Lakers vs Pelicans: Play-In Game 4/16/2024 GAMEDAY THREAD

[Nichols]

Is it proven that Ingram doesn't work?? No, it isn't. This team, as constructed is what hasn't worked. If you don't pay Ingram, you're going to pay someone else in the same tier as him. How many of these types move the needle? And are they available for NO? What other players do you replace him with that want to play in NO, that will move the needle, and keep Zion content?

If I'm the owner it's simple.. Keep Ingram and Zion, get rid of CJ. That is the only way this team will even sniff at a championship. Otherwise, no one is coming. Lastly, this is a team sport. You wouldn't say AD didn't work, because he clearly worked in LA. It's all about the roster, and coaching staff.

[msusousaphone]

Trading BI talk is silly.

No team trades a player of his level for lesser players without blowing up the team.

Emotional silliness. No point arguing with it.

[Pelicanidae]

Trading BI talk is silly.

No team trades a player of his level for lesser players without blowing up the team.

Emotional silliness. No point arguing with it.

You're right. This team, as currently constructed, is fine and we do not need cap flexibility. That's why we won, and haven't just lost a game in the play-in tournament rather than making the actual playoffs for the 3rd straight year.

[Nichols]

Trading BI talk is silly.

No team trades a player of his level for lesser players without blowing up the team.

Emotional silliness. No point arguing with it.

Only two conditions under which you trade those kind of players. They're bad for the locker room, or they demand a trade. If you're a big market team, maybe you can afford to dispose of all-star caliber players. Since you know more will come. NO isn't that kind of franchise. Bron said himself he had trouble gettin guys to come to the Cavs. Zion will not stick around if Ingram is gone.

There's only one way moving Ingram works. After moving him, they somehow get lucky in the draft and get another generational piece, on a rookie contract. That's not happening.

[Darkhorse985]

This team will never win with their top 2 players being injury prone. BI is Kris Middleton. Paying Middleton has hamstrung the Bucks. Giannis is what Zion could be if he got in shape and wasn’t knock-kneed . CJ should be the 3rd best player on a good team which he is.

BI for Murray and Clint Capela is good for both clubs and makes the Pels a better team that could weather short periods without Zion. BI cannot carry this team for long periods or in the playoffs. If you can’t see that, you haven’t watched this team and just looked at stat lines.

Murphy, Daniels, and Hawkins could more than replace the volume midrange shooting that BI gives.


Just because BI hasn’t demanded a trade, doesn’t mean he is a max player that should be paid as such. Paying BI will kill this team. That is why there were $15 tickets available to a playoff game tonight. You can’t fool everyone.

[Nichols]

This team will never win with their top 2 players being injury prone. BI is Kris Middleton. Paying Middleton has hamstrung the Bucks. Giannis is what Zion could be if he got in shape and wasn’t knock-kneed . CJ should be the 3rd best player on a good team which he is.

BI for Murray and Clint Capela is good for both clubs and makes the Pels a better team that could weather short periods without Zion. BI cannot carry this team for long periods or in the playoffs. If you can’t see that, you haven’t watched this team and just looked at stat lines.

I'm trying to understand your post. You said, Ingram can't carry this team for long stretches, and suggest trading for two players that you said could carry the team for short stretches. I don't see the logic in that statement. It's also false. Ingram has carried this team for long stretches. Lastly, he's not meant to carry this team in the playoffs. That's Zion's job. The only thing I agree with you on is health. Zion, and Ingram are both injury prone.

[Darkhorse985]

I'm trying to understand your post. You said, Ingram can't carry this team for long stretches, and suggest trading for two players that you said could carry the team for short stretches. I don't see the logic in that statement. It's also false. Ingram has carried this team for long stretches. Lastly, he's not meant to carry this team in the playoffs. That's Zion's job. The only thing I agree with you on is health. Zion, and Ingram are both injury prone.

The team would be better with Murray and Capela than BI, an actual PG and athletic center over a volume midrange shooting strawman. There isn’t infinite money. Murphy and Hawkins replace BI for far cheaper.

