I agree with this, simply because Griffin is at least adequate on both sides of the ball. I've never ever liked one sided players, and Loves no exception.Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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I agree with this, simply because Griffin is at least adequate on both sides of the ball. I've never ever liked one sided players, and Loves no exception.
I don't like that argument because people make it both ways.
If a guy has good teammates, it was easier for him and the stats shouldn't count. But then if a guy has no teammates, he puts up inflated stats and they don't really count.
Or a guy with good teammates doesn't get enough shots because he has to share and a guy on a bad team is justified in shooting a lower percentage because the defense is focusing on him.
Depending on what people believe, they make the argument fit. Lets drop all that. Griffin had a superior all around game this year. We all are in awe of the Spurs - well Blake is the best passing PF in the league. He makes his teammates better. In no way, shape, or form does Love make his team or his teammates better.
Regardless, they are the top 2. AD can get there as early as next year, and I will be shocked if he isn't the best in the 2015-16 season and beyond.
@mcnamara247
Wow I'm embarrassed, complete mind blank. I love me some Aldridge. It depends on how you rank them I think, is take Blake on my team over Aldridge because of youth and athleticism, but I love LAs consistency. Then again I'd take AD over Blake.
Fair enough....I just can't look past the hate I have for the player he is.
I'm old school....big dunks and highlights don't make me fall in love with a player.
Get out of here with that. His stats have declined since his rookie year in almost every category. He is below average everywhere except around the rim where he has the best PG in the league feeding him. He's mostly hype.
Out of all PF's he's in competition for 3rd place.
Sorry don't know how to enlarge it.
This was true of his career until this year. He took a huge leap.
Blake is the best player on his team currently
I'm a grinder
And if you think that is what Blake is now, then you haven't been watching. Guy scored 1930 points this year, 352 came on dunks. That means, of the 24 ppg he averaged, 4 came on dunks. People who think that his game is all dunks and highlights havent watched him this year.
This would be a good argument if:
A) It were true
b) Blake didnt put up his best numbers WITHOUT CP3 this year. When Paul was hurt, he went off, averaging 28.3 points per game (55% FG) and scoring 25 or more in 18 of the 20 of the games Paul missed.
So, those are the facts, not the false narrative that is passed along because he is a guy we dont like.
Man, I cant believe I am defending Blake Griffin. What has this world come to?
Last edited by MichaelMcNamara; 06-16-2014 at 08:18 PM.
It is a tough call, but I do not see Griffin making anyone better. That team was nothing before CP3 joined them. He does not have the range Love has at all but he plays better defense. He is a better passer than Love (although Love is not bad). So, I think either side has a good argument.
I'd love for us to bring in Greg Monroe. Go after Birdman. Dump Eric Gordon. See if we can get a guy like Patti Mills and retain Anthony Morrow. Give Austin Rivers half of this season to see if he shows improvement. As long as we're healthy, a Jrue, Tyreke, Aminu, AD, and Monroe line up doesn't sound bad at all in the West. I sure wish we'd go after Mark Jackson though...
"Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it."
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so having the best PG in the league made him worse. oh ok. sounds plausible.
I listed facts, you came back with an exaggeration of my argument and no facts.
Neither one of us win a prize if we are right. Just be civil, debate intelligently, and walk away with whatever opinions you want. Now, if you have facts to dispute what I said, like the facts I presented to dispute your claim, I would welcome them. If not, we can agree to disagree and the world will go on.
No, i think the point is, Griffin's production is not dependent on playing with an elite PG.
"I don't know if people know — I dislocated my pinkie finger. And [Tyreke] told me, 'You wanna go home or you wanna be here?' I want to be here. And he said, 'All right, then go tape it up and let's play. Let's go. We not stoppin' at no stores. Straight gas. That's what we do, just keep going.'"
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But would you trade AD for Blake one for one with current contract? So who is the best and who is the most valuable?
I dunno Griffin to me is pretty average on defense, for someone with his size and athleticism he should be way more of defensive monster. I mean for a dude how can pretty much jump out of the gym and how big and quick he is, he should be better IMO. I def feel like I have seen him be pretty lazy on defense before much like Harden, which is how DeAndre always gets so many blocks. Granted I didnt watch to many Clippers games so my Window of watching him as been pretty small.
I wouldn't even consider it. But Blake was better in 2013-14.
I think AD will be an all time great. Top 10-15 of all time, so I wouldn't trade him for anyone in this league except for LBJ
Exactly. Two straight people said that Griffin was basically a product of CP3. How could that be true if his numbers actually got better w/o CP3?
I never liked the guy and I thought he was one dimensional his first 2-3 years, but what he did last yr was nothing short of amazing.
AD was 20-21. I would absolutely not trade AD at their same respective ages. And to be fair i think Ads ceiling is higher than BGs, which is saying a lot considering the 3 vote. AD will be a mvp candidate within 3 years if we make it to the playoffs and past round 1 in the next 2 years.
I already listed facts (most of his stats have declined). which they have. outside of FT% and assists (0.2 higher) no regular stat was higher this year than a previous year. unless you count Turnovers and fouls (tied for highest ever).
when you look at advanced stats TS% increased because he made more FTs but most other stats was lower this year than a previous year.
I also listed how he is below average at every range except for within 3 ft of the goal.
you responded to this by saying I was wrong and making no argument other than to say he played best when CP3 wasn't in the game.
you have your opinion and aren't actually interested in discussing it because you passed over my actual points. but Blake Griffin isn't with my time and I don't care to continue a discuss about him. you say he was the best PF last year. stats do not show this. that is fact.
I already listed facts (most of his stats have declined). which they have. outside of FT% and assists (0.2 higher) no regular stat was higher this year than a previous year. unless you count Turnovers and fouls (tied for highest ever).
when you look at advanced stats TS% increased because he made more FTs but most other stats was lower this year than a previous year.
I also listed how he is below average at every range except for within 3 ft of the goal.
you responded to this by saying I was wrong and making no argument other than to say he played best when CP3 wasn't in the game.
you have your opinion and aren't actually interested in discussing it because you passed over my actual points. but Blake Griffin isn't with my time and I don't care to continue a discuss about him. you say he was the best PF last year. stats do not show this. that is fact.
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I know how you feel, sh______ on blake was my job for the past few years, but you cant deny it when a guy makes a jump. Refusing to change an opinion with new, pertinent information is either a function of insanity or stupidity.
the guy before me addressed your claims that his stats regressed every year, which is partly true at best. TS went up, as you said. Assists, steals, and FT attempts per 36 are up, as is his FT percentage and PER.
I was responding to your exact quote, "he has the best PG in the league feeding him"
Because this is only relevant if he is a lesser player when Paul is not there. But he is not. His points, FG%, and assists all increased a good deal.
But it really seems like your just glancing over his stats and picking and choosing the ones you think are important. It was fun hating on him, but besides rebounding, hes a better, more efficient player than hes ever been. I don't see how that's even objectively debatable. And thats without the eye test, which anyone whos watch more than 5 clippers games a year for the past 4 years will tell you, shows that he is the most important player on their team, gets his plays in the flow of the offense much more than he ever did, and he makes the players around him better
also you contradicting yourself. Your saying his rookie year was his best, but his only year without paul was his rookie year. If hes a product of Chris paul, then his stats his rookie year were obviously inflated by him being the main guy with no help on a bad team, and hes clearly a much better player since then.
Last edited by Pelicantoo; 06-16-2014 at 09:51 PM.
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