Losing AD

The reality is we lost the best player in franchise history. For me, it’s a huge loss. I’m excited about getting Zion and if he comes even close to ADs level I’ll be thrilled. After thinking about it, I think we could have gotten screwed in this Lakers trade. Most picks don’t do well in this league. We can only hope we get lucky. So, what we do with the draft picks will be the final piece of this trade.

I wish Rich Paul and ADs father didn’t interfere with the possible Celtics trade. Ingram, Ball and Hart are not star players. Lonzo could become a star but he has a lot of work to do. Ingram and Hart are more like Role Players imo. Ingram reminds me of Carmelo expect Carmelo was better at winning. These kids are young and we can only hope that they improve but even if they get better the Celtics trade would have been far better than the lakers trade.

The best thing so far is we got lucky and are getting Zion. The amazing thing is that JJ Redick signed with us and we added Favors. I’m real excited about these players. We’ll see what happens with Hayes and Alexander-Walker. I hope they develop into impact players. But, when you have Favors with Zion, Jrue and Redick on the court that’s pretty darn good.

I hate AD and think he’s trashy. But, he’s WAY better than anyone on our team. The Lakers probably won the trade. Do y’all think this is the best trade we could have gotten?


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AD is obviously a superstar.

He's also an injury prone 26 year old big man going on about 31 years old. While it's obviously not his fault that he was given a crappy supporting cast, he never elevated the Pelicans past mid-level mediocrity at best. The Pels were essentially stuck in NBA purgatory as long as AD was the focal point.

New Orleans needed a full blown, 100% blow up and rebuild. And that's exactly what they have done. This is arguably the best "blow up and start over completely" I have ever seen. And I've been watching NBA ball for 30 years.

In regards to the trade itself, NBA history is LOADED with examples of where the team that gave up the superstar in exchange for tremendous potential came out the winner. See the Celtics/Nets deal of 2011....

I think you're being unreasonable and doom-mongering.

We don't know who won the trade yet. If LA signs Kawhi and wins three rings, obviously they won the trade. But if Kawhi stays in Toronto, forcing them to miss out on a superstar this summer, and Lebron declines before they can sign another one in 2021, resulting in them winning no rings in the next 5 years, at the same time that we build a reliable and sustainable winner, then we clearly win the trade. Especially if we use the Lakers draft picks to get someone special, or if Lonzo/Ingram break out into all-star calibre players.

You say that Ingram reminds you of Carmelo, except Carmelo was ''better at winning''.

Remind me of something Carmelo won in the NBA? Ever. His entire career. No rings, no MVP awards, no DPOY awards, no 6MOY awards, one playoff trip in the last decade. Meanwhile, while I agree that Ingram has not won anything yet in his career, he's at least only 21. He has another 15 years to add to his resume: Melo is done, washed, and garbage now.

I think it's the best trade that we could have gotten, because if it wasn't, Griff would have taken the better deal. I think Boston COULD have offered something better, but they didn't. Ainge got cold feet. LAC maybe COULD have offered somethign better, but they didn't. If Griff took it, I'm willing to accept it's the best thing that was on the table, and it's not like it's a half-bad trade. It's way better than we could have got.

Yeah, when you lose a top 5 player it always hurts. It always feels like you missed out on something, and we did. AD is a top 5 player, and we could have had more success with him here, but we didn't. In the 6 months since he asked out, we have done everything right, and we have a better shot at a bright future than basically anyone in the league. So I'm happy.

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Originally Posted by Bethany Dildos

AD is obviously a superstar.

He's also an injury prone 26 year old big man going on about 31 years old. While it's obviously not his fault that he was given a crappy supporting cast, he never elevated the Pelicans past mid-level mediocrity at best. The Pels were essentially stuck in NBA purgatory as long as AD was the focal point.

New Orleans needed a full blown, 100% blow up and rebuild. And that's exactly what they have done. This is arguably the best "blow up and start over completely" I have ever seen. And I've been watching NBA ball for 30 years.

In regards to the trade itself, NBA history is LOADED with examples of where the team that gave up the superstar in exchange for tremendous potential came out the winner. See the Celtics/Nets deal of 2011....

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I agree we needed a reboot and fresh start. That prior management of the team almost done us in. Thanks AD for your service. Bye Felicia

Perhaps Anthony Davis' Ego is bigger than he let on. Or his knowledge of basketball history is sorely deficient. He recently recited his All Time Laker Team. He rattled off.....

Magic Johnson
Kobe Bryant
LeBron James (one year injury-plaqued season)
Shaquille O'Neal
Himself (never mind he's yet to don a Laker uniform).

Poor Anthony didn't even consider...

