Mark Cuban is clueless

Mark Cuban just said that the play-in tournament at the end of the NBA regular season is an "enormous mistake." His primary reason for this opinion: "Rather than playing for a playoff spot and being able to rest players as the standings become clearer, teams have to approach every game as a playoff game."

Has Cuban lost his marbles?! He is arguing that making the regular season more meaningful is BAD. He wants to rest his players for the playoffs so that his pampered players do not have to work as hard. Screw the fans who pay exorbitant prices for tickets to these games at the end of the year. Do fans get a discount if Luka doesn't play in the last week of the regular season to rest up for the playoffs? Hell no!

This is just another case of an NBA owner treating his fans like crap. Fans are the ultimately ones who pay these players' salaries. The #1 priority should be an entertaining product for those who pay their hard-earned money to attend these games. NBA players have plenty of days off to rest, even with the compressed schedule this year. This year they are paid to play 72 regular season games; barring legitimate injury, they should put in the work for all 72 games. Enough of this load management B.S. I don't see Zion complaining about playing 5 games in 7 nights the past week. \

And if Cuban wants his Mavs to rest up before the playoffs, maybe they should have won more games this year. They had poor effort at the start of this season, and now they are paying the price for it.

I really hope the Pelicans get a shot at the Mavs in the play-in tournament so we can send the Mavs home early and let them get more of their precious rest this offseason.

Nah he's right, it does suck

I can see one problem with the play in scenario, especially this season where its possible for teams to have an unequal number of games due to Covid. There is no guarantee that a division winner gets a top 4 seed, they're just going by winning percentage. So Cuban is probably just mad because its possible that the Mavs win the division and still end up in the play in.

There are some positives to the play-in and some downsides too.

For example, Luka was saying in an interview the other day that he hates the play-in because you can play hard all year to get a playoff spot and then right at the end you have some bad games against team that you're arguably clearly better than, since it's just automatically 7th seed VS 8th seed regardless of record, and you're suddenly out of the playoffs, potentially replaced by someone as low as the 10th seed, despite being far better in the actual regular season.

And this isn't Luka being a sore loser type who is worried that the Mavs just aren't doing better - he's said before that you shouldn't be in the MVP race unless your team is a top 2 seed, when asked about himself being an MVP candidate so he's willing to accept less for himself without doing the PR shtick - it just clearly is a problem.

Not that I think Cuban actually cares for those logistical reasons.

Edit: fixed it cause I got the play-in matchups wrong, should have checked before posting lmao

The 7th and 8th seed has to lose twice to not make it. Otherwise just win once. Not sure of the logistics but I assume both games are at the higher seeds arena. All of that are very nice odds for the 7th/8th seed.

If you lose twice in that circumstance, you don't deserve to be there. Your record isn't always what it says you are. It's all about who's the hot team at the right time of the year.

If you don't want to worry about it, then be good enough to be top 6.

I actually really like the idea of the play in tournament. It also makes a lot of sense because of the shortened season. It makes the end of the season much more interesting.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

The 7th and 8th seed has to lose twice to not make it. Otherwise just win once. Not sure of the logistics but I assume both games are at the higher seeds arena. All of that are very nice odds for the 7th/8th seed.

If you lose twice in that circumstance, you don't deserve to be there. Your record isn't always what it says you are. It's all about who's the hot team at the right time of the year.

If you don't want to worry about it, then be good enough to be top 6.

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Sure but that's part of the issue for some people, I assume. It used to be ''if you want to be in the playoffs, don't complain, just be good enough to be top 8'' and in the West even that was a bloodbath: you could be a damn good team and finish with a +.500 record and still miss the playoffs. OKC missing the playoffs with a 45-37 record back in 2014-15 comes to mind.

Now, the margins are even tighter. If you want to guarantee you have a playoff spot you have to make sure that you're a top six team, which is even more restrictive. In most years that means unless you're a 47 or 48 win team, you have no playoff berth secured. In the West, that sucks. Especially because as you say, a lot of it is about who is hot at what time.

It's possible to imagine a scenario in the West in which you play hard all year, finish up with something like 48 wins, and then have one bad shooting night one game and then the other team hits a hail mary half-court buzzer beater the next game and all of a sudden you're missing the playoffs with 48 wins whereas the 39 win team that had the 10th seed makes it in basically just off of luck.

Whether you think the play-ins are good or not is irrelevant, it doesn't take a genius to see why that could really tick a strong 7th seed off.

I can see the downsides, but I also see that this is pretty much self-serving since the Mavs happen to be in the 7th slot.

If you can't win a single game, out of TWO opportunities on your home floor against the 9th/10th seed, then you simply don't belong. You might have the current 7th/8th seed because of some crazy regular season buzzer beater or just by being the healthier team to begin with. It works both ways.

I guarantee you if Dallas is currently 9th or 10th, Luka and Mark wouldn't have anything to say.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

If you can't win a single game, out of TWO opportunities on your home floor against the 9th/10th seed, then you simply don't belong. You might have the current 7th/8th seed because of some crazy regular season buzzer beater or just by being the healthier team to begin with. It works both ways.

