Mike D'Antoni Resigns

[RaisingTheBar]

Defense doesn't matter in playoffs, SUUUUUURE. Last year's Conf finals were Memphis vs. Spurs and Pacers vs. Heat

[BallSoHard]

I think he is currently in a lose-lose situation. He has an athlete for a PG who won't stop shooting, and the 2nd best player in the world who doesn't have the balls to tell him to stop.

Don't you think that;'s the coach's job to tell him to stop?

[IamQuailman]

How many has Monty won? Who has made it deeper in the Playoffs? Who has a better win %?

I don't care about Mike D. But at least the guy has gotten his team to the finals. What has Monty proved other than he's an under achiever and he's stuck in 90s basketball? People talk about the game evolving and Mike D not with the times. What does that make Monty? A Dinosaur? And on top of that he's not even living up to the one thing he's suppose to be good at. Coaching defense.

I'm not on any bandwagon with either of them. But some of the arguments people are making against Mike D is just plain silly.

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Let's bring in Avery Johnson and Mike Brown then. They made the Conference Finals.

You are basing Monty's defense off what? The last two years when we were 1) incomplete (12-13) and 2) unprecedently slammed by injuries (13-14). How was Dantoni's offense and defense this season when slammed with injuries?

[RaisingTheBar]

Same with Vogel. Wasnt he top 5 in that ESPN poll of top coaches just a few months ago? Now he is all of a sudden terrible and doesnt deserve a job?

Oh how fickle people can be.

From a GM/ownership perspective someone needs to be held accountable if a team's expectation is a championship, and that expectation isn't achieved, or in this case horribly off target. Vogel isn't terrible but if Bird thinks something needs to change then something does (IMO Stevenson and George cannot be on the same team but coaches are held more accountable, don't ask me why I don't know). But Vogel won't be out of a job for long if he is fired.

[IamQuailman]

I don't know about you guys but I might boycott next year's season if Monty comes back.

PLEASE FOR THR LOVE OF GOD, KEEP MONTY! IF ONLY FOR THIS.

[RaisingTheBar]

PLEASE FOR THR LOVE OF GOD, KEEP MONTY! IF ONLY FOR THIS.

[Kibner]

It's not like he was attending games or buying anything not Ryno related, anyway.

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[da ThRONe]

My point wasn't that D'antoni is trash.

My point is that top defenses have trumped top offenses. The last few teams that have made it to recent WCF/ECFs were sound offensively but much more so defensively.

This has more to do with player personnel than coaching IMO. I'm certainly not trying to undermine the importance of defense. Just saying that I think you can win it all with an offensives minded coach. In basketball great offense beats great defense unlike in football. When you have teams that feature players like LeBron/Wade/Bosh, Shaq/Kobe, Kobe/Bynum/Gasol, Garnett/Pierce/Allen, Duncan/Parker/Ginobili etc winning titles will never be easy.

[Mythrol]

Let's bring in Avery Johnson and Mike Brown then. They made the Conference Finals.

You are basing Monty's defense off what? The last two years when we were 1) incomplete (12-13) and 2) unprecedently slammed by injuries (13-14). How was Dantoni's offense and defense this season when slammed with injuries?

I agree. I don't understand the hate on Avery Johnson. My point is you trying to say Mike D not winning a ring as a negative is just foolish. Dude got to the big dance, which is more than our coach can say. I'm not pushing for him; but if I had to rate them I'd put Avery and Mike D ahead of Monty.

[Caffeinedisastr]

I agree. I don't understand the hate on Avery Johnson. My point is you trying to say Mike D not winning a ring as a negative is just foolish. Dude got to the big dance, which is more than our coach can say. I'm not pushing for him; but if I had to rate them I'd put Avery and Mike D ahead of Monty.

I agree. He was a good coach before he got to NJ and "coach killer" Deron. Prokorov is impatient to begin with. Wouldn't surprise me if Kidd was in the unemployment line in the offseason.

[MichaelMcNamara]

He had a good record in Dallas, but few thought he was a good coach.

The big criticism with Avery is that he wears his players out with his constant yelling and over coaching. Also lacks creativity with his lineups and his offensive sets. He just had a ton of talent in Dallas, so the record masked these problems. Then, eventually the players were close to a mutiny.

This is the problem with assessing coaches - How do we assess them Wins/losses? If so, Vogel was an amazing coach in November-February and all of a sudden, he is terrible. Championships? Well, if so, you better have a top 5 player, otherwise you will likely be a "bad" coach.

So I put that on you all - How should we judge them?

[RaisingTheBar]

Instead of debating importance of rings/conf finals or which coach is 'better', I'd like to pose the question which coach that is available (possibly coming available) would we all be willing to fire Monty for? MM I know you said Monty isn't going anywhere next year, this would just be for fun.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I would fire him if I was guaranteed:

Hoiberg
Shaka
Calipari
David Fizdale
Gregg Marshall

in that order

[jgman]

[RaisingTheBar]

When? Why? What did I just watch?

[Kibner]

This is the problem with assessing coaches - How do we assess them Wins/losses? If so, Vogel was an amazing coach in November-February and all of a sudden, he is terrible. Championships? Well, if so, you better have a top 5 player, otherwise you will likely be a "bad" coach.

So I put that on you all - How should we judge them?