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Elgin Baylor
Jerry West
George Mikan
James Worthy

I believe in self-promotion, but, but "Come On, Man"!!!

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Originally Posted by Bethany Dildos

AD is obviously a superstar.

He's also an injury prone 26 year old big man going on about 31 years old. While it's obviously not his fault that he was given a crappy supporting cast, he never elevated the Pelicans past mid-level mediocrity at best. The Pels were essentially stuck in NBA purgatory as long as AD was the focal point.

New Orleans needed a full blown, 100% blow up and rebuild. And that's exactly what they have done. This is arguably the best "blow up and start over completely" I have ever seen. And I've been watching NBA ball for 30 years.

In regards to the trade itself, NBA history is LOADED with examples of where the team that gave up the superstar in exchange for tremendous potential came out the winner. See the Celtics/Nets deal of 2011....

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Anthony Davis was not given a "crappy" supporting cast while here. At all. An injured one maybe including himself. But not anywhere near "crappy".

The Portland Traiblazers sure as hell wouldn't call it "crappy", who just went to the WCF. Please stop that nonsense.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Anthony Davis was not given a "crappy" supporting cast while here. At all. An injured one maybe including himself. But not anywhere near "crappy".

The Portland Traiblazers sure as hell wouldn't call it "crappy", who just went to the WCF. Please stop that nonsense.

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The worst thing you can say about a professional athlete is that (s)he is 'soft'.

Anthony Davis is SOFT!!!!!

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Anthony Davis was not given a "crappy" supporting cast while here. At all. An injured one maybe including himself. But not anywhere near "crappy".

The Portland Traiblazers sure as hell wouldn't call it "crappy", who just went to the WCF. Please stop that nonsense.

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You may be suffering from recency bias. Sure, over the last two years or so, we had a pretty good team. It was hardly great, but it wasn't terrible.

But AD played years here where his top 5 team mates by number of minutes played included guys like Alonzo Gee, Dante Cunningham, and Brian Roberts.

For many years, this team was crap. When AD was 20, we played Greg Stiemmsa for over 1000 minutes. Anthony Morrow played more minutes than Jrue Holiday that year. We weren't the worst team in the league, sure, but we still were not good at all.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

You may be suffering from recency bias. Sure, over the last two years or so, we had a pretty good team. It was hardly great, but it wasn't terrible.

But AD played years here where his top 5 team mates by number of minutes played included guys like Alonzo Gee, Dante Cunningham, and Brian Roberts.

For many years, this team was crap. When AD was 20, we played Greg Stiemmsa for over 1000 minutes. Anthony Morrow played more minutes than Jrue Holiday that year. We weren't the worst team in the league, sure, but we still were not good at all.

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Firstly, your argument makes no sense. When AD first got here, the team was still tanking. It did not go straight into "win now" mode the day he got drafted. So whom he played with when he was 20 is irrelevant. He wasn't even ready to win yet. Stil a bean pole and very raw offensively.

Secondly, minutes played does not describe who was available on the roster. A couple of his years here, there was a graphic that showed the Pelicans roster was one of the most injured teams in all sports in all times simply measured by GAMES/MINUTES LOST due to injury. So if you are going to talk about who AD was on the floor with according to minutes played, you also need to talk about whom WASN'T on the floor due to minutes lost.

Hell the other year they made the playoffs, a current cornerstone on the franchise today, Jrue Holiday, barely played at all that year. He was injured 3/4 of that year and they still made enough of a run to get the 8th seed. They certainly would have gotten a higher seed with a healthy Jrue Holiday. And that was way back in 2015, so recency bias??

Thats no "recency bias". From the time the franchise started investing in a franchise built to win, he was not surrounded by a "crappy" supporting cast by ANY measure. Thats overused hyperbole at best.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Secondly, minutes played does not describe who was available on the roster. A couple of his years here, there was a graphic that showed the Pelicans roster was one of the most injured teams in all sports in all times simply measured by GAMES/MINUTES LOST due to injury. So if you are going to talk about who AD was on the floor with according to minutes played, you also need to talk about whom WASN'T on the floor due to minutes lost..

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While I appreciate the attention to technicality, I would question whether there is a functional difference between (for AD, on court) between a team which doesn't hae good players and a team which has good players who are not there due to injury.

Edit: I would also add, regardless of whether you think the roster was bad or not, you cannot look at a team which is investing HEAVY minutes into people like Tim Frazier, Dante Cunningham, Terrence Jones, and Solomon Hill and say ''oh yeah, that roster is just dandy''.

