Is it time to Consider a new Robin for Batman? (AD)

[Silverfoxx]

With the recent news of Jrue Holiday injury, my concern for this team long term success is becoming more dark and worrying. Before you guys tell me that Holiday is fine and this team will be ok, I want to imply that my vision is for the following three years of 2015,16,17. My concern with Holiday is that the stress fracture issue he has will become chronicle, and AD hype will grow overtime based on his freakish growth in his game. By the time AD is 24, im afraid he will be too good for this team and the media and his peers will get in his head about leaving or requesting a trade ala Kevin Love fiasco. With our current core, it forces a jekyll hyde player like Tyreke Evans to play second fiddle to AD. And with AD out right now, we are seeing how Evans carries the load, which is not good team basketball. My worst fear is that with our history of injuries, playoffs for the next couple years will always be in limbo, because whenever AD is out, or off, we dont have a consistant second guy to carry this team or to build a 1 2 punch with AD. I feel right now before the AD hype train hits high (and its coming really soon), that we must pair AD with a TRUE second option who is consistant and young enough to grow with AD.


Should we try to end the Davis/ Holiday saga by trading him away or other pieces to look for a more durable starting PG?

Does "Robin" have to be a PG or should we find our second best player at an another postion?

Should we keep the core intact knowing that our Robin is on our current team?




I feel this offseason will be the most important one in New Orleans Basketball History. It will have a huge effect on our future.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Any guys in mind? How often do top 20 guys change teams? And how often do they go to a market like New Orleans?

Sure, I would love to go get Westbrook instead, but how is that possible? I would never say no to moving anybody unequivocally, but throw out some realistic options. I believe that once you start trying to do that, you will see how unlikely it is that we can really upgrade any time soon.

[Silverfoxx]

Any guys in mind? How often do top 20 guys change teams? And how often do they go to a market like New Orleans?

Sure, I would love to go get Westbrook instead, but how is that possible? I would never say no to moving anybody unequivocally, but throw out some realistic options. I believe that once you start trying to do that, you will see how unlikely it is that we can really upgrade any time soon.

Honestly I spent all last night trying to come up with an awesome scenario the trades, draft, young free agents. But its really tricky with contracts, who we can trade for, etc. It just seem like PG position if not Jrue, will not be our Robin based on the current NBA PGs.


Ideally, i was thinking of young vets like Brandin Knight, Ricky Rubio, Victor Oladipo, maybe Shane Larkin? Issah Thomas,and maybe some kid in the draft (D'Angelo Russell, Tyus Jones, Emmanuel Mudway)

It would be pretty tough, but we have to consider this just for our future sake....

[MichaelMcNamara]

Yeah, you always have to consider it and I am sure Dell is doing that. But it is not easily done. The easiest route is to get Jrue through this injury back to 100% because you already have him on a good deal and on your roster.

[Caffeinedisastr]

I would love to have Oladipo, but to pair with Jrue on the perimeter.

I see where you're going with this, but if this turns into a chronic thing other teams won't give us anything for Jrue.
Essentially he will turn into an Eric Gordon type. (happy with what we get from him, but just wanting to unload his contract)

I am praying that this is not something chronic and that he'll jump back after one minor setback. (like Westbrook)
Until then, I'll just take it one day at a time.

And Robin Lopez is not coming back.

[tjharris]

I think AD's robin needs to be a finisher at the rim. If you look at AD's game he doesn't post-up a lot and doesn't have a go to post-up move. He likes to face up and get a shot off the dribble, which with his size and skill set is hard to beat. More and more he'll draw double teams from the post player. Setting up easy lanes to score in when AD kicks.

[speedyG]

Any guys in mind? How often do top 20 guys change teams? And how often do they go to a market like New Orleans?

Sure, I would love to go get Westbrook instead, but how is that possible? I would never say no to moving anybody unequivocally, but throw out some realistic options. I believe that once you start trying to do that, you will see how unlikely it is that we can really upgrade any time soon.

Goran Dragic

[HornetGuru]

Oh my, could you imagine the defense with a jrue, oladipo back court

[Caffeinedisastr]

Many folks say we need a 3 & D.

I say we've got some 3 pt shooters.

We need a slashing wing that can finish at the rim.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Goran Dragic

You mean the guy who said he will only sign with NY, LAL, or Miami?

As I said, not very easy to get these guys

[speedyG]

You mean the guy who said he will only sign with NY, LAL, or Miami?

