Monty will return next year

[42]

I think Williams is horrible and has to go for numerous reasons. But LOL at calling everyone who disagrees with your stance "clueless."

Exactly

[BallSoHard]

Well, I was trying to leave it vague to be nice, but this is an internet forum after all right?

Ill rephrase, with more detail

1) non-conformist - It is not about conforming or not-conforming to my or this forums wishes, that I am referring too. It is the incessant need of some to go against the grain. Monty Williams is a terrible head coach. Stats prove this, our record proves this, our players continuing to be in the wrong place and make the wrong decision prove this. Those that defend Monty NEVER, and I mean NEVER, actually provide a positive reason for him to stay. Their pathetic excuses are just that... excuses. "Injuries" "rising head coach" "bad players" "he is on the Olympic team", is honestly what it boils down to. Please note, none of these illustrate anything he has ACCOMPLISHED.....why is this?? It's quite simply really, he has not ACCOMPLISHED anything. We have seen 4 years of getting worse (talent vs. production).. Injuries... honestly, even injured we have a better line up than some of the teams we have played. How can anyone actually defend a "defensive minded" coach, whose defense is pathetic?? 29 out of 30 i believe???

2) Utterly clueless - well this is pretty self-explanatory..... If you think that Monty Williams is a good head coach, you are utterly clueless. "the professionals know what they are doing." Really??? then why do about 20% of all coaches get fired every year? Where there is smoke.... there is fire - cliches exist for a reason - they are true. The VAST MAJORITY of the pelicans fans have turned on our coach. (This is the smoke --- now we just need the fire(ing))

If you are not frustrated with Monty's coaching then that is a far bigger statement on your basketball IQ than mine............................Inept defensive schemes, clear management mistakes, ZERO EXECUTION, poor timeout usage, even worse substitutions, and of course my favorite -- his ability to ICE whoever is having a great game. You see, unlike Monty apologists, I can give evidence and reasons to my claims that he is a terrible coach. I am not making any excuses in my attack, I am simply listing plain-as-day inefficiencies. (Here is an easy one --- letting B. Rob dribble up the court while getting hounded and barely making the 8 count - REPEATEDLY, while there are better ball handlers on the court that other teams WOULD NOT EVEN TRY TO PRESS) Hey Monty apologists....count how many times you hear him scream (swweeeett at the 5 second mark) every time you hear that, realize you are defending a bad head coach,,,,,,it should be at least 20-25 times per game.

Sadly, I also feel that Monty will be back next year, but that does not make it right. And that certainly does not mean that I should sit down and trust the experts. Dell is a rookie GM, Benson and Loomis are football guys.....yet the fans that pay their bills cannot question their judgement??

kite - lighting storm,,,, or something like that.

Hilarious ; so much self backpatting. If i ever want to know how great you are, i'll make sure to ask you.

[IamQuailman]

What if I half agree with Bongzilla? Does that make me half clueless? Half-conformist? I don't know how to align myself here and I'm feeling all kinds of confused.

I need some direction in my life; please advise.

[Silverfoxx]

So we can close the Fire Monty thread then right?



Best Case- Monty improves in the offseason with more seasoned sessions and scouting of the the team talent. Learns to thank beyond his 90s philosophy and TRIES different implements (like he is doing now so far). Roberts,Greg, Aminu is gone. Replacements are brought in. Stay healthy and make the playoffs.

Worst Case- Monty feels untouchable and sticks to his stubborness and teach flawed philosophies. Players bail on him, waste another season. Health mss. Disgruntled AD. Clean house.

[jgman]

Best Case Scenario(s) - 1. Monty stays, still sucks, AD wins us championship, 2. Monty stays, gets better, AD wins us championship, and 3. Monty leaves, AD wins championship

Worst Case Scenario(s) - 1. Monty stays, sucks, AD wins championship elsewhere, 2. Monty stays, does well, AD wins championship elsewhere, and 3. Monty and AD leave, both with championships else where

Super Worst Case Scenario - Monty leaves, takes AD with him, wins championship together elsewhere

[UNO Gracias]

I am letting my money do my talking for me. Have fun peddling overpriced tickets.