Anthony Davis did nothing to elevate the play on this team. Like him or not, LBJ made the players around him serviceable and led under-manned teams to the playoffs (and championship) several times. Just this year, absent Kawhi Leonard, Toronto is just a second tier team.

Superstars manifest championships; they transcend expectations. Gaudy 'do nothing' numbers, do not necessarily translate into super-stardom. Until proven otherwise, Anthony Davis is a 'B-Lister' with a low basketball IQ and is extraordinarily SOFT (has he fully recovered yet from his sprained 'pinky' yet?). Perhaps he turns into an adequate 'Scottie Pippen' to LBJ's Michael Jordan. But he will never be the elite one on a winning team....any winning team.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

While I appreciate the attention to technicality, I would question whether there is a functional difference between (for AD, on court) between a team which doesn't hae good players and a team which has good players who are not there due to injury.

Edit: I would also add, regardless of whether you think the roster was bad or not, you cannot look at a team which is investing HEAVY minutes into people like Tim Frazier, Dante Cunningham, Terrence Jones, and Solomon Hill and say ''oh yeah, that roster is just dandy''.

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None of the players you listed averaged more than 25 minutes with the Pelicans. Terrance Jones averaged less minutes with the Pelicans than he did with Houston. Solomon Hill averaged 18 minutes his last 2 years here. Dante Cunnigham started 50% of his games and averaged 25 minutes/game here.

So here we are again with the hyperbole "HEAVY" minutes.

Here is the injury/salary dollars graphic (which sums up the AD era in New Orleans of important players missing too many games):

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Originally Posted by luckyman

None of the players you listed averaged more than 25 minutes with the Pelicans. Terrance Jones averaged less minutes with the Pelicans than he did with Houston. Solomon Hill averaged 18 minutes his last 2 years here. Dante Cunnigham started 50% of his games and averaged 25 minutes/game here.

So here we are again with the hyperbole "HEAVY" minutes.

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You're being absurd. Not one time have I dismissed that we have had injury troubles. Not one single time. Congratulations on pulling up a graph to argue for a position I never disputed.

Similarly, I never said that those players were like, top three guys on our team. I said that we used them to soak up minutes, heavily. Did we?

Terrence Jones played over 1200 minutes in his season with us. You're telling me that's not a lot of minutes? It was 7th most on our entire team.
You know who played the 6th most minutes on our team that year? Tim Frazier! Who played over 1500 minutes for the team.
You know who played the 5th most minutes on our team that year? Dante Cunningham! Who played 1649 minutes for us.
In that same year, Solomon Hill started more games for the New Orleans Pelicans than literally any other member of the team, and racked up a total of 2374 minutes of play time, good for 2nd on the entire team after Davis.

You're telling me when we have years where we invest 2000+ minutes into Solomon Hill and 1500+ minutes into both Tim Frazier and Dante Cunningham that we aren't heavily investing minutes into those names? Really? Is that the hill you want to die on?

I cannot believe it is 2019 and I'm having to argue the idea that the New Orleans Pelicans have played crap players for far too many minutes, far too often for the last several years. What is this, bizarro world?

IMO luckyman is right. The team built around Davis wasn’t perfect but definitely wasn’t terrible and it’s really difficult to judge it how much they could win due to all the injuries. Dell Demps was unlucky

I've moved on. Lets goooo!

This team was never good enough to win a title with AD and it would more than likely have never been good enough- even when we had Boogie. Injuries or not, we didn’t do a good enough job of team building during his time here. I’d say we are set up very well now as opposed to the AD era, so I am excited.

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Originally Posted by PolishFan

…….....Dell Demps was unlucky

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The contracts given to Omar Asik,and Solomon Hill that hamstrung the organization...
What the team gave up for the rental of Boogie Cousins...
Renewing Eric Gordon's contract when he had no desire to be a part of the team...
Trading away a litany of first round draft picks for peanuts...
How he handled the whole Anthony Davis situation...

are not unlucky quirks of fate; rather, they are signs of utter incompetence at the highest level of team management during Demp' tenure. The more we see David Griffin operate, the more any, objective, fan has to draw that conclusion.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

You're being absurd. Not one time have I dismissed that we have had injury troubles. Not one single time. Congratulations on pulling up a graph to argue for a position I never disputed.

Similarly, I never said that those players were like, top three guys on our team. I said that we used them to soak up minutes, heavily. Did we?

Terrence Jones played over 1200 minutes in his season with us. You're telling me that's not a lot of minutes? It was 7th most on our entire team.
You know who played the 6th most minutes on our team that year? Tim Frazier! Who played over 1500 minutes for the team.
You know who played the 5th most minutes on our team that year? Dante Cunningham! Who played 1649 minutes for us.
In that same year, Solomon Hill started more games for the New Orleans Pelicans than literally any other member of the team, and racked up a total of 2374 minutes of play time, good for 2nd on the entire team after Davis.

