Dell Demps' worse move

Various answers will be provided when asking what was Dell Demps worse move.
Some will tell you, that it was the Jrue trade. I mean giving up 2 picks for Jrue Holiday? Could've just picked up MCW. Only a top 3 protection on the 2nd pick, seriously wtf Dell?
Some will say that it was drafting Rivers, should've went with Henson, Jones, Lamb.. hell probably would've been better off trading the pick.
You might hear some say it was matching Eric Gordon's deal, yeah I guess I could see where an argument could be made there.

If you asked me, I would tell you that Dell's worse move by far was the Tyreke Evans deal. I say this for various reasons.

First let's look back at the roster before that deal was made.
Jrue/Vasquez/Roberts
Gordon/Rivers
Aminu/Miller
Davis/Anderson
Lopez/Smith

That was a solid roster, the only glaring hole seems to be the sf position. So Demps sets out to find us a sf. Midnight hits and he's meeting with Tyreke Evans! Really Dell? Another guard? Apparently they believes he can play the 3, BUT HE CANT SHOOT nor defend 3s, I never understood the fit. But anyways the decision to sign Evans wasn't the killer, how Evans was acquired is what set this Franchise back.

Demps gave up Lopez and Vasquez for Tyreke. Effectively creating a hole at center and backup pg for a player who was redundant to what we already had and did not fill a need. He also killed our cap space with the deal. And I'm sure most people would rather Lopez at $5m than Evans at $11m

So before the Tyreke deal we needed a sf, afterwards we needed a sf and a center. A year later, Demps had to clean up his mess and give up a 1st to acquire asik (nice save). But that 1st and cap space could've been used to get a sf, like Ariza. We also would've still had the money to keep Morrow and Smith.
Our lineup today could've been:
Jrue/Vasquez/Smith
Gordon/Rivers/Morrow
Ariza/Morrow/Miller
Davis/Anderson/Young
Lopez/Smith

With space to add a few more pieces for depth.

Instead we have no picks, no cap space, and no depth.

Nope. Don't match EG and you got money for that SF and Reke. That is the worst move Dell made by far.

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Originally Posted by Mr. West

Nope. Don't match EG and you got money for that SF and Reke. That is the worst move Dell made by far.

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But at least Gordon fits. Teammates have to give up so much of their games in order for Tyreke to be sort of effective. And we all understand why Demps had to match EG. The worse part about the Reke deal is what he gave up to acquire him. Demps got raped, Vasquez and Lopez for Reke. That deal created more holes

I can't imagine any other answer.

One of his moves was an F-. He has had a couple of C's and mostly B's IMO.

There is no debate here

I think matching EG hurt the most. I think getting Jrue and Asik is a HUGE upgrade over Vasquez and Lopez. The Tyreke deal will make more sense when he comes off the bench or gets more of a Ginobili type role. I'm not writing Reke off yet but I think they need to get more consistency and maturity from him now.

Rivers was a bad move. I think he's gonna be gone after this year and I think we could trade Gordon, Anderson, or Tyreke within the next two years.

I honestly think we will resign Asik and Gordon and Rivers will be gone sooner than we realize. Then we will sign a star SF and at least 2 guys that can come off the bench and contribute. I want to give Dell one more phase to put this team together. We're getting closer. Asik and Jrue and Anderson were his best moves.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I can't imagine any other answer.

One of his moves was an F-. He has had a couple of C's and mostly B's IMO.

There is no debate here

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Ryan Anderson = A+
Asik= B (probably)
Jrue= B
Reke=B-
Gordon=F
Salmons=D
Miller=D-
Babbitt=C
Rivers=D+
Ajinca=C+
Jimmer=N/A
Russ=TBD
Young=TBD
Withey=C
AD=A+ (a gift from the basketball Gods)

Average score: C

I love Tyreke on this team, he fits great here. The only move Demps has to regret is giving EG the max.

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Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

Ryan Anderson = A+
Asik= B (probably)
Jrue= B
Reke=B-
Gordon=F
Salmons=D
Miller=D-
Babbitt=C
Rivers=D+
Ajinca=C+
Jimmer=N/A
Russ=TBD
Young=TBD
Withey=C
AD=A+ (a gift from the basketball Gods)

Average score: C

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How is Miller a D- and Rivers a D+?

