The Pelicans Have Four Options. Here they Are

[da ThRONe]

And this is why I said it was pointless to discuss this stuff with you. You see it fundamentally different than almost everyone else.

We find ourselves at the same place. Me giving logic and reasoning and you agreeing to disagree based on what may or may not be the consensus on the forum.

[da ThRONe]

I think that if you look at the conference as a whole it looks insane, but if you look at each team individually, you only see 4 teams that are a lock for the playoffs IMO. I can't find a 5th that I would definitely put over us, especially if Gordon is gone and a SF is here

That number for me is 6. The bottom 2 spots are up for grabs and we are in the mix IMO. Ultimately I think we are team 9. Again wouldn't be shocked if we ended up as team 7.

[MichaelMcNamara]

That number for me is 6. The bottom 2 spots are up for grabs and we are in the mix IMO. Ultimately I think we are team 9. Again wouldn't be shocked if we ended up as team 7.

I got: LAC, SA, OKC, Houston - who else is a lock. Like, bet your car on it lock?

[Mythrol]

We find ourselves at the same place. Me giving logic and reasoning and you agreeing to disagree based on what may or may not be the consensus on the forum.

Yes. And I don't think it's worthwhile wasting my time trying to reason with you. We are at a point where we both have to see how the season plays out. And even then, I doubt you stop beating the drum of "we should have built through the draft".

[pawel]

Here the problem we never know we can only base opinions on the now. I don't think we are a playoff team even after this Asik deal. So IMO we gave away a lottery pick for a guy we aren't likely to retain next year. Of course we don't know and the pick isn't that big of a deal 20 and up.

So to answer your question of course if everything works out the deal looks different. It is such an obvious concept IMO it's not even worth the discussion. We should be discussing IMO are the chances "it" does go right.

the game of GM is sometimes gamble. ok Dell played this game last season, he is playin' now without visible results. but couple months ago Wizards went to play in and send unprotected 1rd pick to Suns for expiring contract. guess what happened? they have found the missing piece

this trade will look different if in next 3 years we will be in the top 5 of west (or top 10 in total) and only thing what we will send to HOU will be 2nd round pick... but I know - for now it is SciFi

You guys mentioned Bobnets (or Horcats?) -
simple trade Henderson, Biyombo and Neal for Gordon plus Ajinca
everyone is happy, we have got 3 expirings and some savings

Hornets are sending 2 unused players plus one which they don't like

[da ThRONe]

I got: LAC, SA, OKC, Houston - who else is a lock. Like, bet your car on it lock?

Golden State and Portland. Of course all of this is barring any major injuries.

[da ThRONe]

Yes. And I don't think it's worthwhile wasting my time trying to reason with you. We are at a point where we both have to see how the season plays out. And even then, I doubt you stop beating the drum of "we should have built through the draft".

Likewise I'm sure you'll beat the "whatever Dell did was right" drum even if we are unsuccessful.

Either way you don't want to engage me in logical discussion fine, but playing this game trying to peg me as being unreasonable is the only thing that you are wasting your time doing.

[DefensiveMind]

Bottom line is Dell has got to fix the Eric Gordon mistake. He's done a fine job sticking to his plan, but unfortunately like anyone that has taken college classes can attest to, you can't fix Fs with Bs. You need As. Eric Gordon is the test we bombed. Hopefully, we can get a makeup exam this summer in the form of a cap clearing move. If we do that I think even the most pessimistic of us have to see the light.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Golden State and Portland. Of course all of this is barring any major injuries.

So, like what Portland experienced last year?

Good luck getting that two years in a row.

A lock means no matter what. OKC makes the playoffs even if Westbrook gets hurt, SA makes it regardless. Clips lose CP3 and were still a playoff team. There are 4 locks in the West. The last 4 will come down to luck and circumstance IMO.

[da ThRONe]

So, like what Portland experienced last year?

Good luck getting that two years in a row.

A lock means no matter what. OKC makes the playoffs even if Westbrook gets hurt, SA makes it regardless. Clips lose CP3 and were still a playoff team. There are 4 locks in the West. The last 4 will come down to luck and circumstance IMO.