I have no real objective way to judge them. The best I can come up with is a simplified list of positives and negatives. And that would still be fairly subjective from person to person. A lot of it is tied up in we really don't have the access to the methodology coaches have to improve and guide their teams nor a way to measure how effective they are at it. We just have results of games played which is far more heavily influenced by players.

[Trell]

Just read the Lakers are planning to reach out to Thibodeau. This is from bleacherreport so take it for what it's worth.

[Caffeinedisastr]

How should we judge them?

There are many factors to weigh.

Player development under them
W/L Record taking into account the talent of individuals on the roster as opposed to the team as a whole
Defensive/offensive schemes
Positive or negative player/GM relationships
Coaching style - yeller vs soft-spoken

That's just naming the factors coming off the top of my head.
I don't envy Dell being the boss and having to make that sort of decision.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I have no real objective way to judge them. The best I can come up with is a simplified list of positives and negatives. And that would still be fairly subjective from person to person. A lot of it is tied up in we really don't have the access to the methodology coaches have to improve and guide their teams nor a way to measure how effective they are at it. We just have results of games played which is far more heavily influenced by players.

Exactly. We don't know, so we speculate. Maybe Monty hated Stiemsma as much as all of us, but once he knew we weren't getting to the playoffs, he decided that saving AD's body was a priority this season. Maybe Scott Brooks was told by Durant that Westbrook has the better matchup and he should be the primary guy in this series. We don't know, so we speculate. And that is what makes judging these guys so hard.

[Jabberwalker]

I like the question "What has Diantoni done". Oh, just changed the way that offense is played in today's NBA that's all. I remember seeing a graph of average points per game for the NBA through all time. When the run and gun Suns took hole it changed the landscape of the entire league. Championship or not the guy's system changed how we think about offense.
There are a tone of both positive and negative things to say about him but would his system work on our team? I think so. Would it work better than our current system? I think so. That still doesn't mean that I can turn a blind eye to other issues with him or that I think he is the answer. I also very much value stability so I think it'd be a lateral move to slight upgrade.

[BallSoHard]

I like the question "What has Diantoni done". Oh, just changed the way that offense is played in today's NBA that's all. I remember seeing a graph of average points per game for the NBA through all time. When the run and gun Suns took hole it changed the landscape of the entire league. Championship or not the guy's system changed how we think about offense.
There are a tone of both positive and negative things to say about him but would his system work on our team? I think so. Would it work better than our current system? I think so. That still doesn't mean that I can turn a blind eye to other issues with him or that I think he is the answer. I also very much value stability so I think it'd be a lateral move to slight upgrade.

Yes, he has revolutionized offense in the NBA but everyone's all caught up now. So now, what does he bring? I guess that's why i'm not in favor of him.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Don't you think that;'s the coach's job to tell him to stop?

Two things:

1. How do we know he hasn't?

This is the biggest thing we don't know about coaching. We assume that players just do what the coach says. But if you have ever coached, you know that you are lucky if the players follow 40-50% of your orders. Instinct just takes over when the game is being played.

2. It is dangerous to give this instruction to a player.

What do you tell him? Never shoot? Obviously not. Only shoot when you are open? That is kind of subjective and is really unclear once you attack the hole. Start each play in Durant's hands? Well, that becomes really predictable. And then what do I do when he gives it back to me?

Coaching on our couch is so easy, but people need to experience it on some level to realize how different it is compared to our perceptions.

[BallSoHard]

Two things:

1. How do we know he hasn't?

This is the biggest thing we don't know about coaching. We assume that players just do what the coach says. But if you have ever coached, you know that you are lucky if the players follow 40-50% of your orders. Instinct just takes over when the game is being played.

2. It is dangerous to give this instruction to a player.

What do you tell him? Never shoot? Obviously not. Only shoot when you are open? That is kind of subjective and is really unclear once you attack the hole. Start each play in Durant's hands? Well, that becomes really predictable. And then what do I do when he gives it back to me?

Coaching on our couch is so easy, but people need to experience it on some level to realize how different it is compared to our perceptions.

1. I would assume that the coach would hand down some sort of disciplinary action if the player is ignoring instruction.

2. I've actually coached before, clearly not at the nba level, and understand it's hard.

[MichaelMcNamara]

So, what do you do? Bench Westbrook? The guy who got you to OT with a steal and dunk.

Give D Fisher more minutes and risk completely losing Westbrook and all the positive things he gives you too.

It's just not that easy IMO


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[Mythrol]

I

So, what do you do? Bench Westbrook? The guy who got you to OT with a steal and dunk.

Give D Fisher more minutes and risk completely losing Westbrook and all the positive things he gives you too.

It's just not that easy IMO


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Actually. Yeah. I think you have to. He's averaging almost 26 shots a game in this series. They were better last year without Westbrook than with him this year. Sadly, when your MVP player says he has to play as a decoy and that's his role then something has got to give.

Westbrook being healthy is far more damaging than Westbrook being injured for that team. If benching him means Durant goes from decoy to main guy then you gotta do it.

If EG could bring one added skill like rebounding to the table then I wouldn't trade him for Westbrook. I think you summed it up perfectly awhile back when you said Westbrook is a player you hate to have on your team and hate to go against. He is completely unique in that regard.

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