Shinn puts foot in mouth again (Times Picayune Story)

[West Coast Hornet]

Back to the subject at hand, Shinn was just giving a speech to what he thought was only OKC businessmen. The very people he will depend on for sponsorship next season. I would take it as no more than what he, Shinn, and the NBA have been doing all along....saying what each city wants to hear.

I guarantee that if he had nothing but NOLA businessmen in the room that same thing would have been said, but in NO's favor.

I tend to agree with this.

Go look at the contract Shinn has with OKC. It is NOT guaranteed next year. It is guaranteed this year. Next year, he will depend on OKC Corporations keeping him afloat. The Hornets are afraid they will lose money. The only way they don't lose money is to keep those in OKC believing the Hornets will remain there.

What Shinn and the Hornets under-estimate is the resolve of New Orleanians in looking out for the hometown and bringing the city back.

This is what happens when you talk out of two sides of your mouth. It's ashame it went this way. Shinn should have just negotiated a guaranteed 2nd year from OKC if the Hornets exercised the option to return. Then he should have sold this purely as OKC's audition for big-league sports. He never should have changed the name of the team, thus infuriating the New Orleans base. Well, he did what he did and now he has to lie in the sh*t that has been created.

[say-what]

Shinn was just giving a speech to what he thought was only OKC businessmen. The very people he will depend on for sponsorship next season. I would take it as no more than what he, Shinn, and the NBA have been doing all along....saying what each city wants to hear.

That still doesn't make his comments right. Not when you're only supposed to be temporarily staying in OKC and NOLA is still your permanent home - unless of course, you have ulterior motives.

There is a right way and a wrong way of doing things. So one way or another, he's lying to one group.....

I guarantee that if he had nothing but NOLA businessmen in the room that same thing would have been said, but in NO's favor.

But then again, NOLA is the team's permanent home, so I would expect him to say such things here - or has that changed in Shinn's mind.

[carl]

I understand that it's similar to Tags/Benson situation, but aren't you afraid that Shinn will fold & sell? HH, you yourself wrote that NO's out of the NBA business if Shinn sells. I don't feel very comfortable w/ Shinn's ownership as the only chance NO keeps the team. However, you seem very secure that we'll have them long-term (barring disaster, etc) despite all of that & that's why I'm lost.

[West Coast Hornet]

I understand that it's similar to Tags/Benson situation, but aren't you afraid that Shinn will fold & sell? HH, you yourself wrote that NO's out of the NBA business if Shinn sells. I don't feel very comfortable w/ Shinn's ownership as the only chance NO keeps the team. However, you seem very secure that we'll have them long-term (barring disaster, etc) despite all of that & that's why I'm lost.

Stern won't reward Shinn with the OKC market. That's been my feeling since the begining. The relo from CLT to NOLA was nasty at the league office. Stern will make Shinn return to NOLA, even if it is not as glitzy as the way Tags did it.

[NYKF Hornet]

Because Shinn's main money maker is his NBA team . . . much like our other genius sports owner.

[carl]

So Stern's 'sort of' on our side, w/ strings attached? Do you figure that he knows Shinn won't sell, therefore Stern gets 'kind of' gets what he wants either way (Shinn sells, or team's back in NO - but NOT Shinn in OKC)?

[Avatar]

So Stern's 'sort of' on our side, w/ strings attached? Do you figure that he knows Shinn won't sell, therefore Stern gets 'kind of' gets what he wants either way (Shinn sells, or team's back in NO - but NOT Shinn in OKC)?

While not as knowledgeable about the situation as others, I can speculate and extrapolate.

If you believe that: 1) The NBA feels they landed on a pot o' gold in OKC and 2) Shinn's organization has managed to screw up every hometown they been in, then there's no way the NBA "rewards" Shinn with OKC. They'd be afraid he kills THAT golden goose as well.

[Harvey]

So Stern's 'sort of' on our side, w/ strings attached? Do you figure that he knows Shinn won't sell, therefore Stern gets 'kind of' gets what he wants either way (Shinn sells, or team's back in NO - but NOT Shinn in OKC)?

