Sorry, I am not normally a "trade idea" guy but I can't help thinking that this Gordon for Martin trade has to go down in some form eventually. It just makes sense for both teams as I see it, and my thinking is that it has been discussed but that Dell is betting that with a good start by Gordon that he can get more from Minnesota in January or February. Minnesota doesn't seem to be bottoming out, as evidenced by the fact they are swapping Bennett for Young, and I think Gordon fits well there.
A Martin and Brewer for Gordon trade increases their payroll by 3 mil in 2015-16, but decreases it by 7.4 mil the following year, and that is only if Gordon opts in. If he opts out, they really save some money. I remember reading a rumor on here that Minny put Martin on the table for us, and I believe it. But I believe Dell wants more and he will be able to ask for it when Gordon starts off strong this year. Here are some assets the Wolves have:
Their 2015 pick
Miami's 2015 pick
Denvers 2015 2nd rounder
Glenn Robinson III
Shabazz
Zach Lavine
Dieng
Let's say that they will already give us Brewer and Martin. And let's also say Gordon starts off looking good and is like 85% of what he was at his peak in LA. What else do you think would be reasonable to ask for them to throw in? Or would you keep Gordon no matter what if he was looking that good?
Can't get the Gordon for Martin swap out of my mind
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08-08-2014, 04:13 PMAbove the RimCan't get the Gordon for Martin swap out of my mind
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08-08-2014, 04:16 PMcgrand
gordon has a 15% trade kicker
deal killer -
08-08-2014, 04:23 PMAbove the RimIt is 2.25 million dollars. That is not exactly a killer.Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrand
The Pels would be saving money if they did, say, Gordon for Brewer, Martin, and Miami's 1st so that more than cancels out that cost.
Martin, Brewer, kicker cost (if Pels offered Minny cash to pay it) = $13 million
Gordon = $14.9
I don't see how this trade kicker that everyone is so afraid of stops a deal like this. -
08-08-2014, 04:34 PMAbove the Rim
Or maybe the kicker is 4.5 mil. I don't know how those things work - if it is based on the current year or total remaining contract. Either way, it all comes down to whether you believe the poster who said Minny offered us Martin for Gordon. If you do, then they know about the kicker and are fine with it. Under that scenario, I still think we can hear whispers of this trade down the line if Gordon starts off well, with Dell getting some nice pieces in return.
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08-08-2014, 04:42 PMcgrand
its 15% this year and next year (which is a player option)
you might be right though, they might make the offer anyway, but i'd be shocked if they did
i think the days of trading picks/assets for salary relief are coming to a close
when the new TV deals are made, the cap is going to have so much room, these deals wont be worth it
it would be different if you (or minny) wanted to do the trade because you wanted gordon...
if you want to make the case for why gordon is a good fit in minny going forward, lets do that -
08-08-2014, 05:18 PMAbove the Rim
I don't want to waste my time trying to think like Minnesota. Again, this is just based on believing one of our fellow posters. If his info was good, I wonder why Dell said no. This is the best I can come up with. I think he believes Eric can come out strong next year and he can get more in February, especially if Gordon was playing so well that he was dropping hints about opting out
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08-09-2014, 02:08 AMScoutWithoutClout
Eric Gordon - $14,898,938
vs.
Kevin Martin - $6,792,500
Corey Brewer - $4,702,500
Alexey Shved - $3,282,057
--------------- = $14,777,057
if dell could add whitney and pull glenn robinson III some kind of way...omg -
08-09-2014, 02:30 AMAUSSIE_PELICANShe deadQuote:
Originally Posted by ScoutWithoutClout
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08-09-2014, 09:14 AMBP225
The problem with a Gordon for Kevin Martin swap is that he still takes up enough cap space that you're practically limited to using the MLE to improve the SF position the same as if you had Gordon, only he's older and under contract to you longer. Your total salary may be more with Gordon, but the moves you can make are just as limited. I take that back, you'd have roughly $4 million in cap space (assuming a $67 million cap and resigning Asik for $12), so you could trade Rivers and a scrub for an $8 million player, something you couldn't do with Gordon on the books (it'd only be a $6 million trade). Other than that though, Martin takes up enough cap space that your moves are just as limited. I can see where that would fit into the long term plan anyway, but the question then becomes is Kevin Martin for 3 years better than Gordon for 2 just in terms of basketball, not salary.