As I said, not very easy to get these guys

We could trade them Ryno, have AD try and convince Dragic to stay and contend with him. Not perfect but it is possible

[MichaelMcNamara]

We could trade them Ryno, have AD try and convince Dragic to stay and contend with him. Not perfect but it is possible

And then if, when he leaves, the board eats Demps alive. Darned if you do, darned if you don't.

[speedyG]

Ty Lawsons available

[Mythrol]

We attached two 1st round picks for Jrue. I can't imagine the team trying to move on from him due to injuries. In fact it would be silly to do so.

[UNO Gracias]

Ty Lawsons available

That would be pretty fun stuff.

[Silverfoxx]

We attached two 1st round picks for Jrue. I can't imagine the team trying to move on from him due to injuries. In fact it would be silly to do so.

But its starting to become a major concern. Not all plans stick into play, you have to make adjustments when its needed.


And Dragic had one fluke season and everyone thinks he is a suiter here.. he is not. And he is getting up there in age so by the time AD become King of Basketball, his "Robin" will be on the decline, which would ensure AD departure from this team.




Maybe our Robin doesnt have to be an PG like i stated. Maybe it can be a deadyeye or finisher at the rim. Or heck maybe even a center and we can form a dynamic twin tower set. Guys like Deng from Minnesota, Faried (at C position), Nerlens Noel, etc. can grow with AD and we can trade for a low price facilitator.

[Mythrol]

But its starting to become a major concern. Not all plans stick into play, you have to make adjustments when its needed.


And Dragic had one fluke season and everyone thinks he is a suiter here.. he is not. And he is getting up there in age so by the time AD become King of Basketball, his "Robin" will be on the decline, which would ensure AD departure from this team.




Maybe our Robin doesnt have to be an PG like i stated. Maybe it can be a deadyeye or finisher at the rim. Or heck maybe even a center and we can form a dynamic twin tower set. Guys like Deng from Minnesota, Faried (at C position), Nerlens Noel, etc. can grow with AD and we can trade for a low price facilitator.

I simply don't think think throwing more 1st round picks around to try and get a #2 is the right way to do it when we already have a #2 on the team who is just injured.

Like I said in another thread, Jrue is far from the only Pg who has been injured the last couple years. Guys like Westbrook and Rose have both suffered nearly as much or more than Jrue. If this team views a healthy Jrue as our #2 then I can't imagine trading him when he is injured.

[Silverfoxx]

I would love to have Oladipo, but to pair with Jrue on the perimeter.

I see where you're going with this, but if this turns into a chronic thing other teams won't give us anything for Jrue.
Essentially he will turn into an Eric Gordon type. (happy with what we get from him, but just wanting to unload his contract)

I am praying that this is not something chronic and that he'll jump back after one minor setback. (like Westbrook)
Until then, I'll just take it one day at a time.

And Robin Lopez is not coming back.

Thats why you trade them now while they are hotcakes (Jrue, Evans, Ryno) before their value diminish. Either way, keeping them or trading them is a high risk high reward, but im open to blowing this core up in the offseason after Pinky and the Brain (Monty and Dell) exit. We have to reassure our future and either accept to be mediocre or potential dynasty. Keeping what he have now at best is mediocre 5th seed. Based on injuries, management, Iqs, etc. If we switch up management everything else changes, I dont think fans are realizing this. We cant accept a Evans for Dragic type deal becuase that only sure up us for two years IMO. Its a tricky time....

[Silverfoxx]

I simply don't think think throwing more 1st round picks around to try and get a #2 is the right way to do it when we already have a #2 on the team who is just injured.

Like I said in another thread, Jrue is far from the only Pg who has been injured the last couple years. Guys like Westbrook and Rose have both suffered nearly as much or more than Jrue. If this team views a healthy Jrue as our #2 then I can't imagine trading him when he is injured.

I agree, but we have to see what our potential new management will do with our current core. Im just praying its not a "WIN NOW" old fart who screws us in the end (Hornets days)

[MichaelMcNamara]

But its starting to become a major concern. Not all plans stick into play, you have to make adjustments when its needed.


And Dragic had one fluke season and everyone thinks he is a suiter here.. he is not. And he is getting up there in age so by the time AD become King of Basketball, his "Robin" will be on the decline, which would ensure AD departure from this team.




Maybe our Robin doesnt have to be an PG like i stated. Maybe it can be a deadyeye or finisher at the rim. Or heck maybe even a center and we can form a dynamic twin tower set. Guys like Deng from Minnesota, Faried (at C position), Nerlens Noel, etc. can grow with AD and we can trade for a low price facilitator.