[HornetsFan90277]

I am letting my money do my talking for me. Have fun peddling overpriced tickets.

Love this reasoning here. Solid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[504ByrdGang]

I think it's true because speaking about Gordon, Loomis would leave him out in speaking on the future and sort of dodge certain questions he did want to answer giving a PR response. But with Monty he was letting it be know he is here to stay for next year. I think maybe they bring in some new assistant coach because it obvious despite the record coaching is a problem on this team. Just hope that Monty can learn to stop being so stubborn because he hasn't proven anything to earn that attitude he thinks he's pop but he's the furthest from it.

[Davisistheman]

I am letting my money do my talking for me. Have fun peddling overpriced tickets.

But you're still going to watch them on TV, right?

And come to pelicansreport and comment on how much the team is improving, or not improving, talk about which players should be in which rotations? FA, and trade speculations? Right?

[UNO Gracias]

But you're still going to watch them on TV, right?

And come to pelicansreport and comment on how much the team is improving, or not improving, talk about which players should be in which rotations? FA, and trade speculations? Right?

::

Will I watch the games on tv? No.
Come here to speculate? Probably not.
I am an accountant. Outside of here, I hardly ever talk about this organization, other than sharing my experience with their horrible ticket service.

[PolishFan]

And what exactly are you trained in?? Besides being a cynical internet gangster? (mommy is beaming with pride)

Most of my "data" is also common knowledge. I did not throw out random percentages or one sided stats, perhaps you should reread my post. Are you going on record to say you approve of the plays we run after time outs? How about the timing of our time outs? What about our substitution patterns? What about the fact that our best player will go 4 minutes WITHOUT TOUCHING THE BALL. Do I need stats for this?

However, you are the perfect example of #1 I listed above, so thank you for that.

Also, you are honestly claiming that I cannot use "vast majority". Have you been listening this season? Do the countless negative posts on the MAIN PELICANS FORUM about our coach not count as vast? How about talk radio? How about other internet sources? You want something we can track empirically -- fine, watch season ticket sales plummet.

Statistic analysis is far over valued on this board. Like stocks, you must use many tools, (charts, earnings per share, cash flow, company research, valuation, etc. etc.).

U sir are 100% right

[PolishFan]

And what exactly are you trained in?? Besides being a cynical internet gangster? (mommy is beaming with pride)

Most of my "data" is also common knowledge. I did not throw out random percentages or one sided stats, perhaps you should reread my post. Are you going on record to say you approve of the plays we run after time outs? How about the timing of our time outs? What about our substitution patterns? What about the fact that our best player will go 4 minutes WITHOUT TOUCHING THE BALL. Do I need stats for this?

However, you are the perfect example of #1 I listed above, so thank you for that.

Also, you are honestly claiming that I cannot use "vast majority". Have you been listening this season? Do the countless negative posts on the MAIN PELICANS FORUM about our coach not count as vast? How about talk radio? How about other internet sources? You want something we can track empirically -- fine, watch season ticket sales plummet.

Statistic analysis is far over valued on this board. Like stocks, you must use many tools, (charts, earnings per share, cash flow, company research, valuation, etc. etc.).

Some of the fans are patronizing you cause i guess it makes them feel smarter but still they cannot give answers to your points

[FlyGirl]

Will I watch the games on tv? No.
Come here to speculate? Probably not.
I am an accountant. Outside of here, I hardly ever talk about this organization, other than sharing my experience with their horrible ticket service.

Honest question...... what's keeping you here right now? If they keep Monty next year you won't watch games on tv or come here. Monty is here NOW so what exactly is keeping you here right now?

[tdcreator]

Everyone is bashing a coach who's team isn't going to make the playoffs, wait we weren't projected to make the playoffs. We traded for a player who isn't going to even play a half a season, our 3 point specialist (beside Morrow) isn't playing half the season, and our starting center isn't playing most of the season and we're wondering why we suck. I think there is a little overreaction. If we had a full roster I'd bet we would be in the mix for the 8th seed.