Grades should be based on realistic expectations for what resource you used to get him. Not like many 46th picks blow up. And its not like a ton of better players were drafted immediately after Rivers. I don't get those grades.

In hindsight the worse transaction was matching Gordon but back then I understood the move.


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A liked, still like, Tyreke, but at the time I thought for sure we'd try for Iggy. Wonder if he was ever on the table to begin with.

But it's irrelevant. He's here now. He's obviously made some strides as a shooter so far. Time will tell, but you can't discount the 3pt% just because it's inconvenient to whatever case you wanna build against him.

Biggest problem is he makes very bizarre choices on the court. Not passing on fast breaks leading to ugly misses or turnovers. And he's been extremely uncharacteristically poor at finishing this season.

But as for saying we could've gotten MCW instead of Jrue. He's a terrible shooter, far worse than Tyreke Evans and even more turnover prone.

None

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

How is Miller a D- and Rivers a D+?

Grades should be based on realistic expectations for what resource you used to get him. Not like many 46th picks blow up. And its not like a ton of better players were drafted immediately after Rivers. I don't get those grades.

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Rivers is a bust and he didnt meet expectations at all. You know why. Yeah, there are busts all over the place in the drafts but everyone who followed college ball thought that this was a bad move and Demps had other options. Trade down. Too much wishful thinking. D+. He gets credit for everything but this grade makes sense because good GMs don't draft guys like Rivers. It's either Demps or Monty. Not gonna say bad luck or this stuff is normal. Questionable scouting.

Miller shouldn't be on this team. Give me a meaningful reason besides he's good for practice. He's not going to help us.

No GM is perfect but Dell has some real blunders. No good GM would sign Gordon to Max. Really bad move. Real bad. Dell screwed up bad.

Dell has been great at little moves and finding diamond role players in the rough but he has been mediocre at establishing a cohesive starting unit.

I continue to chalk a lot of it up to the win now mandate he has had since Benson got here but at the same time, even within that constraint, he hasn't exactly made the best decisions at times. The Jrue trade doesn't look too bad in hindsight, in fact it is probably a net win unless we were planning on a third tank. The Asik trade is good in isolation but when you look at the argument the OP presents very well, the Asik trade was a desperation trade that stemmed from Dells own poor transactions earlier that created more problems then it solved.

I still think the Gordon trade is ultimately the worst in hindsight, but it is also the most justifiable mistake to have made. Gordon was tauted as the next great SG and he showed flashes of it in between injuries. There aren't too many GM's that wouldn't of done what Dell did in his position given the circumstances.

Evans however was purely a decision that Dell made after he knew what this team needed, what the coach wanted and who our centerpiece going forward was going to be. Given that decisions and the alternatives and the snowball effect that decision had - the Evans trade is much less forgivable and much more of an indictment then the Gordon trade IMO.

Gordon was worse, but the Evans signing was a much more damning scar on his resume.

If Rivers becomes a serviceable role player, he cannot be a bust. His expectations were never much higher than starter. No one was saying he was a future All-Star that I saw.

And I say if, but he kind of is a serviceable role player with fringe 6th man ability.

Rivers is a player that has grown from all time bad to a player with average shooting, below average FT shooting, below averag court vision for his position and maybe slightly over average slashing ability. IE a 7 th or 8th man who ceiling is probably an above average 6th man.

The question with rivers though is whether the selection at 10 was better then the alternatives? I would say that has turned out to be no. There were a number of alternatives at ten that would be better for this roster and going forward.

The 2012 draft was deep with talent. It was supposed to be the draft we got two starters for the future out of the CP3 trade. The fact we came out with a above average but undersized 7th man with lingering flaws that likely won't ever fully go away at number 10 is a net loss for us.

This team go as far as AD take them, and AD reply heavy on guards play. You got you answer right there. Hint? whoever have the lowest assist number.