[Nichols]

I like Murray, he'd be a great addition. He's not a suitable replacement for Ingram, even with Capela. Think about what that squad gets you in the playoffs, and if it's a championship team. It's not. We've already seen this team as constructed push the champs. It only needs to be adjusted, but if you tinker and remove a key piece you'll be subtracting, and adding nothing in return.

I suppose I have to keep in mind that some NO fans may have a different perspective than I do. I've always been a Lakers fan. I'm accustomed to that team playing for deep playoff runs and championships. They don't typically make moves to become marginally better. They don't make moves to simply be competitive. Championship franchises don't move stars for smaller cost effective pieces that don't move the needle.

[Mount_Zion]

A laker fan who like Ingram. ..no surprise

Ingram to me is a low impact player...I don't see him as the second best player on a title team so why not see what his trade value is and with that impending contract he will need to be worth that contract for this team to reach that level

[Darkhorse985]

A laker fan who like Ingram. ..no surprise

Ingram to me is a low impact player...I don't see him as the second best player on a title team so why not see what his trade value is and with that impending contract he will need to be worth that contract for this team to reach that level

Ingram is the 3rd best player on a championship contender. See Kris Middleton. We already have one of those in CJ.

[Pelicanidae]

The team would be better with Murray and Capela than BI, an actual PG and athletic center over a volume midrange shooting strawman. There isn’t infinite money. Murphy and Hawkins replace BI for far cheaper.

I've said a million times and I still believe it, BI has massively *massively* improved since coming here from the Lakers and went from being actively bad to being a top 60 player in the NBA. That's huge growth and he deserves props for it.

The reality is that somehow, even this year, the Zion + BI minutes were not, overall, good. Zion + BI + CJ were a -3.0 combination this season in over 730 minutes, the worst three man combination out of our top 10 most played three man combinations (source: basketball reference). Those three plus Herb was our most played 4 man combination, and was a -3.5, that is to say, Herb made it even worse.

This season, our 3pt attempt rate was 39.5% when only Zion was on the court, 38% when BI was on the court, and 32.46% when both of them were: 35% would have been worst in the league and we were significantly worse than that when they were both on the court.

Paying someone $50m a year when the fit looks like that is asking to fail. It is actively deciding to choose mediocrity. 48-52 wins a year may well happen, for a couple of years until we start losing people we can't afford to retain because our cap is screwed, but it's not a team that has any longevity in it and it can't improve in any major way. Unless you think this team, as currently constructed, is a championship roster (which I don't) then you pretty much have to accept a need for change, and the most obvious change to make is to not pay your second best guy (who may well be your third best guy in a year or two) a contract of that size.

[13 - 3]

Well we play the Kings on Friday. Surely we can’t blame the NBA . They have bent over backwards for us and we just don’t get job done.

[13 - 3]

I?m assuming it will 2 weeks for BI and Zion again. Gosh CJ is going to have to carry the weight Friday. #Pelslife

[Nichols]

A laker fan who like Ingram. ..no surprise

Ingram to me is a low impact player...I don't see him as the second best player on a title team so why not see what his trade value is and with that impending contract he will need to be worth that contract for this team to reach that level

I could be equally dismissive.. NO fan that knows nothing of winning, because they've never seen it with their franchise.

But I don't do that here. I've been a Pels fan since you acquired Heart, and Ingram. If I thought it was in the Pels best interest to move him I'd say so. But it obviously isn't. In response to your last point, I see nothing wrong with being open to all options. I just don't believe the Pels should be actively shopping Ingram.

[Nichols]

You lose credibility when you equate CJ and Ingram. Are we really having a serious conversation?

[Nichols]

For the record, I don't like one on one basketball. Isolating with Zion and Ingram is lazy coaching. They're both good at making tough shots, with that being said it's not a recipe for success. Would also be nice if they both didn't have to exclusively bear the burden of creating offense for everyone on the team including themselves.

A good point guard, and a better offensive scheme would do wonders for the Pels.