So OKC losing Durant makes them a lock? I'd agree the Spurs are really one of the few(if not only) teams that could lose their best player for almost the whole season and still be considered a lock in the West. Yeah Paul missed a decent amount of games but it wasn't like he missed half or more of the season.

[Kurgan]

Say, aldridge get injured for 60+ games. Do you still see portland making the playoffs? Personally, i don't

[Mythrol]

Likewise I'm sure you'll beat the "whatever Dell did was right" drum even if we are unsuccessful.

Either way you don't want to engage me in logical discussion fine, but playing this game trying to peg me as being unreasonable is the only thing that you are wasting your time doing.

Yep. I've never criticized this organization at all. Go pull up any number of game threads, fire Monty threads, EG contract threads, the Rolo trade, or anything of the like.

I don't see anything you are saying as necessarily "logical". Opinion yes, but in my view illogical opinion. Which is why I don't care to extend effort in making an argument against your point of view. I don't agree but I also don't care what your opinion is enough to do you the courtesy of laying out a case of what my views are. I've stated them enough and you just reply when I'm not directly talking to you anyway so it's worthless to answer your call to "explain what I disagree with and why".

This Asik trade has just showed me that some people WILL NEVER be happy, and it's tiring to the point that I don't want to engage with them. But for the benefit of understanding my viewpoint: We got a top tier defensive and rebounding center, fixing two of - if not the two biggest holes on our team. We only gave up a mid/late round pick which odds are they won't even receive next year, and if we have continued success might never receive a 1st rounder for him. We were able to pull this trade off with not just a conference rival but a division rival, and we were able to keep Ryan Anderson out of the trade which 12 months ago would have been the only way to get Asik. For us I see no way this was not a winner of a trade, but the extreme negativity which some people have responded with is not only shocking but frustrating. This from the some of the same people who called to trade Ryno for Asik last year, complained about the Rolo trade, and complained about our need for a C because AD "is a PF".

[da ThRONe]

Yep. I've never criticized this organization at all. Go pull up any number of game threads, fire Monty threads, EG contract threads, the Rolo trade, or anything of the like.

I don't see anything you are saying as necessarily "logical". Opinion yes, but in my view illogical opinion. Which is why I don't care to extend effort in making an argument against your point of view. I don't agree but I also don't care what your opinion is enough to do you the courtesy of laying out a case of what my views are. I've stated them enough and you just reply when I'm not directly talking to you anyway so it's worthless to answer your call to "explain what I disagree with and why".

This Asik trade has just showed me that some people WILL NEVER be happy, and it's tiring to the point that I don't want to engage with them. We got a top tier defensive and rebounding center, fixing two of - if not the two biggest holes on our team. We only gave up a mid/late round pick which odds are they won't even receive next year, and if we have continued success might never receive a 1st rounder for him. We were able to pull this trade off with not just a conference rival but a division rival, and we were able to keep Ryan Anderson out of the trade which 12 months ago would have been the only way to get Asik. For us I see no way this was not a winner of a trade, but the extreme negativity which some people have responded with is not only shocking but frustrating. This from the some of the same people who called to trade Ryno for Asik last year, complained about the Rolo trade, and complained about our need for a C because AD "is a PF".

I've already called the pairing of Davis and Asik a good thing. You only take away what you want from my comments. Which is largely the problem you want to find offense with everything I post and you do. You are talking about us keeping Anderson, but considering this deal isn't finalized he could be gone as a result of this trade.

If my comments aren't logical then might I suggest not paying them any mind. You know since they aren't worth your time and all.

[Mythrol]

I've already called the pairing of Davis and Asik a good thing. You only take away what you want from my comments. Which is largely the problem you want to find offense with everything I post and you do. You are talking about us keeping Anderson, but considering this deal isn't finalized he could be gone as a result of this trade.

If my comments aren't logical then might I suggest not paying them any mind. You know since they aren't worth your time and all.

First, if Anderson is traded it is not a result of this trade. If we move him it is because that is where we see the best value. If we want to keep him, we will.

Also, You said this just a few posts back,

"Here the problem we never know we can only base opinions on the now. I don't think we are a playoff team even after this Asik deal. So IMO we gave away a lottery pick for a guy we aren't likely to retain next year. Of course we don't know and the pick isn't that big of a deal 20 and up."