If you go back to when Rivers was drafted, the consensus on the board was that he would be a good starter that scored a lot (go look back and read the threads). He hasn't been that. But in terms of sg's taken after him, there weren't any that were better. There were better players taken after him, but he was the best sg on the board, and Monty had been keeping tabs on him for years prior.

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Originally Posted by Mr. West

Nope. Don't match EG and you got money for that SF and Reke. That is the worst move Dell made by far.

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This EG contract is the biggest anchor holding this team back. He is not a bad player but he is not worth 15 million. Just think if was just making 11 million we could have kept Morrow.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Rivers is a player that has grown from all time bad to a player with average shooting, below average FT shooting, below averag court vision for his position and maybe slightly over average slashing ability. IE a 7 th or 8th man who ceiling is probably an above average 6th man.

The question with rivers though is whether the selection at 10 was better then the alternatives? I would say that has turned out to be no. There were a number of alternatives at ten that would be better for this roster and going forward.

The 2012 draft was deep with talent. It was supposed to be the draft we got two starters for the future out of the CP3 trade. The fact we came out with a above average but undersized 7th man with lingering flaws that likely won't ever fully go away at number 10 is a net loss for us.

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Saying we came away with a net loss is one thing. Saying Rivers is a bust is another.

Rivers at 10 - yeah, you could have gotten someone slightly better, but that does not make it a D+ move. A D+ move is when you do something that severely ties the hands of your organization or when you lose out on a really good player for a really bad one. That did not happen with the Rivers pick. We got a 7th man. Yeah, maybe we could have gotten a 6th man level player like a Terrance Jones, but you didn't miss on greatness and get a bum.

And the grade of D- for Miller still baffles me. Its all about opportunity cost. Spent a worthless asset and minimum contracts on the guy. How can you give a GM a D- for that?

I'm certainly no Gordon lover, but I don't feel that matching the Phoenix offer should realistically be labeled a mistake.... an error in judgement as to his eventual worth perhaps, but I feel a whole lot of people would have missed on that one initially (including this person and the ex-commissioner among others).... now lets fast forward a bit, and I will suggest that the Evan's signing might well have been done with the intent of moving Gordon being a major component of the "master plan". I will also suggest that, unfortunately, this is where the "true" Gordon worth was now recognized by virtually everyone and Demps was then unable to complete his plan as visualized (and probably not anywhere close to it). Now this is strictly my theory on how things might have gone down and I can't substantiate anything in any way... but in sticking with this premise, and based on the assumption that there actually was some interest for Gordon's services, I would just love to know what kind of offers were proposed.... heck, there might even be some other "mistakes" imbedded in there somewhere....

Isn't it amazing how these types of threads come out after a loss? And others praising these same players after a win.

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Originally Posted by Imnos 2

Isn't it amazing how these types of threads come out after a loss? And others praising these same players after a win.

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let me assure you that this kind of "give and take" is as old as dirt..... believe it or not, there was once a time when it was done by word of mouth too....

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Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

Rivers is a bust and he didnt meet expectations at all. You know why. Yeah, there are busts all over the place in the drafts but everyone who followed college ball thought that this was a bad move and Demps had other options. Trade down. Too much wishful thinking. D+. He gets credit for everything but this grade makes sense because good GMs don't draft guys like Rivers. It's either Demps or Monty. Not gonna say bad luck or this stuff is normal. Questionable scouting.

Miller shouldn't be on this team. Give me a meaningful reason besides he's good for practice. He's not going to help us.

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50 bucks says Austin Rivers has a consistent role in this league for 10+ years

2012 was supposed to be a deep draft?
http://www.nbadraft.net/2012-actual-draft
This link will show you how 'deep' that draft was, how many players would you prefer over Rivers now?
It always amazes me that some of the fans always assume that lottery picks=starters/stars.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Rivers is a player that has grown from all time bad to a player with average shooting, below average FT shooting, below averag court vision for his position and maybe slightly over average slashing ability. IE a 7 th or 8th man who ceiling is probably an above average 6th man.

The question with rivers though is whether the selection at 10 was better then the alternatives? I would say that has turned out to be no. There were a number of alternatives at ten that would be better for this roster and going forward.