I do wish I'd see more improvement in our young players. Good coaches can step up even with lesser players but I'm not going to overreact to us losing. I'd give him one more year and regardless of injuries if we don't see drastic improvement then he has to go. My problem is who is out there better. A college coach is going to be learning on the job (which may take a year or two)and Karl can maybe give you a couple of years. I'd like Karl personally but I'm not ready to stick a fork in Monty just yet.

[UNO Gracias]

Honest question...... what's keeping you here right now? If they keep Monty next year you won't watch games on tv or come here. Monty is here NOW so what exactly is keeping you here right now?

I am invested in the tank (if nothing else). Once I know we are completely out of the bottom 5 I am gone til Monty leaves.

[FlyGirl]

I am invested in the tank (if nothing else). Once I know we are completely out of the bottom 5 I am gone til Monty leaves.

Oh, okay.

[UNO Gracias]

The reason we are bad doesn't pass the smell test. You can't blame injuries, you just can't.

We lost Ryno, but Morrow is shooting better this year than Ryno ever has in his career.
We lost our starting pg Jrue, but we are not forced to play Roberts. When you are minus your #1 pg you should play the matchups and rotate between Roberts and Rivers and sometimes Tyreke. We haven't.
We have talent on this team. Davis, Gordon,Evans, Morrow. Heck, Steisma, Aminu, and Ajinca are all in the top 15% of the league in defense. With this much talent, we shouldn't be where we are. Injuries suck, but they are no reason why we should have this record. We should still be competing for the 8th spot.

[BallSoHard]

Some of the fans are patronizing you cause i guess it makes them feel smarter but still they cannot give answers to your points

I think the real problem is, is dismissing other's opinions as foolish, calling into people's basketball IQs and generally just being offensive in tone and dismissive of anyone else's argument. I don't think anyone on this forum would go up to bat for Monty Williams, but there are people that understand that there are circumstances that drive a result and understand a lot of those circumstances were out of Monty's control. To call them pitiful excuses really isn't fair. It's like saying, why didn't you win in a game of 1 on 1? I tore my Achilles Tendon when the score was 1-1. Then someone responding with, "That's a pathetic excuse". There's a lot of things to attack Monty on, and i've said it 100 times, if we bring in a better replacement I would be 100% fine with it; but to completely dismiss very real circumstance is not a fair thing to take away from the argument. I feel like a lot (not all) of the people beating the fire Monty drum have so much venom in their veigns on the subject that no good arguments come about. When you start saying someone's basketball iq is low or saying they're "utterly clueless" because you have a different opinion then the only way anyone would respond would be to take it personally and be defensive.

[BallSoHard]

The reason we are bad doesn't pass the smell test. You can't blame injuries, you just can't.

We lost Ryno, but Morrow is shooting better this year than Ryno ever has in his career.
We lost our starting pg Jrue, but we are not forced to play Roberts. When you are minus your #1 pg you should play the matchups and rotate between Roberts and Rivers and sometimes Tyreke. We haven't.
We have talent on this team. Davis, Gordon,Evans, Morrow. Heck, Steisma, Aminu, and Ajinca are all in the top 15% of the league in defense. With this much talent, we shouldn't be where we are. Injuries suck, but they are no reason why we should have this record. We should still be competing for the 8th spot.

I think you had something going with this, but this is something we can't agree on. I agree injuries are not the sole reason to blame here and Monty has some fault. I don't think anyone with the injuries we had would be competing for an 8 seed. I just can't agree with that. Better record, for sure but not the 8 spot.

[UNO Gracias]

Disagree as we may, we are not losing this season solely because of injuries. You can overcome the loss of Jrue and Ryno, and we have been down AD (the only real person we can't afford to lose) for less than 10 games.

[Kibner]

The reason we are bad doesn't pass the smell test. You can't blame injuries, you just can't.

Davis, Gordon,Evans, Morrow. Heck, Steisma, Aminu, and Ajinca are all in the top 15% of the league in defense.