Or this

"At this point I don't even fault Demps he's saving his job. I can't imagine I would be doing anything else in his shoes. I like the fit of Asik next to Davis. The future 1st is terrible in my world, but in his reality what difference does it make? He won't be here to make the pick if we don't make a huge jump in record this year."

You certainly aren't in the clear as your above post makes it apparent you don't like the trade (because in your opinion we will still fail). So am I misreading your posts? Am I only taking away what I want? Have you changed your opinion since posting the above?

But Thats irrelevant because I wasn't just specifically talking about you but multiple people being extremely negative about the trade.

[da ThRONe]

First, if Anderson is traded it is not a result of this trade. If we move him it is because that is where we see the best value. If we want to keep him, we will.

Also, You said this just a few posts back,

"Here the problem we never know we can only base opinions on the now. I don't think we are a playoff team even after this Asik deal. So IMO we gave away a lottery pick for a guy we aren't likely to retain next year. Of course we don't know and the pick isn't that big of a deal 20 and up."

Or this

"At this point I don't even fault Demps he's saving his job. I can't imagine I would be doing anything else in his shoes. I like the fit of Asik next to Davis. The future 1st is terrible in my world, but in his reality what difference does it make? He won't be here to make the pick if we don't make a huge jump in record this year."

You certainly aren't in the clear as your above post makes it apparent you don't like the trade (because in your opinion we will still fail). So am I misreading your posts? Am I only taking away what I want? Have you changed your opinion since posting the above?

But Thats irrelevant because I wasn't just specifically talking about you but multiple people being extremely negative about the trade.

Like most things in life it's give and take. I think Asik next to Davis is a good fit. However I don't think we'll be able to keep Asik due the cap situation we currently have so I'm not thrilled by the trade. It's a huge low percentage gamble IMO. The same way I felt giving Gordon a max deal was the low percentage move. However given that I think Dell is on the hot seat I can completely understand why trading away a future pick isn't a big deal to him.

I don't see how any of that is a contradiction. Love the Asik/Davis pairing hate Asik is an expiring. Understand what Dell is doing and why I think he's doing it, but would have preferred for it to be done another way.

[Mythrol]

Like most things in life it's give and take. I think Asik next to Davis is a good fit. However I don't think we'll be able to keep Asik due the cap situation we currently have so I'm not thrilled by the trade. It's a huge low percentage gamble IMO. The same way I felt giving Gordon a max deal was the low percentage move. However given that I think Dell is on the hot seat I can completely understand why trading away a future pick isn't a big deal to him.

I don't see how any of that is a contradiction. Love the Asik/Davis pairing hate Asik is an expiring. Understand what Dell is doing and why I think he's doing it, but would have preferred for it to be done another way.

Wait. Why would we ever lose Asik? We can either sign him to a contract within his own cap hold before the season even starts (8.3M increasing), we can make a move and have more cap to offer him a 10M+ increasing before the season starts, or we can use his Bird's Rights to sign him next offseason, which gives us a huge advantage over any other team (7.5% increase each year instead of only 4.5%; and can sign him even over the cap).

I see no scenario where we lose Asik unless we don't want him.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Wait. Why would we ever lose Asik? We can either sign him to a contract within his own cap hold before the season even starts (8.3M increasing), we can make a move and have more cap to offer him a 10M+ increasing before the season starts, or we can use his Bird's Rights to sign him next offseason, which gives us a huge advantage over any other team (7.5% increase each year instead of only 4.5%; and can sign him even over the cap).

I see no scenario where we lose Asik unless we don't want him.

Yes Benson has already indicated that he is willing to go into the lux tax to do so.
Otherwise he wouldn't be paying for the other 7M Asik is owed that doesn't go towards the cap.

[da ThRONe]

Wait. Why would we ever lose Asik? We can either sign him to a contract within his own cap hold before the season even starts (8.3M increasing), we can make a move and have more cap to offer him a 10M+ increasing before the season starts, or we can use his Bird's Rights to sign him next offseason, which gives us a huge advantage over any other team (7.5% increase each year instead of only 4.5%; and can sign him even over the cap).