The 2012 draft was deep with talent. It was supposed to be the draft we got two starters for the future out of the CP3 trade. The fact we came out with a above average but undersized 7th man with lingering flaws that likely won't ever fully go away at number 10 is a net loss for us.

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Originally Posted by joetzeng

2012 was supposed to be a deep draft?
http://www.nbadraft.net/2012-actual-draft
This link will show you how 'deep' that draft was, how many players would you prefer over Rivers now?
It always amazes me that some of the fans always assume that lottery picks=starters/stars.

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Man looking at that draft what happened to Fab Melo, dude was supposed to be a top prospect at Syracuse.

It's interesting, that draft you had AD, Lillard, Drummond, Draymond Green, Waiters, Ross, and a bunch of also-rans.

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Originally Posted by joetzeng

2012 was supposed to be a deep draft?
http://www.nbadraft.net/2012-actual-draft
This link will show you how 'deep' that draft was, how many players would you prefer over Rivers now?
It always amazes me that some of the fans always assume that lottery picks=starters/stars.

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Henson, Jones, Sullinger, Plumlee and Green are all players I would of taken over Rivers. You can make a case for a few others as well.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Henson, Jones, Sullinger, Plumlee and Green are all players I would of taken over Rivers. You can make a case for a few others as well.

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OK but like Mac said, those are all role player types, some of whom may be slightly better overall depending on person to person opinion but not like OMG we missed out on a sure-fire star that everyone and their mama knew would be a sure fire star!! Not to mention 3 maybe 4 of the 5 fit roles that were already occupied by AD and Ryno.

Pistons picked Drummond one spot ahead of us. I'm willing to bet the house that Dell would've taken Drummond instead. .

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Originally Posted by SaintPelican225

Pistons picked Drummond one spot ahead of us. I'm willing to bet the house that Dell would've taken Drummond instead. .

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He would have. Once Barnes went off the board, the top 3 left on his list were:

1. Drummond
2. Rivers
3. (Gulp) Meyers Leonard

Per a good source

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Originally Posted by ramsters60

I'm certainly no Gordon lover, but I don't feel that matching the Phoenix offer should realistically be labeled a mistake.... an error in judgement as to his eventual worth perhaps, but I feel a whole lot of people would have missed on that one initially (including this person and the ex-commissioner among others).... now lets fast forward a bit, and I will suggest that the Evan's signing might well have been done with the intent of moving Gordon being a major component of the "master plan". I will also suggest that, unfortunately, this is where the "true" Gordon worth was now recognized by virtually everyone and Demps was then unable to complete his plan as visualized (and probably not anywhere close to it). Now this is strictly my theory on how things might have gone down and I can't substantiate anything in any way... but in sticking with this premise, and based on the assumption that there actually was some interest for Gordon's services, I would just love to know what kind of offers were proposed.... heck, there might even be some other "mistakes" imbedded in there somewhere....

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I disagree with this rationale. Here's why:

He has a job that only 30 people in the world have. You can't use the 'most other people would have made the same mistake' card in that situation. He is supposed to be different than "us" skill and ability wise. That's what he gets paid for. That's why he has one of only 30 jobs in the world.

And its not after the fact second guessing. At BSS, we had 4+ hours of podcasts begging Demps not to match. We had articles. It was clear as day to me and several others. The only justification for matching was optimism bias. You would have wanted to believe that he could be healthy for those four years, but literally not one piece of evidence supported that as a logical conclusion. As I said back then - "If a guy has been healthy three of the last 4 years, you would call me nuts if I assumed he was going to get hurt next year. So, why is the opposite not considered nuts?"

Bottom line - Dell can't get a pass because a lot of others are optimists too. He has to be above that. He gets an F for that decision. No excuses.

Since this is the most responded in thread I'll ask here instead of starting a new thread. Is the game being broadcast on TV tonight???

I just went to set my dvr on FOx Sports and it isn't there.