What stat are you using for individual player defense (all individual defensive stats I know of are terrible, but still)? I checked DRtg for those players and found this:

469 players total

Player  Rank Top%
Davis   118  25.1
Gordon  450  95.9
Evans   337  71.9
Morrow  447  95.3
Steisma 221  47.1
Aminu   260  55.4
Ajinca  304  64.8

0 of those players are in the top 15% of DRtg.

e: Fixed some types and added clarification

[UNO Gracias]

What stat are you using for individual player defense (they are all terrible, but still)? I checked dRTG for those players and found this:

469 players total

Player  Rank Top%
Davis   118  25.1
Gordon  450  95.9
Evans   337  71.9
Morrow  447  95.3
Steisma 221  47.1
Aminu   260  55.4
Ajinca  304  64.8

0 of those players are in the top 15% of dRTG.

http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingD...owsPerPage=100

[jgman]

The reason we are bad doesn't pass the smell test. You can't blame injuries, you just can't.

We lost Ryno, but Morrow is shooting better this year than Ryno ever has in his career.
We lost our starting pg Jrue, but we are not forced to play Roberts. When you are minus your #1 pg you should play the matchups and rotate between Roberts and Rivers and sometimes Tyreke. We haven't.
We have talent on this team. Davis, Gordon,Evans, Morrow. Heck, Steisma, Aminu, and Ajinca are all in the top 15% of the league in defense. With this much talent, we shouldn't be where we are. Injuries suck, but they are no reason why we should have this record. We should still be competing for the 8th spot.

So shooting better from 3 makes Morrow a better option to play than Anderson?
In case anyone here doesn't know, Rivers is still not good, he is shooting under 40% from the field and under 65% from the FT line again. everyone can see Roberts sucks, but does no one else see that Rivers isn't good either? Defense? sure, but if we were to give all roberts minutes to Rivers and Evans, then most all the minutes at the 3 would most likely go to Aminu, and we'd still suck
And where are you getting that Morrow, Gordon, Evans, STEAMER, Aminu, and AJINCA are in the top 15% of the league defensively? the only place I could find those numbers was your a**

I do think we could have a better record but we are 10 and 1/2 games out of the 8th spot, no way in hell we should have ~10 more wins than we do right now. 5? That would still only put us at .500 and really no different than we are now, out of a pick and out of the playoffs.

We just can't blame injuries? why not?
36.1mpg of 19.8ppg, 6.5rbs, and one of the top stretch 4's and 3pt threats in the game, GONE
33.6mpg of 14.3ppg, 7.9apg, a former allstar and premiere defender, GONE
26.8mpg of 9.7ppg, 5.8rpg, our biggest veteran leader(been on the team longer than anyone else on the roster) GONE

and you think shuffling around two 2nd year players in Roberts and Rivers, neither of whom have any statistical evidence backing up the fact that they are anything but mediocre apart from Robert's FT%, and two front court players whose best qualities include being large and fouling, can fill Jrue, Anderson, and Smith's shoes well enough to compete for a playoff spot? Injuries are a HUGE reason why we have this record. Has Monty done a poor job? sure but come on lets be realistic

[Kibner]

http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingD...owsPerPage=100

What stat are you using on that page? The only one that, for me, makes sense to use is "Opp FGP at Rim" but why are you using that in the evaluation of Gordon, Evans, Morrow, and Aminu since they are perimeter players? Their ability to defend the rim means nearly nothing since they are never given that task.

[BallSoHard]

I think you had something going with this, but this is something we can't agree on. I agree injuries are not the sole reason to blame here and Monty has some fault. I don't think anyone with the injuries we had would be competing for an 8 seed. I just can't agree with that. Better record, for sure but not the 8 spot.

Disagree as we may, we are not losing this season solely because of injuries. You can overcome the loss of Jrue and Ryno, and we have been down AD (the only real person we can't afford to lose) for less than 10 games.

Alright I said that, but we were supposed to be battling for an 8 seed completely healthy. No way should we be a lock with what we've gone through. Just the Ryno injury is enough to push a team on the cusp off of it IMO.