And you'd want Mbah A Moute back, not Brewer. Brewer has a $5 million player option next year, which would kill the Rivers and scrub for $8 million trade target option while Mbah A Moute is expiring. -
08-09-2014, 10:44 AMPelicanFever
I think Dell keeps Gordon no matter what this season. Remember, this is a must-win season for Dell in order for him to keep his job. He doesn't have the job security to look to the future.
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08-09-2014, 11:02 AMHoustonPelicans
This deal sucks for us to be honest. It only made sense when we needed to clear space for the Asik deal.
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08-09-2014, 11:14 AMcgrand
agree that Gordon is here for the year and probably some or all of 2015
next year he either opts out (see ya) or opts in and becomes an expiring deal
regardless of how he plays this year I think the damage is done on his rep and teams know that they can wait it out and get him without giving up anything if they decide they want him -
08-09-2014, 03:25 PMAbove the RimI don't love it, but why would it suck? Martin has put up similar or better numbers as Gordon over the last 3 yrs and is half the pice. Brewer is better than Salmons. You save money this year and next year, and you ask for another asset like a pick or a guy on a rookie deal. PLUS, Martin is fine coming off the bench. We haven't heard Gordon say he is. You do this, and Tyreke can start at the 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans
I don't see a deal that sucks personally. -
08-09-2014, 03:45 PMjgmansays who?Quote:
Originally Posted by PelicanFever
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08-09-2014, 04:44 PMAbove the Rim
Even if thats true, I still don't see why Gordon is necessary to win. I mean, if AD becomes a stud, how could a team of Jrue, Tyreke, Ryno, AD, and Asik with some good to great role players not make the playoffs? Gordon is our 5th or 6th best player, even when healthy. I can't imagine a team with Gordon would be much better than a team with Martin and Brewer - and our four other offensive studs getting more touches because we don't have to give any to Gordon.
Trading him for nothing, now I agree Dell won't do that. But solid role players, like what Toronto got for Gay. That would be ideal. -
08-09-2014, 05:25 PMjgman
I think once it gets closer to the deadline, or closer to the end of his deal, we can get a better deal
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08-09-2014, 06:04 PMAbove the Rim
With so many teams having expirings and non-guantanteed contracts becoming the new "in" thing, far more valuable than expirings, I think the only way he ever gets us anything of value is if he plays well. He has to come out strong in the first half of next year. If he does, I think it can get peoples' attention. SG is such a thin position around the league
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08-09-2014, 07:31 PMBiasvasospasm
I'm not 100% sure we can generate enough cap space to make this a worthwhile venture, but a consideration would be to stretch Gordon, SF into cap space, Asik into bird rights. From then off, will exist only as an over-the-cap team.
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08-09-2014, 07:43 PMAUSSIE_PELICAN
So without stretching Gordon or him signing elsewhere we still won't have enough cap to sign a SF free agent like
Draymond Green and re-sign Asik for around 10-12M? -
08-09-2014, 10:47 PMAbove the RimThe main 5 guys, Rivers, and Asik's cap hold brings us close to the cap by themselves. Only way to get a SF would be to get rid of Gordon.Quote:
Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN
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08-09-2014, 11:17 PMAUSSIE_PELICANI was talking about next season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Above the Rim
Is that the case for next season too? -
08-10-2014, 01:20 AMAbove the RimYes. Notice I said cap hold. Not cap figure. So, that means I have to be talking about next season.Quote:
Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN
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08-10-2014, 01:59 AMPelicans25_ZEROQuote:
Originally Posted by cgrand
The cap will go up, but so will player contracts, this "Extra room" you speak of will not be there, it's why lebron only signed a two year deal, all these players know that salaries will jump exponentially. Just because the cap will raise doesn't mean we will have all this extra space, deals will be redone, players will want more. I have no idea where you came up with this line of thought. Salary dumps will always exist, unless a CBA comes along in the future that will restrict it. Which is not going to happen. The cap raising will not change how trades in the NBA have been done for years now. -
08-10-2014, 03:33 AMAUSSIE_PELICANOk thank youQuote:
Originally Posted by Above the Rim
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08-11-2014, 10:50 AMcgrandcontract amounts will go up, but not every team has/will have players worthy of the "max" dealQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelicans25_ZERO
i believe that the cap will increase by more than the smarter teams are willing to pay for middling players
take davis off the pels, and tell me what player is worth 20- 30% of the salary cap
salary dumps will be less and less necessary as the cap increases
smarter teams will be less likely to need to dump money for nothing