I see nothing wrong with the Jrue move. MCW sucks, dude has the greenest light to do whatever he wants on the worst team and still isn't impressive. After the horrible seasons, the rebrand, and Benson taking over it made sense to go for the win now move

Gordon was his biggest mistake, but to be real not many GMs would let Gordon walk for free. The guy showed the ability to be a top 5 SG in the league and was the main piece of the CP3 trade

I am willing to bet Demps regrets Gordon and he's concerned about Reke....

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Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

I am willing to bet Demps regrets Gordon and he's concerned about Reke....

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He's concerned about Reke's contract? Wut? That is up there with the Ryno deal for how good it is.

The universe couldn't handle 15+ years of Davis and Drummond. We'd lead the league in rebounding on both ends of the floor.

Heck, we would have no hole at the SF spot if he hadn't chose Austin Rivers over
Terrance Jones
Moe Harkless
Draymond Greene
Evan Fournier
and Kris Middleton

Gordon. No contest.

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Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans

But at least Gordon fits. Teammates have to give up so much of their games in order for Tyreke to be sort of effective. And we all understand why Demps had to match EG. The worse part about the Reke deal is what he gave up to acquire him. Demps got raped, Vasquez and Lopez for Reke. That deal created more holes

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Vasquez and Lopez for Reke = demps getting raped?? U can't be serious. Lol..I mean my lord I'm not the biggest REKE fan myself but this statement is ludacrious. Matching Gordon's Max contract is his worse move and it's not even close. He has this team on the right track. We are a year or 2 away from being a serious championship contender. Who in the world has ever said the holiday trade was one of his worse moves to date?? That's another ludacrious statement who ever said it or thinks that. Have u seen Noel play?? Yea I'm good. Holiday>mcw by a long shot.

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Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

I am willing to bet Demps regrets Gordon and he's concerned about Reke....

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Do u even know the details of Rekes contract?? Don't think u do or U wouldn't say that.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans_fan_504

Man looking at that draft what happened to Fab Melo, dude was supposed to be a top prospect at Syracuse.

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Flopped but dam imagine if we would've took perry jones 3. Good lord he looks to have developed nicely over the last couple years. Having the benefit of taking it slow and learning behind durant. He is a durant clone size wise. He is very skilled. He was at 1 point projected to be top 5 on the draft. He's a legit SF at 6'11. Good lord him and ad on floor at the 3 and 4 with asik?? Game over,

at the time we couldnt let gordon walk. we had no idea we were going to get lucky in the lottery and it was damage control
yeah, yal like jrue over mcw

tony wroten would have been a much better pick than Rivers too---dont lie

Who the heck would want MCW? I sure as hell wouldn't

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

at the time we couldnt let gordon walk. we had no idea we were going to get lucky in the lottery and it was damage control
yeah, yal like jrue over mcw

tony wroten would have been a much better pick than Rivers too---dont lie

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Actually, we already had AD when we matched Gordon, but I am glad you bring this up because people say this a lot and it is false. So its a good reminder

Id take Terrance Jones instead of Rivers and kept Noel too.

Noel
Davis
Jones

would have eventually jelled while all on rookie deals.

so no asik trade; hence

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

Heck, we would have no hole at the SF spot if he hadn't chose Austin Rivers over
Terrance Jones
Moe Harkless
Draymond Greene
Evan Fournier
and Kris Middleton

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Both Middleton and Green were second round picks, yeah Dell missed them, so did 27 other teams.
Harkless and Fournier have barely done anything in the NBA.
Only real upgrade would probably Jones, but even we drafted him I doubt he'd be the reason whether we win a championship or not.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Actually, we already had AD when we matched Gordon, but I am glad you bring this up because people say this a lot and it is false. So its a good reminder

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Still remember you and Ryan on the pod praying we dont match that contract few years back... wouldve been nice if we took the sign&trade deal from HOU/PHX. Matching EG is by far Dell's worst move imo.

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

at the time we couldnt let gordon walk. we had no idea we were going to get lucky in the lottery and it was damage control
yeah, yal like jrue over mcw

tony wroten would have been a much better pick than Rivers too---dont lie

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Tony wroten?? I'm sure u were saying this back when it was draft time too?? Lol..