Bingo. Plus he gets to use OKC when negotiating with all of the cities whose teams are suddenly not happy. There is a reason the Blazers, Sonics, etc. are coming out like they are. They are positioning themselves to use OKC as leverage. They know that Shinn has refused to sell and will return to New Orleans if thats what Stern demands he does. This leaves OKC "open" to those teams. They are going to jump on it for leverage sake if nothing else. If George wants to continue as majority owner, he has no choice but to come back and ride out the lease. Kind of makes sense why he's talking about OKC and beyond the lease right?

[patronius]

So the possibilities are:
1. Shinn, who doesn't want to be here, is forced back to a city he's just kicked in the groin; or
2. Shinn, under pressure, sells to someone who has Stern's approval (that Shinn doesn't have) to move to OKC or elsewhere.
I can think of a number of places that I'd like to shove the 3 pack of tickets I've bought.

[Defuz]

However, you seem very secure that we'll have them long-term (barring disaster, etc) despite all of that & that's why I'm lost.

When any of us are talking about having the team back here in '07, we're not talking about the long term, meaning 2010, 15, 20 and beyond, we're talking about being back here for the period of the team's lease of the arena. Beyond that, Lord only knows the way things are right now.

[Harvey]

So the possibilities are:
1. Shinn, who doesn't want to be here, is forced back to a city he's just kicked in the groin; or
2. Shinn, under pressure, sells to someone who has Stern's approval (that Shinn doesn't have) to move to OKC or elsewhere.
I can think of a number of places that I'd like to shove the 3 pack of tickets I've bought.

Pretty much so. BUT, if the go the 2nd route, they have to negotiate a lease settlement (which would be a lot more than the 10M they could buy out after 2012). Plus, now other teams are counting on having OKC as a bargaining chip against their cities. Now that Stern has taken the the stance against George being able to keep the team there, the other teams are lining up so they can gain the position of leverage they seek. It's not as clean as it would have been had George agreed to sell while they were pressuring him.

[rogerdorn1]

I'm heading home on the 405, and listening to John and Ken, and they were talking about a particular politician out here, and they play this song that reminded of Shinn...But I see your true colors
shining through

[NYKF Hornet]

405 wasn't bad today, not sure which direction you were going but I found today to be pretty easy going.

Not that it's important or anything but this story is getting around . . . today two Lakers fans I work with said they saw the story online and thought it was a pretty ****** way for Shinn to act.

[Buzzster]

Shinn's a cheapskate, enjoy these next 2 years worth games Oklahomans.

[Harvey]

Not that it's important or anything but this story is getting around . . . today two Lakers fans I work with said they saw the story online and thought it was a pretty ****** way for Shinn to act.

The calm before the storm.

[Trueblood]

My wife and I, season ticket holders from day one - hour one, love the games, and have just upgraded our tickets to the lower bowl. Boy, oh boy, we were jazzed about this season. Then Katrina.

And although somewhat slow to react, when he did, I believed what Shinn said. Why shouldn't I?

During the time that has passed, I've seen and heard many things. The despicable behavior of Benson has brought me to a place where I've sworn to never support his team again. Besides which, I prefer to go to basketball games anyway; easy call.

Comments from Byron about good crowds and a city that supports the team did not offend me. I understand that from his point of view, it's support for his team when they're on the floor, and that kind of atmosphere can carry a team. If I were him, I'd feel the same way. He's a coach. He's paid to get results, which I think he's doing a fine job of. And he appreciates, as anyone would, the benefits of good fan support.

But, over this time that has passed, I've connected the dots and find, regretably, that the picture that is emerging is an ugly one. I've said it before, and I'll say it again; the buyout of Woolridge, small crowds and a bad investment have crippled the finances of Shinn and the team. In OKC, the money's pouring in, with guarntees from the state, good corporate sponsors, and a bright future where he's the only game in town.

When Benson was forced back here, the Hornets return looked more doubtful instantly. Like it or not, this city has been crippled, and it will take years and years to return. That means that it'll be hard to support TWO professional sports franchises, and the owners know this.

