James Harden traded to Houston, per Woj

[UptownFuz504]

We will see. I think your predictions versus first teamers will be wrong and he will rise to the opportunity. We get to see if he's a big time player, which I think he will prove he is.

I think Slim's point was proven in the finals. The Heat didn't use their bench so Harden was going against the 1st squad and he was very pedestrian.

[Pelicans78]

I think Slim's point was proven in the finals. The Heat didn't use their bench so Harden was going against the 1st squad and he was very pedestrian.

He was only pedestrian against Lebron James who would make anyone look pedestrian.

[UptownFuz504]

He was only pedestrian against Lebron James who would make anyone look pedestrian.

Durant and Westbrook seemed to fine if I recall.

[Pelicans78]

Durant and Westbrook seemed to fine if I recall.

They didn't go up against Lebron. Harden exclusively did offensively and defensively.

[BallSoHard]

I think Slim's point was proven in the finals. The Heat didn't use their bench so Harden was going against the 1st squad and he was very pedestrian.

So one series versus the best team and best player in the NBA defines this guy for his whole career ? Laughable.

[UptownFuz504]

So one series versus the best team and best player in the NBA defines this guy for his whole career ? Laughable.

It doesn't define his career but what it does show is that he's less effective against 1st string competition. He's made a living excelling against the second string. I'm not arguing how good he is but I was pointing out that what NolaSlim was saying has facts to back it up. Harden had his chance to shine against 1st string and he didn't. Facts are facts no matter how you spin it.

[Pelicans78]

It doesn't define his career but what it does show is that he's less effective against 1st string competition. He's made a living excelling against the second string. I'm not arguing how good he is but I was pointing out that what NolaSlim was saying has facts to back it up. Harden had his chance to shine against 1st string and he didn't. Facts are facts no matter how you spin it.

He was great against the Mavs, Lakers and Spurs and against their first string. He ran into Lebron and obviously he struggled, but doesn't mean he will struggle against 1st string competition. That's pretty silly.

[FlyGirl]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--in...-28301609.html

After turning down a $52 million extension several days ago, Harden's agent, Rob Pelinka, flew from Los Angeles to Oklahoma City on Friday for a final sit-down with Presti. He wanted a max contract of four years, $60 million for his client, and had come to Oklahoma City to push management as far as it would go on an offer.

Before sitting down a final time with Pelinka, Presti became more serious in his discussions with Morey. Houston wanted Harden badly, believed he would evolve into a transcendent franchise star for a championship-caliber team and planned to award him a five-year maximum contract worth nearly $80 million. So, Presti laid out what he wanted for Harden and the original price was steep: Kevin Martin, Chandler Parsons, Jeremy Lamb and three first-round picks, including Houston's own in 2013.

Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN
LeBron on Harden con't: "I was surprised with the season about to start. He’s a big-time player, Houston got a good one."

58m Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN
LeBron on Harden: "Everybody makes sacrifices, either financially or game or whatever. James made sacrifices. He came off the bench."

Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN
Wade on Harden: "He wanted his worth & wanted to be featured. He’s a pretty good player. He can live up to billing but the grind is tough."

55m Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN
Summarizing Wade, he said Harden got what he wanted with money & being featured guy but that he'll have to live up to bigger expectations

If Houston gives him 5/$80 people will indeed expect a lot out of him.

[BallSoHard]

Facts can't be defined in a 5 game sample size. That's not spin, sorry you don't feel that way. I think he's played enough minutes against starters.

[PelsFan2313]

He was great against the Mavs, Lakers and Spurs and against their first string. He ran into Lebron and obviously he struggled, but doesn't mean he will struggle against 1st string competition. That's pretty silly.

I am inclined to agree with this.

While I don't think he's necessarily proven that he can carry a team like Gordon has, he sure as hell shouldn't be counted out because of one bad series. I think constantly referring back to that one series to make a point about his game as a whole is irrational. Especially considering, as Hornets78 pointed out, that LeBron James (one of the better perimeter defenders in the league) was guarding him the majority of the time.

[UptownFuz504]

He was great against the Mavs, Lakers and Spurs and against their first string. He ran into Lebron and obviously he struggled, but doesn't mean he will struggle against 1st string competition. That's pretty silly.

We'll agree to disagree. The Thunder obviously felt a certain way about what he brought to the table and how much it was worth so who am I to argue semantics about his value and career achievements. Time will tell and can revisit ths discussion.

[Pelicans78]

Based on his production with OKC, he's worth the max for them, but they couldn't afford it. He was incredibly productive and efficient for them, even more than Westbrook.

[nolaslim213]

We will see. I think your predictions versus first teamers will be wrong and he will rise to the opportunity. We get to see if he's a big time player, which I think he will prove he is.

It will be interesting for sure, and we'll monitor it as the season goes on, but I still think he won't be nearly the play in Houston that he was in OKC.

I think A. is a legit concern. However for B. and C. I disagree.

b) He still has guys like Lin, Parsons, Delfino, Patterson and I really like T.Jones to take pressure off of himself. Harden is one of the better playmaker at the 2 spot and won't force anything.

c) I think the whole last shot thing is overrated. I want a guy who will make the right play not just settle for a tough shot because he's the best player.

Lin and company isn't anywhere near Westbrook and Durant. And as far as the last shot thing goes, I agree that I don't want a guy who is going to force up a bad shot at the end, but that isn't what I'm talking about. Gordon is better at creating his own shot, which really helps him at the end of the game - way better than Harden in that regard. He can create a better look for himself than Harden which = a better shot. Also, whether you want to admit it or not, there is such a thing as a "clutch gene." Some guys handle pressure better than others. Gordon has it, and Harden doesn't seem to have it, but I'd like to see more of him trying to close by himself before I completely write him off in that regard.

