his teammates. He isn't going to be in game shape. He likely doesn't know a lot of the plays on offense or switches on defense. He was a defensive liability when he was healthy. Why put him in the lineup now when every minute matters in the playoffs and every mistake is magnified? Ride with the horses that brought us.

Can someone explain why Griff doesn’t want to play Zion?

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Originally Posted by HorneyTexan

I agree with this assessment. He hasn't practiced against his teammates. He isn't going to be in game shape. He likely doesn't know a lot of the plays on offense or switches on defense. He was a defensive liability when he was healthy. Why put him in the lineup now when every minute matters in the playoffs and every mistake is magnified? Ride with the horses that brought us.

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This answers my previous question

I will gladly sacrifice ever last one of DG’s mins to let Zion play. What, is Zion not going to be able to replicate what DG does?

I’ll just repeat what I posted a few weeks back the day after Zion’s step dad gave that radio interview. I talked to a buddy who is a big Pels supporter and friends with senior management. I expected to hear some good news about how things with Zion were getting patched up following his return from Portland. I did not. He said from the teams point of view things with Zion were probably not salvageable and that Zion would not suit up for he rest of the year regardless of health because—like with AD at the end—they did not want to risk any further injury diminishing his trade value. I continue to hope this is wrong.

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Originally Posted by new city champ

I’ll just repeat what I posted a few weeks back the day after Zion’s step dad gave that radio interview. I talked to a buddy who is a big Pels supporter and friends with senior management. I expected to hear some good news about how things with Zion were getting patched up following his return from Portland. I did not. He said from the teams point of view things with Zion were probably not salvageable and that Zion would not suit up for he rest of the year regardless of health because—like with AD at the end—they did not want to risk any further injury diminishing his trade value. I continue to hope this is wrong.

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It's pathetic really that Zion and his family can't see the potential of this team over a minor disagreement.

Would you rather have KAT, Vandibilt & Nowell or Zion and Jonas? Think about how long and disruptive Vandibilt is and how much KAT thrives off spotting up at 3.

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Originally Posted by WhyHornetsWhy

Can someone explain why Griff doesn?t want to play Zion?

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Yep

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2022/04/16...nough-to-play/

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Originally Posted by new city champ

I’ll just repeat what I posted a few weeks back the day after Zion’s step dad gave that radio interview. I talked to a buddy who is a big Pels supporter and friends with senior management. I expected to hear some good news about how things with Zion were getting patched up following his return from Portland. I did not. He said from the teams point of view things with Zion were probably not salvageable and that Zion would not suit up for he rest of the year regardless of health because—like with AD at the end—they did not want to risk any further injury diminishing his trade value. I continue to hope this is wrong.

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Pretty much how I feel.

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Originally Posted by new city champ

I?ll just repeat what I posted a few weeks back the day after Zion?s step dad gave that radio interview. I talked to a buddy who is a big Pels supporter and friends with senior management. I expected to hear some good news about how things with Zion were getting patched up following his return from Portland. I did not. He said from the teams point of view things with Zion were probably not salvageable and that Zion would not suit up for he rest of the year regardless of health because?like with AD at the end?they did not want to risk any further injury diminishing his trade value. I continue to hope this is wrong.

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Unfortunately this sounds plausible. If Griffin is hell bent on trading Zion then there is absolutely no benefit for Griffin in having him play in the playoffs.

Either: 1) He gets out there and due to lack of conditioning looks like crap, and his trade value is slightly diminished. Or 2) Gets out there and reinjures himself, which really, really hurts his trade value, or 3) Goes out there and looks good, which gets the fans hopes up about Zion's future with the Pels, which in turns pisses off the fanbase when we trade him for what is undoubtably going to appear to be lesser talent.

Now option 3) is a poor reason not to play him, but unfortunately I can see Griffin making a decision based on this. I think Griffin may think that no matter what Zion looks like in the short term, his long term viability in the NBA is questionable and his current me first mentality hurts the team first atmosphere he's trying to create.

I hope this is incorrect and the organization is purely basing their decision not to play Zion based on medical and coaching evaluation of his health and conditioning.

I will say it again. If Larry Nance or Naji Marshall or insert some other guy who isn’t seen as a long term commodity was at the same exact place medically, they would be cleared to play and playing right now. Nance had one 5-on-5 practice before he returned.

This is 100 percent protecting an asset. It ain’t medical or conditioning or risking messing up chemistry, etc

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I will say it again. If Larry Nance or Naji Marshall or insert some other guy who isn’t seen as a long term commodity was at the same exact place medically, they would be cleared to play and playing right now. Nance had one 5-on-5 practice before he returned.

This is 100 percent protecting an asset. It ain’t medical or conditioning or risking messing up chemistry, etc

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Could it be that Zion needs to meet certain milestones?
Maybe he was told that he needs to be a certain weight and he hasn't met those.