I know Benson's waiting for the right moment, but I never thought that Shinn was too. Now I believe that he is, and that, the lying, has broken my heart.

This Beekeeper crap is so hollow, so fake, so phony. I know who we've seen implemented with it, but I also believe, without any verification what so ever, that Shinn was fully aware of it, yet pulled no strings, nor had any directly attatched either. Two words....plausible denyability.

Where does it go from here? We'll just have to wait and see. More will follow.

But I find myself dumbfounded that someone of his stature would not simply put his cards on the table and be honest with the people. For example, if I had been told:

"I want to return. I want to bring this team back permanently. But before I can, I have a responsibility to make sure I'm not jumping into a situation where the water's deep, I'm far away from shore, and I don't have a lifevest. I need you folks to support the team, and we need corporate sponsors to step back to the plate, naming rights sold for the arena etc etc. I'll do everything that I can, but I'll need your help. Together......." etc etc.

I've heard some of that, but when I also hear comments like the ASG in OKC, this Beekeeper crap, and see the firing (officially or otherwise) of good, proven team leaders like Bristow and McDougal, then I know that I'm being lied to. When I see that, as anyone else does, my faith falters and my desire to do what I can for the team, buy tickets, merchandise & concessions, falters.

Look, as far as I know, I'm still on the fan advisory board. I'm still willing to go to meetings and do what I can to support the team and offer my thoughts and feelings to help. All I ask for my hard earned money, my dedication to the team, and most importantly, my heart, is some honesty in return.

Break the mould of corporate money-grabbing and dedicate yourself to the city and the people here. Maybe you won't make as much money here initially as you might in OKC, but over time, I can promise you that the people of Southeast Louisiana will bring you home.

We will rebuild, we will conquer whatever challenges we face, and we NEED your team to be there with us. If you can't, just be honest and tell us. Don't play games. Let us ALL move on.

Scrap the Beekeepers, commit to the city - without double-speak/wiggleroom in what you say, and join in the fight. It's a simple strategy. We need your support to help us regain our life as we knew it. You need us to support your team. I'm willing to hold up my end of the bargain. You.....?

Rack him!!

Great post. Ultimately, I see most of us sticking with the team. It will be tougher but if the product on the floor is good, that's all that really counts.

[Defuz]

Thanks TB. Almost regadless of what Shinn says, unless he turns into a raving lunatic like Benson, I will support the team. I fully expect some damage control, and for it to be a hollow appeasment of some hurt fans, but I can live with that, knowing him now for who he is, I can move on. If he's got any sense, he'll come back here and keep his mouth shut unless it's a sincere apology, and let his players do the talking, figuratively and literally.

However, regardless of how well the team does, if he does turn into Benson II, and if, when the team returns, he starts making blatant moves to relocate, I will withdraw my support. And I will expect for the other fans of this fine city to do the same. Like in Charlotte, they'll be playing to a darn near empty house.

Benson started posturing and insulting the fans of the Sants years ago. But with his latest round of lunacy, I simply gave up on him and his mediocre team.

As I said, I can ignore some of Shinn's lies, and concentrate on watching the team, but if he goes bat-$h1t crazy, and does whatever he can to poison the market and leave town, you can have him.

After that i'll watch TV or read the papaers instead. But until then, this is my team. This is my passion, and most of all, this is my city.

GO NEW ORLEANS HORNETS

[Defuz]

Oh, I almost forgot.....

[Trueblood]

Thanks TB. Almost regadless of what Shinn says, unless he turns into a raving lunatic like Benson, I will support the team. I fully expect some damage control, and for it to be a hollow appeasment of some hurt fans, but I can live with that, knowing him now for who he is, I can move on. If he's got any sense, he'll come back here and keep his mouth shut unless it's a sincere apology, and let his players do the talking, figuratively and literally.

However, regardless of how well the team does, if he does turn into Benson II, and if, when the team returns, he starts making blatant moves to relocate, I will withdraw my support. And I will expect for the other fans of this fine city to do the same. Like in Charlotte, they'll be playing to a darn near empty house.