I guarantee you if Dallas is currently 9th or 10th, Luka and Mark wouldn't have anything to say.

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Well no, I agree that they wouldn't have much to say - Mark, at least. Luka might, since he's generally been very ''winning records are what deserve prizes'' in his talk in the past.

That said, you don't generally have a record 10+ games better than another team because of one random buzzer beater or whatever, which was the scenario I outlined. If we were a 7th seed that ended up missing the playoffs to a team with 10 fewer wins because of a bad weekend, I promise you people on this site would be absolutely fuming about it, and it's not hard to see why.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Well no, I agree that they wouldn't have much to say - Mark, at least. Luka might, since he's generally been very ''winning records are what deserve prizes'' in his talk in the past.

That said, you don't generally have a record 10+ games better than another team because of one random buzzer beater or whatever, which was the scenario I outlined. If we were a 7th seed that ended up missing the playoffs to a team with 10 fewer wins because of a bad weekend, I promise you people on this site would be absolutely fuming about it, and it's not hard to see why.

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Incredibly, I agree with you.

I think play-ins are a bad idea honestly. I’m not complaining if we benefit from it, but I’d feel hard done if one of my guys got injured by some bozo in one of those games or the other team fluked their way to victory after working my arse off to get that 8th-7th seed. I guess because of COVID you can kind of justify it, but it should be scrapped after this year.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

I think play-ins are a bad idea honestly. I’m not complaining if we benefit from it, but I’d feel hard done if one of my guys got injured by some bozo in one of those games or the other team fluked their way to victory after working my arse off to get that 8th-7th seed. I guess because of COVID you can kind of justify it, but it should be scrapped after this year.

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Agreed. Too much flukey stuff can happen in the space of a game or two to negate the whole season.

Flattening out the Lottery odds was a much better way to prevent tanking

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Well no, I agree that they wouldn't have much to say - Mark, at least. Luka might, since he's generally been very ''winning records are what deserve prizes'' in his talk in the past.

That said, you don't generally have a record 10+ games better than another team because of one random buzzer beater or whatever, which was the scenario I outlined. If we were a 7th seed that ended up missing the playoffs to a team with 10 fewer wins because of a bad weekend, I promise you people on this site would be absolutely fuming about it, and it's not hard to see why.

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I wouldn't.

The Saints were 11 - 5 and because of how the football playoffs are set up, had to play on the road, across the country in Seattle against the 7 - 9 Seahawks. They lost the game.

I didnt get mad at the system that the Saints had to go play on the road to a losing team. They should have won that game. Period.

This play in is even more forgiving. The 7/8 seed can lose a play-in game and still get in.

It's an absolutely ridiculous notion that you can be mad at that advantage. If you lose to that lower seed TWICE on your home floor, just be quiet and go home. You didn't deserve to be there.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Agreed. Too much flukey stuff can happen in the space of a game or two to negate the whole season.

Flattening out the Lottery odds was a much better way to prevent tanking

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That and it just adds more miles to the tank for players that have already played a ton in a condensed schedule. It’s already difficult enough for the 8th/7th seed having to face the top two teams respectively. Are we going to put them at an even further disadvantage for the sake of creating “artificial stakes?” It’s just unfair. I can see why they may have done it these past two seasons for COVID related reasons, but it absolutely needs to be scrapped.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

I wouldn't.

The Saints were 11 - 5 and because of how the football playoffs are set up, had to play on the road, across the country in Seattle against the 7 - 9 Seahawks. They lost the game.

I didnt get mad at the system that the Saints had to go play on the road to a losing team. They should have won that game. Period.

This play in is even more forgiving. The 7/8 seed can lose a play-in game and still get in.

It's an absolutely ridiculous notion that you can be mad at that advantage. If you lose to that lower seed TWICE on your home floor, just be quiet and go home. You didn't deserve to be there.

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I don't follow football but isn't the entire premise of the NFL stuff that you only play each team once though, and there're only a handful of games, and then the playoffs are just one game and not a series in the first place? So it's a very different style of sport, where in one system it's about trying to capture every single game and in the other its about trying to accumulate a more significant overall advantage. Surely that would impact the way that teams trained, gameplanned, etc; if you went into fewer games but had a week between each one and playoffs were single elimination, the way NBA teams plan and train and coach would be totally different, right?

I could be totally off in that evaluation though, do teams play series in the NFL? I don't know. Total admission of ignorance here; the sum total of my NFL knowledge is that Tom Brady wins a lot, Drew Brees is apparently very accurate (and just retired?), Marshawn Lynch exists, and Patrick Mahomes is Jesus according to some.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I don't follow football but isn't the entire premise of the NFL stuff that you only play each team once though, and there're only a handful of games, and then the playoffs are just one game and not a series in the first place? So it's a very different style of sport, where in one system it's about trying to capture every single game and in the other its about trying to accumulate a more significant overall advantage. Surely that would impact the way that teams trained, gameplanned, etc; if you went into fewer games but had a week between each one and playoffs were single elimination, the way NBA teams plan and train and coach would be totally different, right?