You're telling me when we have years where we invest 2000+ minutes into Solomon Hill and 1500+ minutes into both Tim Frazier and Dante Cunningham that we aren't heavily investing minutes into those names? Really? Is that the hill you want to die on?

I cannot believe it is 2019 and I'm having to argue the idea that the New Orleans Pelicans have played crap players for far too many minutes, far too often for the last several years. What is this, bizarro world?

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I'm not going to sit here and go in ridiculous and absurd circles. Nothing you typed backs up your argument, are contextually flawed, and once again, completely leaves out the injury situation. Which makes no sense. If both Steph Curry AND Shaun Livingston miss huge chunks of minutes, then a player like Quinn Cook might end up with the 6th/7th most minutes. And that scenario doesn't even begin to explain the injury situation for the Pelicans around the timeof that graph or the year before it. Simple logic. Simple math.

Was awesome.

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Originally Posted by joe87

Was awesome.

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Indeed

Move on. AD is Boogie 2.0.

No way in hell we lost in this trade. We got three talented players with two potential stars IMO. Lonzo Ball has some serious talent from the point guard position to go along with elite size. He’s only 21 years old and was playing in the bright lights of Los Angeles. I think a change to a small market team with his idiot dad not getting as much exposure will do wonders for him. His defense & play making ability is right up there with the top point guards in the league IMO. Once he gets his offense for himself going, watch out! Brandon Ingram has star potential as well and the only thing really holding him back from possibly being a super star is his body type. He’s got elite height for the small forward position, but just can’t seem to put on the good weight needed to hold up for a 83 game season. If he ever fills out, Sky is the limit for this kid who is also only 21 years old. A change to a small market where he won’t have as much pressure on him to be the franchise savior will help tremendously. Josh Hart, the veteran at 24 lol, is just the perfect bench player. Great locker room guy with an extremely high basketball IQ. Good on defense with a good all around game. I don’t see too many teams getting a talented trio like that in trades too often.

Then you throw in the picks acquired and no way we have lost that trade.

Brandon Ingram
Lonzo Ball
Josh Hart
Jaxson Hayes (pick 8)
Nickeil Alexander-Walker (pick 17)
Didi (draft & stash, 3 & D wing at pick 35)
Derrick Favors: Getting that 35th pick allowed us to trade the 39th to Golden State for two future seconds which then turned into our new starting center


2020 Heavily top 10 protected Cavs pick (gonna be pulling for them Cavs & pulling for Darius Garland to be the rookie of the year runner up to Zion)
2021 Lakers 1st (top 8 protected for us and then unprotected in 2022. 2021 draft is stacked & 2022 draft will likely be the double draft so pick 20 would be like pick 10 in the previous draft)
2023 Swap 1sts if their pick is better
2024 Unprotected 1st that can be deferred to 2025

Dumped Solo Hill’s terrible 1 year contract that gave us the space needed to acquire JJ Redick, Derrick Favors, Nicolo Melli, & bring back Darius Miller

Absolutely no way we lost that trade even with AD being such a talented top 5 player when he’s HEALTHY

My second favorite team this next year will be the Cleveland Cavs, so they get a pick outside the top 10.

C: Thompson, Henson, Zizic
PF: Love, Nance
SF: Osman, Windler
SG: Clarkson, Porter, JR Smith
PG: Sexton, Garland, Dellavedova

It’s not like they don’t have a pretty talented roster. Hopefully JR ends up in a Lakers uniform. Adding Garland, Porter, & Windler to that team is pretty decent. I like all 3 of them as players. They should have a good point guard rotation. Hopefully Kevin Love stays on the team and has a healthy All Star season. They have some decent big men with Love, Thompson, Nance, Henson, & Zizic. I don’t know what they did in free agency if anything. They got Michigan Wolverines coach who is known for his offense, so hopefully they score a ton of points to win some games.

Bump AD. Time to win a chip at summer league. Lets GOOOOO!

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Nothing you typed backs up your argument, are contextually flawed, and once again, completely leaves out the injury situation.

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Why do I even bother when, for the third straight time, you bring up the injury point that I have literally not once disagreed with? The fact is, if you construct your roster properly, then a couple of injuries don't result in 4 of your top 10 minutes getters being borderline-out-of-the-league talent. Denver had the most injuries of any team this past year, and somehow they managed not to field a team that was packed with G-Leaguers and bottom of the barrel talent. Why? Because they had constructed a good team with some depth to it. We didn't have that.