[UptownFuz504]

Based on his production with OKC, he's worth the max for them, but they couldn't afford it. He was incredibly productive and efficient for them, even more than Westbrook.

If Westbrook was unwilling to be a company man, do you honestly think the Thunder would have traded him (a la Harden) or would they have kept the negotiations open? Just curious

[Pelicans78]

If Westbrook was unwilling to be a company man, do you honestly think the Thunder would have traded him (a la Harden) or would they have kept the negotiations open? Just curious

Well no one knows. They offered him the max so its a moot point. Westbrook would have refused anything less. Basically, they knew Harden wouldn't settle for less so they made a decision to move him even though it will hurt them this season.

[BallSoHard]

I am inclined to agree with this.

While I don't think he's necessarily proven that he can carry a team like Gordon has, he sure as hell shouldn't be counted out because of one bad series. I think constantly referring back to that one series to make a point about his game as a whole is irrational. Especially considering, as Hornets78 pointed out, that LeBron James (one of the better perimeter defenders in the league) was guarding him the majority of the time.

What team has Gordon carried and where'd he carry them to? Not saying he's not going to be great because I really want him to be, but in my
Mind he is just as unproven.

[da ThRONe]

Lin and company isn't anywhere near Westbrook and Durant. And as far as the last shot thing goes, I agree that I don't want a guy who is going to force up a bad shot at the end, but that isn't what I'm talking about. Gordon is better at creating his own shot, which really helps him at the end of the game - way better than Harden in that regard. He can create a better look for himself than Harden which = a better shot. Also, whether you want to admit it or not, there is such a thing as a "clutch gene." Some guys handle pressure better than others. Gordon has it, and Harden doesn't seem to have it, but I'd like to see more of him trying to close by himself before I completely write him off in that regard.

Not having Westbrook and Durant is a double edge sword. However Harden won't be out there alone without any help.

I agree Gordon is better at creating for himself, but I would counter that with saying Harden is better at creating for others.

As far as the "clutch gene" thing it's non-sense. There's no stat that supports it and guys who would be given credit for being clutch often times are worse than guys who wouldn't be considered clutch.

[Eman5805]

I like Harden, I think he'll confirm that he's an elite player. But like Gordon's health, until he does it it's only speculation and prognostication.

Now where's my paycheck, ESPN?

[nolaslim213]

Not having Westbrook and Durant is a double edge sword. However Harden won't be out there alone without any help.

I agree Gordon is better at creating for himself, but I would counter that with saying Harden is better at creating for others.

As far as the "clutch gene" thing it's non-sense. There's no stat that supports it and guys who would be given credit for being clutch often times are worse than guys who wouldn't be considered clutch.

Not everything is quantifiable. There aren't statistic for things like preparation, team chemistry, and good coaching, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist. We disagree on the matter, so I'll drop it.

[nolaslim213]

I like Harden, I think he'll confirm that he's an elite player. But like Gordon's health, until he does it it's only speculation and prognostication.

Now where's my paycheck, ESPN?

You forgot to mention Tim Tebow! No paycheck!

[BallSoHard]

You forgot to mention Tim Tebow! No paycheck!

Aint that the truth.

[ramsters60]

Thunder won this trade imo. Nice move for them.

it will be years before the details of this trade will actually be consummated....I feel OC gave up more in the short term, but will eventually garner the edge if they play their cards right....not to even mention that they probably had to do something....

[bradael]

OKC got about as much as they could out of this trade. Worst case for them is they have Kevin Martin, who gives them a very good scorer off the bench for one season, which is what they had in Harden. They actually have a greater chance of bringing back Martin next year than they did of bringing back Harden, although OKC may decide to keep as low of a payroll as possible for their market.

The two draft picks are no guarantee. Mavs' pick will be a mid to late first rounder. Raptors' pick will most likely be a late lottery pick. Going by the recent history of NBA drafts, chances are neither will do anything in this league. There's no guarantee that Lamb will be anything other than an end of the bench player either.

Either way, I don't think OKC is any worse this year than they would have been with Harden. Harden could be a star in Houston, but his playing time & ball handling opportunities are limited behind Westbrook & Durant. But OKC is far better off for the future than they would have been had they kept Harden.

Houston gave up too much, but they're probably better off now than they were before the trade too. I still think their GM is an idiot though.

[Hornetnojersey]

The fans seem happy about getting him. The Rockets will be fun to watch, I see them being like the Suns a few years ago just without a good point guard. I bet they wish they would have kept Dragic(Spell check)

[rubicon]

Its a great trade for Houston. Harden is a dynamic scorer and great at the pick and roll. He did benefit playing with Westbrook and Durant, but all the guy can do is score. KMart wasn't going to stay so they needed to ship him. Now Morey has gotten his piece. A guy that might not be a number 1 option but IMO he is a top 25 player and only 23.

One of OKCs strength was chemistry, but now its been dealt with a blow. Still the second lineup with Maynor and Martin, might be good enough to combat the Harden loss. Martin can spot up like no other in the NBA, but its his defense thats the concern. lamb is a good prospect with tons of upside and the lottery draft picks will get them prob size and defense. Whats more concerning about this deal, is that Harden only wanted 1 Mill more per season. 1 M more!!! I mean are the Thunder going to be come Shinn stingy. This was a core that could have rivaled with the greats. These guys are all younger than 25. If Maynor does well and the Thunder don't resign him, then we have a problem. This CBA really does not work.