[new city champ]

Good analysis. Again, the basic question is a simple one: Can you build a contending team in the modern NBA around two stars who don't shoot 3 pointers and are average defenders? If you think you can, you probably keep Ingram and pay him his deal hoping you can make it work with Zion. If think you can not, then you trade Ingram for assets that fit and focus on building a roster of long, high-volume 3-point shooters around Zion.

[Pelicanidae]

Good analysis. Again, the basic question is a simple one: Can you build a contending team in the modern NBA around two stars who don't shoot 3 pointers and are average defenders? If you think you can, you probably keep Ingram and pay him his deal hoping you can make it work with Zion. If think you can not, then you trade Ingram for assets that fit and focus on building a roster of long, high-volume 3-point shooters around Zion.

You cannot.

Edit: though I will also say that Zion and BI are both capable of being above average defenders. They're both inconsistent with it, but both have clearly shown the ability. BI was great on defensive the end last season (and had a few good games this year) and Zion was a menace defensively most of the last 2 months.

[Nichols]

Good analysis. Again, the basic question is a simple one: Can you build a contending team in the modern NBA around two stars who don't shoot 3 pointers and are average defenders? If you think you can, you probably keep Ingram and pay him his deal hoping you can make it work with Zion. If think you can not, then you trade Ingram for assets that fit and focus on building a roster of long, high-volume 3-point shooters around Zion.

I don't think there's any excuse for BI not being consistent from 3. He's had enough time. With that being said, I think you need another burgeoning all-star to play with Zion and Ingram. There's 3 other positions to fill on the floor with them. So that leaves room for shooters to space the floor. They don't have to be great from 3, even though it would really open up the playbook.

Zion, and 2 replacements for Ingram isn't getting you a championship. But if you're content with just being competitive, and winning a few playoff series, that would do it. My mindset is just different I suppose. Generational talent, with two all-star caliber players and a quality supporting cast puts you in contention. A generational talent with two really good players, and a supporting cast isn't enough. And it wont be enough to keep Zion in NO. We also have to be honest. NO isn't a free agent destination. Do everything you can to keep the exceptional talent that you have, and build around it.

There is a reason why the basketball pundits were all saying "watch out for the Pels".. This team doesn't need a major overhaul. A few 3 point gunners on the floor with a real point guard, and an offensive system that isn't iso, and pick heavy is all that's needed. I really do believe in this squad.

[hornetsrebirth]

Reports are coming out that BI was furious about not getting on the floor in the 4th quarter and left the building very angry.

[donato]

Reports are coming out that BI was furious about not getting on the floor in the 4th quarter and left the building very angry.

If he felt healthy enough to play, then I think he should be angry. We left CJ out there who was an inefficient chucker all game.

[Freyfamilyreuni]

If he felt healthy enough to play, then I think he should be angry. We left CJ out there who was an inefficient chucker all game.

Yea, that didn?t make any sense to me. And it really seemed that Willie threw BI under the bus with his post game presser.

I think BI made a lot of improvements as an overall basketball player this year. His scoring dipped (I think anyway) and his three point shooting was certainly disappointing, but his overall defense and playmaking shot up.

The problem remains is that he and Zion just aren?t good fits together on the floor. BI doesn?t make for a good spacer, and Zion isn?t particularly good playing off the ball. I think Langdon/Griffin has to move one of them this off season.

[Pelicanidae]

If he felt healthy enough to play, then I think he should be angry. We left CJ out there who was an inefficient chucker all game.

BI was shooting 36% from the floor that game and had taken at least 5 god-awful early-mid shot clock contested middies. He would not have been an improvement over CJ and he was bricking the offense. If he wants to be angry at someone, he should be angry at himself. I rag on Green all the time for his horrible rotations but I'm not going to blame him for - in the wake of Zion's injury - continuing to play the only guys who actually looked like they wanted to play team basketball.

[JJackisangry]

It had to be the Lakers.

[hornetsrebirth]

Bi wasnt playing well but CJ was arguably worse. It makes it seem like Willie does not trust BI. It also makes me believe its possible we will move on from BI, which is something I never even considered.