Stuffed if I know. I'm just drawing at straws.
Zion may not play another game as a Pel.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

It's pathetic really that Zion and his family can't see the potential of this team over a minor disagreement.

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Uhhhh at this point the issue is clearly with the front office.

ETA: Obviously neither side is perfect, but it's completely insane to pin 100% of the blame on Zion's camp given what we know now

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I will say it again. If Larry Nance or Naji Marshall or insert some other guy who isn?t seen as a long term commodity was at the same exact place medically, they would be cleared to play and playing right now. Nance had one 5-on-5 practice before he returned.

This is 100 percent protecting an asset. It ain?t medical or conditioning or risking messing up chemistry, etc

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I thought Zion and his camp were happy with Willie, the direction of the franchise, etc.. why is the FO still treating the situation like Zion is not salvageable?

Because if you plan on Zion being a part of this core going forward, you'd be playing him right now. Did things not truly improve? I want to understand where Griff and Co are coming from.

I think there is obviously a lot being unsaid about what is going on behind the public eye with Zion, his injuries, his family, his agency, and the front office. Like MM stated, why the hell would a player that is supposed to be an integral part of your team be allowed to practice 5 on 5 basketball and make between the leg dunks while not being allowed to get 15-20 minutes a game in a playoff series where the Pels have a real shot to win? I think the answer is blatantly obvious now. Zion does not have a long term future in New Orleans. I think Zion?s camp and his very powerful agency representation, CAA, have been working quietly to force his way out to the Knicks who are run by a former CAA super agent. I would bet this injury is being milked by either Zion?s camp and/or the front office to allow the appropriate time to get a nice package deal from the Knicks after Zion signs his extension this summer. Zion?s silence is part of the deal in order to allow this exit to get worked out. When the public turned to blaming Zion and his camp after the all-star break, they had to put some subtle spin out there to deflect some of the blame. I am calling this trade this summer:

Pels send Zion, Graham, and Temple to the Knicks for Julius Randle, Immanuel Quickley, and 3 first round picks.

I think we go into 2022-2023 season with this roster

PG: McCullum/Alvarado/Lewis
SG: Ingram/Quickley/1st round pick
SF: Jones/Murphy/Marshall
PF: Randle/Hayes/1st round pick
C: Valanciunas/Nance Jr./Hernangomez

Randle? That guy quit on new york and it's fans... easy pass for the pels

Screw New York. They have no one I'm interested in. Plus I'm petty and would really rather not see their fans feel vindication. Every time a Zion at Duke clip is circulating on Twitter or Reddit or YouTube they're all "Zion wants to be here!"

The odds of them eventually turning on him for being out of shape or hurt aren't worth it to me.

Make it a bidding war. I want a big who can block a freaking shot and maybe knock down a 3 if given the opportunity.

If we trade him to New York trade him for kyrie or Durant and a A 1st to say screw the knicks and make jj reddick more jealous I rather we keep him but if we trade him I want a superstar back

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Originally Posted by PaKwAn

Randle? That guy quit on new york and it's fans... easy pass for the pels

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Randle loved playing in NOLA. I would quit on Knicks fans too. They’re an insufferable group.

Might have to include Randle to make the money work after we sign Zion to the max (to trade him).

I wouldn't send him to NY though... I mean unless NY has the most attractive trade package. But don't just send him there because that's what his camp wants. If Indiana is offering more you send him there. Whoever.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

It's pathetic really that Zion and his family can't see the potential of this team over a minor disagreement.

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until zion outright says he wants to be traded im going to believe the actual reporting thatt he wants to play. feels like fans are so anxious to just make him a scapegoat

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

I think there is obviously a lot being unsaid about what is going on behind the public eye with Zion, his injuries, his family, his agency, and the front office. Like MM stated, why the hell would a player that is supposed to be an integral part of your team be allowed to practice 5 on 5 basketball and make between the leg dunks while not being allowed to get 15-20 minutes a game in a playoff series where the Pels have a real shot to win? I think the answer is blatantly obvious now. Zion does not have a long term future in New Orleans. I think Zion?s camp and his very powerful agency representation, CAA, have been working quietly to force his way out to the Knicks who are run by a former CAA super agent. I would bet this injury is being milked by either Zion?s camp and/or the front office to allow the appropriate time to get a nice package deal from the Knicks after Zion signs his extension this summer. Zion?s silence is part of the deal in order to allow this exit to get worked out. When the public turned to blaming Zion and his camp after the all-star break, they had to put some subtle spin out there to deflect some of the blame. I am calling this trade this summer:

Pels send Zion, Graham, and Temple to the Knicks for Julius Randle, Immanuel Quickley, and 3 first round picks.