Benson started posturing and insulting the fans of the Sants years ago. But with his latest round of lunacy, I simply gave up on him and his mediocre team.

As I said, I can ignore some of Shinn's lies, and concentrate on watching the team, but if he goes bat-$h1t crazy, and does whatever he can to poison the market and leave town, you can have him.

After that i'll watch TV or read the papaers instead. But until then, this is my team. This is my passion, and most of all, this is my city.

GO NEW ORLEANS HORNETS

Exactly. If he falls apart, then I wouldn't expect nor would I want the city of New Orleans to support him.

If he keeps his mouth shut and the team performs well, I could see the city slowly but surely coming back starting with the 3 games in March.

[West Coast Hornet]

Shinn will probably say something like he did what he did to stay in business. But he can't say that now because he would offend the Okies. Look, he just played this wrong from the begining, and because of that, he continues to be beset with PR problems. That's what's happening.

[Harvey]

I can ignore some of Shinn's lies...

George Shinn doesn't need to lie. Read his book "Good Morning Lord".

Hey George, it's time for another trip down Interstate 85. You need it! It's time to pick up the phone. Face your problems and write the check for a dollar if thats all you've got. Be a man and face the music. Thats what you brag about doing in your book.

George, "you can if you believe you can", thats how you signed my book. I guess thats just the first page of 130 pages of BS.

I guess you've given up! Try reading page 129 of your own friggin' book. You wrote it.

"It would be unrealistic to suggest that the successful person is always living at the top of the mountain. We all have our valleys. We all experience tragedies. We all have setbacks. We all make mistakes in judgements of people and situations-the Lord knows I've made mine. But these valleys can be learning experiences, learning more about others, about ourselves and about the Lord. Without him there can be no mountains."

In other words, David Stern isn't your savior coullion. Let me guess, the next book will be named "Dear David". It all started with an awakening as you were driving down I-40 and the front end started to shake...

[SerraAngelOKC]

You mean like


Earthquakes for Los Angeles, San Francisco, Sacramento, Anaheim, Oakland, San Jose and San Diego (Lakers, Clippers, Dodgers, Angels, Galaxy, Kings (hockey), Mighty Ducks, Kings (basketball), Padres, Chargers, Raiders, Warriors, 49ers, Giants (baseball), Chivas, Sharks and Athletics)?

Actually Avatar, earthquakes do not occur in Sacramento. Sac is to far inland to feel an earthquake. The worst that Sac gets is flooding in certain areas around the Yolo Causeway and maybe a tornado in the outskirts of the metro.

i know this, I'm a native Californian! LOL

[West Coast Hornet]

Actually Avatar, earthquakes do not occur in Sacramento. Sac is to far inland to feel an earthquake. The worst that Sac gets is flooding in certain areas around the Yolo Causeway and maybe a tornado in the outskirts of the metro.

i know this, I'm a native Californian! LOL

I am not a native Californian, but living out here I can tell you two things.

A) Sacramento is not completely immune from quake or quake effects. It's not like the Valley has ZERO fault lines. A quake can essentially strike anywhere on the west coast.

B) The SF Chronicle did a major story in November outlining how a major quake in the Bay Area could lead to a rupture of the levees in the Delta, and do you know what their conclusion was? Up to $40B in damage with more than 95000 homes in the Sacramento and San Joaquin Valleys standing in 5 feet of water.

[Harvey]

B) The SF Chronicle did a major story in November outlining how a major quake in the Bay Area could lead to a rupture of the levees in the Delta, and do you know what their conclusion was? Up to $40B in damage with more than 95000 homes in the Sacramento and San Joaquin Valleys standing in 5 feet of water.

Wow, thats great news. If things go OKC's way, they can get the Kings. Thanks for giving them something to hope for.

[West Coast Hornet]

Wow, thats great news. If things go OKC's way, they can get the Kings. Thanks for giving them something to hope for.

Happy to be of service!