None of these guys you are describing are 'Robins'

Robins in the past have been Dwayne Wade, Scottie Pippen, Tony Parker, Kobe, etc.

Multiple time All-Stars. This team is being extremely cautious with Jrue, and the numbers say that it is more likely that this is never a problem agains after this season than this is something that debilitates him forever. If there was a fool proof way to get a great player next to AD, of course you do it. But there is not one. Easiest route is to get Jrue right IMO.

[da ThRONe]

Any guys in mind? How often do top 20 guys change teams? And how often do they go to a market like New Orleans?

Sure, I would love to go get Westbrook instead, but how is that possible? I would never say no to moving anybody unequivocally, but throw out some realistic options. I believe that once you start trying to do that, you will see how unlikely it is that we can really upgrade any time soon.

This is exactly why I stress the importance of building via the draft. I'm not naïve enough to think it's foolproof however given the nature of our market size and lack of franchise success. Drafting your talent or trading for rookie contracts logically is the far superior way to build a team. It provides the long term flexibility teams lack when they sign young vets like we choose to do. Now we are in the danger zone of being too good to draft(in our case at all) a difference maker yet not good enough to attract a difference maker in free agency.

The only way the young vet route can work is if there's great chemistry. So even though you already pointed out that we have been robbed of any chance of said chemistry due to constant injuries. Looking at this team on paper it's not one that is constructed in a way that is balanced(at least on paper IMO of course). Most of the money are going to 3 guys whom all need the ball in their respective hands to maximize their value to the team. Davis and Anderson of the core 6 play the same position. This has is why I've been critical of the moves Demps has made in his tenure as GM.

To answer the question I'd say yes we need to find another Robin if we are assuming Davis is to be Batman and Holiday is Robin. Not only these injuries, but if we are building around just around two guys they need to be superstar level guys. While people would say Davis fits the mode I don't think anybody thinks Holiday is a superstar. Just that alone says the whole Batman/Robin dynamic between Davis/Holiday won't ever yield anything other than maybe some playoffs appearances at best IMO(again of course).

[Caffeinedisastr]

None of these guys you are describing are 'Robins'

Robins in the past have been Dwayne Wade, Scottie Pippen, Tony Parker, Kobe, etc.

Indeed. These guys are more like "Alfreds".

[MichaelMcNamara]

Indeed. These guys are more like "Alfreds".

Or whoever/ whatever Alicia Silverstone was supposed to be

[Silverfoxx]

This is exactly why I stress the importance of building via the draft. I'm not naïve enough to think it's foolproof however given the nature of our market size and lack of franchise success. Drafting your talent or trading for rookie contracts logically is the far superior way to build a team. It provides the long term flexibility teams lack when they sign young vets like we choose to do. Now we are in the danger zone of being too good to draft(in our case at all) a difference maker yet not good enough to attract a difference maker in free agency.

The only way the young vet route can work is if there's great chemistry. So even though you already pointed out that we have been robbed of any chance of said chemistry due to constant injuries. Looking at this team on paper it's not one that is constructed in a way that is balanced(at least on paper IMO of course). Most of the money are going to 3 guys whom all need the ball in their respective hands to maximize their value to the team. Davis and Anderson of the core 6 play the same position. This has is why I've been critical of the moves Demps has made in his tenure as GM.

To answer the question I'd say yes we need to find another Robin if we are assuming Davis is to be Batman and Holiday is Robin. Not only these injuries, but if we are building around just around two guys they need to be superstar level guys. While people would say Davis fits the mode I don't think anybody thinks Holiday is a superstar. Just that alone says the whole Batman/Robin dynamic between Davis/Holiday won't ever yield anything other than maybe some playoffs appearances at best IMO(again of course).

Totally agree. I guess it was a sense of optimism, but like MM tweeted, that can be the death of a person. Im open to restructing our "core" pieces. One thing that we can value is that we have "treats" that we can trade away for more value that what we need. Players like Ryno and Evans are expendable..

[Silverfoxx]

None of these guys you are describing are 'Robins'

Robins in the past have been Dwayne Wade, Scottie Pippen, Tony Parker, Kobe, etc.

Multiple time All-Stars. This team is being extremely cautious with Jrue, and the numbers say that it is more likely that this is never a problem agains after this season than this is something that debilitates him forever. If there was a fool proof way to get a great player next to AD, of course you do it. But there is not one. Easiest route is to get Jrue right IMO.

LOL fair enough. Im just trying to be realstic as possible with players we can potentially grab that can GROW into a Robin.