I think we go into 2022-2023 season with this roster

PG: McCullum/Alvarado/Lewis
SG: Ingram/Quickley/1st round pick
SF: Jones/Murphy/Marshall
PF: Randle/Hayes/1st round pick
C: Valanciunas/Nance Jr./Hernangomez

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so you believe mac when he says Zion is healthy enough to play... but you can't also accept that he actually wants to play? how would he still want to play yet somehow the situation is actually irreparable? and in the midst of all this camp has been forcing him out of NO? make up your mind

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

so you believe mac when he says Zion is healthy enough to play... but you can't also accept that he actually wants to play? how would he still want to play yet somehow the situation is actually irreparable? and in the midst of all this camp has been forcing him out of NO? make up your mind

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Your post makes absolutely no sense. I think Zion is healthy enough to play at least 15-20 minutes. I think he wants to play in the playoffs, but the front office values him more as a future asset than allowing him to help win a playoff series, which is why I posted what I did. The way the franchise is treating him does not make sense unless the plan is to preserve his health as much as possible in order to trade him. Otherwise, why wouldn’t you let one of the best if not the best player on your team play and contribute in a playoff series that we have a shot at winning? I suspect the wanting to be traded notion likely came out of Zion’s camp and not initiated by the Pelicans. The Pelicans are trying to make a business decision at this point.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

Your post makes absolutely no sense. I think Zion is healthy enough to play at least 15-20 minutes. I think he wants to play in the playoffs, but the front office values him more as a future asset than allowing him to help win a playoff series, which is why I posted what I did. The way the franchise is treating him does not make sense unless the plan is to preserve his health as much as possible in order to trade him. Otherwise, why wouldn’t you let one of the best if not the best player on your team play and contribute in a playoff series that we have a shot at winning? I suspect the wanting to be traded notion likely came out of Zion’s camp and not initiated by the Pelicans. The Pelicans are trying to make a business decision at this point.

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it makes absolutely no sense that zion would want to still play for this team, regardless if it's simply to play in a playoff atmosphere, if it's his team also initiating trade demands out of NO. i just can't wrap my head around that. everything reported, since before the playoffs, has indicated that zion is dying to play, so why would he still be invested in playing for this team if he ultimately wanted out. makes zero sense

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

it makes absolutely no sense that zion would want to still play for this team, regardless if it's simply to play in a playoff atmosphere, if it's his team also initiating trade demands out of NO. i just can't wrap my head around that. everything reported, since before the playoffs, has indicated that zion is dying to play, so why would he still be invested in playing for this team if he ultimately wanted out. makes zero sense

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If we are to believe Mac, which I do, it’s possible it’s more the Pels finally want to be rid of him and his obnoxious family. I believe the line used was “they liked LaVar Ball better.” Which is totally saying something. I believe it was also said Griffin would’ve already traded him but circumstance or just Gayle wouldn’t let him.

It’s possible the situation is Zion would have zero problems staying here. If the Pelicans acquiesced to his every desire and let him eat and play and eat all he wants without meddling. And Griffin is fed up with repeating himself.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

If we are to believe Mac, which I do, it?s possible it?s more the Pels finally want to be rid of him and his obnoxious family. I believe the line used was ?they liked LaVar Ball better.? Which is totally saying something. I believe it was also said Griffin would?ve already traded him but circumstance or just Gayle wouldn?t let him.

It?s possible the situation is Zion would have zero problems staying here. If the Pelicans acquiesced to his every desire and let him eat and play and eat all he wants without meddling. And Griffin is fed up with repeating himself.

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If this is truly the mindset, it's time for Griffin to go. If you have a chance to salvage the relationship, you take that chance. To throw up your hands and say, "I don't want to deal with it anymore" after the culture has changed this much and there's so much to sell would be malpractice.

Man, if Zion’s family still wants him out given what is going on with THIS team, that is saying something not only about them, but how relationships are maintained in this organization.

I have never been a fan of Griffs. I wouldn’t trust that used underwear salesman any further than I could throw him, but I also don’t trust Zion’s family. I feel they are peas in the same pod, and deserve each other. If they can’t salvage their relationship, and it’s to the detriment of the team’s success I would rather throw them both out.

None of know what has happened behind closed doors so assuming fault is ridiculous. I find it hard to believe that a front office as inept and toxic as some in here seem to believe it is would be able to have a team culture that would weather what happened this season and still be in position to upset the #1 team. Now that doesn't mean I am saying the team is blameless...I am saying it's silly to try to paint one side or the other as the cartoon villain in this

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Originally Posted by DarkHornet

If this is truly the mindset, it's time for Griffin to go. If you have a chance to salvage the relationship, you take that chance. To throw up your hands and say, "I don't want to deal with it anymore" after the culture has changed this much and there's so much to sell would be malpractice.

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There is a statute of limitations though. What if Zion’s people are JUST THAT DELUDED and refuse to listen no matter what? I mean, I think Griffin sucks. But we can’t put this all on him if what we’ve heard is true.