I could be totally off in that evaluation though, do teams play series in the NFL? I don't know. Total admission of ignorance here; the sum total of my NFL knowledge is that Tom Brady wins a lot, Drew Brees is apparently very accurate (and just retired?), Marshawn Lynch exists, and Patrick Mahomes is Jesus according to some.

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No you play your division opponents twice to account for 8 games. The other 9 games (was 8 last year) are structured.

Still, you are also trying to accumulate a significant overall advantage. The top seed (was the top 2 seeds) go straight to the second round and get a week off. So in football those at the very top get a significant advantage. Division winners get a significant advantage even if they have a losing record. And until last year, only 6 teams out of 16 in each conference even went to the playoffs. They just expanded it to 7 of 16.

In the NBA, you are taking 8 out of a possible 15 in each conference to the playoffs. Thats comparatively a lot. So its not asking much for the bottom to fight it out, or the 7/8 to just win ONE extra game on their home court. Your advantage remains. You get 2 shots at home to beat a team you should beat ONE time.

It's revenue for the NBA and more meaningful excitement for fans. Last year Ja was whining about the play-in when they were in that 8th seed. Now it's a player/owner in the 7th seed doing it. This is probably going to be a broken record.

I think the only change I'd make to the current play-in format would be that the final elimination round should be the higher seed needing to lose twice (obviously with home court both times). If you're 7 or 8, you should have a significant advantage. A team on the outside of the top 8 should really have to earn that spot.

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Originally Posted by DarkHornet

I think the only change I'd make to the current play-in format would be that the final elimination round should be the higher seed needing to lose twice (obviously with home court both times). If you're 7 or 8, you should have a significant advantage. A team on the outside of the top 8 should really have to earn that spot.

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This is how it is currently constructed. The 7/8 seed has to lose twice to not make it. And the 8 seed is guaranteed at least one game at home against a lower seed if they lose the 1st game.

The winner of the 7th/8th game is the 7th seed. The loser plays the winner of the 9th/10th game and that winner gets the 8th seed. Meaning for a 7th seed to not make the playoffs, they'd have to lose to the 8th seed and then lose to either the 9th or 10th. If you go 0-2 vs the 8 and 9/10, methinks your chances weren't very good against the 2 seed (in the traditional format) anyway.

If Dallas was a top 4 team in the conference Cuban would love it. Stop whining and finish the season.

I remember when they call this the Zion rule to get him into the playoffs. I feel it's still pretty true.

I feel like this rule would of served better in the 50/49 win lottery team era of of West being a death gauntlet. Now... Not really. The 9th and 10th seeds in both conferences now don't have the justification to get in. So, I still think that this is 100% the Zion rule, because it's the only beneficial reason why this got inserted in such a weird way in the 1st place. I'm not even sure a 7th or 8th ever won a championship.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

I remember when they call this the Zion rule to get him into the playoffs. I feel it's still pretty true.

I feel like this rule would of served better in the 50/49 win lottery team era of of West being a death gauntlet. Now... Not really. The 9th and 10th seeds in both conferences now don't have the justification to get in. So, I still think that this is 100% the Zion rule, because it's the only beneficial reason why this got inserted in such a weird way in the 1st place. I'm not even sure a 7th or 8th ever won a championship.

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You would be correct, no 7th or 8th seed has ever won the chip. Nor has a 5th seed.

And only one 6th seed ever has (1995 Rockets). And only one 4th seed (1969 Celtics). If you're trying to say that the 7th and 8th seeds should essentially be thrown away into a one-or-two game tossup because nobody's ever won from there, you might as well make it a tournament for everyone that doesn't make a top 3 seed because your chances of a ring from 4th-8th are all pretty much nonexistent.

I think deciding that it's the Zion rule is kind of silly. Not only did it not actually benefit Zion last year, it probably won't benefit him this year either, and besides, when has the NBA ever fudged stuff to the point of making huge changes to how playoff seeding even works for any singular player, let alone one on the New Orleans Pelicans?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

You would be correct, no 7th or 8th seed has ever won the chip. Nor has a 5th seed.

And only one 6th seed ever has (1995 Rockets). And only one 4th seed (1969 Celtics). If you're trying to say that the 7th and 8th seeds should essentially be thrown away into a one-or-two game tossup because nobody's ever won from there, you might as well make it a tournament for everyone that doesn't make a top 3 seed because your chances of a ring from 4th-8th are all pretty much nonexistent.

I think deciding that it's the Zion rule is kind of silly. Not only did it not actually benefit Zion last year, it probably won't benefit him this year either, and besides, when has the NBA ever fudged stuff to the point of making huge changes to how playoff seeding even works for any singular player, let alone one on the New Orleans Pelicans?

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Zion rule is just delusional hatred started by NBA reddit, but I'm not gonna pretend NBA didn't try to create a fair but flawed system logically to create an interest and opportunity for box office Zion to getting playoff spotlight. So, I call it the Zion rule only in jest.