I see no scenario where we lose Asik unless we don't want him.

Short answer is he's a UFA. He can go where ever he wants. He's not choosing to sign here like Morrow did we are acquiring him via trade so we don't know if Asik even wants to be on this team for starters.

Provided we aren't trading Gordon or any of the core members how are we going to pay Asik then pay Anderson the following year then Evans and Holiday the next? Oh yeah and fit Davis' already presumed max deal? While still funding a remotely competent bench?

Will Asik like sitting on the bench in the clutch when we go with Davis and Anderson to close the game? He had a problem being benched by Howard he could view not playing when the games matter most as in insult.

There are so many variables that can play out most of which Asik is gone after this year. Again I view it similarly like I viewed giving Gordon a max deal low percentage gamble.

[da ThRONe]

Yes Benson has already indicated that he is willing to go into the lux tax to do so.
Otherwise he wouldn't be paying for the other 7M Asik is owed that doesn't go towards the cap.

The other 7 million is dollar for dollar it's not 2 to 1 or whatever the luxury tax is. Also this is not to say that you are wrong but I haven't heard or read anything about Benson being willing to go into the luxury tax if need be. If you could post a link it would be appreciated.

[cki3915]

Yes Benson has already indicated that he is willing to go into the lux tax to do so.
Otherwise he wouldn't be paying for the other 7M Asik is owed that doesn't go towards the cap.

This isn't baseball. Almost no one willingly goes into the lux tax. 9 times out of 10, if you're in tax territory, you blundered your way there.

[MichaelMcNamara]

The other 7 million is dollar for dollar it's not 2 to 1 or whatever the luxury tax is. Also this is not to say that you are wrong but I haven't heard or read anything about Benson being willing to go into the luxury tax if need be. If you could post a link it would be appreciated.

Link where he said he wouldn't?

[da ThRONe]

Link where he said he wouldn't?

Why would I post a link about something that may not even exist? When it wasn't me making the statements to begin with. You are better than this MM.

If a person can't back up their comment with actual tangible proof then it's just hearsay. Which is fine and is not meant to discredit what he believe he's heard/read mentioned in the past. But we are all guilty of misremembering things we thought we heard or read. And I'm not going to proceed in a discussion under the assumption Benson will undoubtedly go into the luxury tax until there is tangible proof.

[PelicanFever]

the only possible evidence that we have so far that can predict whether Benson will pay the lux tax or not is the fact that he is willing to pay Asik's poison pill salary of 15 Mill...with that fact, I would think it is more likely than not at this point in time that Benson is willing to pay the lux tax...nothing to contradict that notion so far

[MichaelMcNamara]

Why would I post a link about something that may not even exist? When it wasn't me making the statements to begin with. You are better than this MM.

If a person can't back up their comment with actual tangible proof then it's just hearsay. Which is fine and is not meant to discredit what he believe he's heard/read mentioned in the past. But we are all guilty of misremembering things we thought we heard or read. And I'm not going to proceed in a discussion under the assumption Benson will undoubtedly go into the luxury tax until there is tangible proof.

His point was that Asik's contract shows that he would be willing to pay a premium to field a winning roster. There is not definitive proof, but there isn't any on the other side either. His assertion that Benson could go into the tax is relevant, because if true, it woud ease some of the worries of the people arguing the other side. Do we know for sure, either way, but between the Asik deal, Dell often saying that he has been given all the resources he needs, Benson spending big with Saints in recent years, and the fact that the franchise is 1.5 to 2.5 times more valuable now than when he bought it - I think there is far more evidence to assume that he would pay it than he wouldnt if we had to guess.

[David Fisher]

Plenty of reasons to come to the conclusion Benson will spend. He employs the most expensive coach in American professional sports. He owns an NFL team that prints money. He is paying Asik $15M this season despite a much lower cap hit. He paid Rashard Lewis $13.4M to not play for the team in 2012-13. Which absolute fact do you disagree with?

Benson won't pay the max because he's a small market owner is an assumption. It is based on the actions of other small market owners. Do those owners also own NFL teams in the same market? Do we have ample evidence of those owners spending large? No. We do with Benson. Stop ignoring evidence and accepting an assumption based on different circumstances.