Gameday Thread: Pacers at Mosquitoes

[luckyman]

Great game. Lopez just boosted his trade value. Let's make a move for Bledsoe!

Lopez is 24 and frankly giving you what you need from a center (outside of foul trouble). Why would you trade that away?

[PelsFan2313]

Again, stop assuming you know how I feel about Lopez. I already said time and time again on this board that unless it's a clear upgrade at the position, there is no reason to get rid of him. A lot of people and I'm not saying it's you want to get rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him. The problem lies in that thought.

I haven't really seen that too much on this board.

But if that's your criticizing, it makes sense.

Fair enough.

[Miss_318]

If this is the case clearly Monty isn't coaching to win.

And honestly after what West did him I would rather had him guard Hibbert.

It wouldn't have mattered either way IMO. He's not strong enough to guard Hibbert down low yet and D. West is a vet. I'd rather him take is lumps from someone more offensively skilled like West or Duncan and the likes to learn from those mistakes. It'll make him a better defender in the long run.

[da ThRONe]

I dont think anyone expected the top player to miss another 2 months, and the team would have to depend so much on Vasquez with the ball.

Those two things were worst possible scenarios early in the season.

Speak for yourself here. LOL Giving Gordon's history this is pretty much what I expected from him and was the reason I hoped we traded him.

[Eman5805]

No, a consistently great player, of any kind, makes all the difference.

That's the ticket. It isn't about necessarily someone that can pass you the ball in the right spots. It's feeding off of the abilities of another player of great skill. It makes the load so much easier to bear when you aren't doing it alone or just aren't physically or mentally up to it quite yet. Davis has the abilities, he has the skills. He has all the room in the world to grow. But at this critical juncture he needs to be guided in the ways of the Force. Can't just jump in and mosh.

Whatever impact Gordon makes will be quite interesting to watch unfold.

[luckyman]

I wouldn't say he wasn't coaching to win. He's trying to develop and trying to win at the same time. It's a hard balance.

West does that to the best forwards in the NBA. Even scored 40+ on the Garnett lead Celtics here.

That said if you take away that 17 footer he can be frustrated and even shut down. Should have doubled him in that high post and take your chances.

[FlyGirl]

I dont think anyone expected the top player to miss another 2 months, and the team would have to depend so much on Vasquez with the ball.

Those two things were worst possible scenarios early in the season.

Not at the beginning of the season anyways. We pretty much figured he'd be missing SOME time but after the offseason and trying out and practicing with Team USA, we thought he'd at least begin the season playing games and would probably miss some games at some point in the season. Not at the beginning though.

[luckyman]

Speak for yourself here. LOL Giving Gordon's history this is pretty much what I expected from him and was the reason I hoped we traded him.

You can expect him to miss a few weeks here and there, but nobody, including you, saw this 2 month stint coming right off a summer break.

If you did than I guess you are truly gifted.

[da ThRONe]

I wouldn't say he wasn't coaching to win. He's trying to develop and trying to win at the same time. It's a hard balance.

It wouldn't have mattered either way IMO. He's not strong enough to guard Hibbert down low yet and D. West is a vet. I'd rather him take is lumps from someone more offensively skilled like West or Duncan and the likes to learn from those mistakes. It'll make him a better defender in the long run.

Giving where we are you guys are probably right and it's better to throw Davis to wolves now. There's really nothing more to play for. It was just painful to watch. I've been very critical of Davis' post defense pre-draft and it's sticking out like a sore thumb.

[Snarly]

West does that to the best forwards in the NBA. Even scored 40+ on the Garnett lead Celtics here.

That said if you take away that 17 footer he can be frustrated and even shut down. Should have doubled him in that high post and take your chances.

Normally Williams would quick go to the double, but tonight, it seems like he wanted Davis to see what it's like to go against a multi-dimensonal offensive player. Davis played relatively good defense on West but West can catch fire if you let him get going. The lesson here for Davis is not to let great offensive players get going.

[da ThRONe]

You can expect him to miss a few weeks here and there, but nobody, including you, saw this 2 month stint coming right off a summer break.

If you did than I guess you are truly gifted.

Yeah that's true. But his injury history is why I projected another bottom 5 finish.

[Pelicans_fan_504]

priority #1 is to get a pg, I can't watch Vasquez anymore. How can we have a pg who can't dribble, looks to post up more then our bigs, and plus he can't guard the other team pg. I'm so done with Vasquez I would take 04 Dan Dickau running the point over him. When EG comes back we need to have Rivers start at point and have Vasquez come off the bench were he belongs. End rant

[PelsFan2313]

Does anybody here like Stephen Howard?

He doesn't really say anything particularly insightful imo. And hes really robotic.

Is it just me?

[Bee-Fense]

Your thinking is way too short-sighted.

Sure, we may lack the big enforcer for a short period of time if we trade Lopez away. But choosing not to capitalize on his high value to bolster our backcourt if the opportunity presents itself is foolish. His production can easily be replaced via FA or the draft. This isn't a knock on him, but its the truth.

You scoffed at the concept of trading him. I'm saying its not a bad idea, despite his great games lumped between his solid performances.

I completely disagree. Go find me a 7 foot center that can give you 2 blocks a game, defend the post, and score with good efficiency at a decent clip. He's 24, and he's on an amazing (I cannot stress that enough, compare what Lopez makes to other centers and then add in all the flexibility we have) contract in his prime. He could be playing at this level (or an even better one) for us for the next 6 years.

We have other ways to get talent besides trading Lopez. There's the draft and free agency, and we will have great opportunity in both. No need to give up quality assets when not necessary.

[PelsFan2313]

Monty just said that there were some players on the top of the key who should have come over and doubled; it was a lack of execution, it seems.

[luckyman]

Normally Williams would quick go to the double, but tonight, it seems like he wanted Davis to see what it's like to go against a multi-dimensonal offensive player. Davis played relatively good defense on West but West can catch fire if you let him get going. The lesson here for Davis is not to let great offensive players get going.

Welp. Monty just said they were supposed to double from the top just like I thought, but they did not. I'd have to go back and see who didn't go double like they were supposed to. I'd wager it was Rivers and Vasquez that didn't do their assignment.

[Eman5805]

Giving where we are you guys are probably right and it's better to throw Davis to wolves now. There's really nothing more to play for. It was just painful to watch. I've been very critical of Davis' post defense pre-draft and it's sticking out like a sore thumb.

Even though he was outmatched in terms of strength and weight, it wasn't like he wasn't contesting.

There's only 5 people on the court per team. If they want to go at you, you can't hide. He won't get more capable of guarding guys like West or Z-Bo by not guarding them.

[PelsFan2313]

I completely disagree. Go find me a 7 foot center that can give you 2 blocks a game, defend the post, and score with good efficiency at a decent clip. He's 24, and he's on an amazing (I cannot stress that enough, compare what Lopez makes to other centers and then add in all the flexibility we have) contract in his prime. He could be playing at this level (or an even better one) for us for the next 6 years.

We have other ways to get talent besides trading Lopez. There's the draft and free agency, and we will have great opportunity in both. No need to give up quality assets when not necessary.

Perhaps, I should have taken the "easily" out. This was on MM's missing piece thread. Basically mirrors my line of thinking.

Hickson was in my Missing Piece article two weeks ago, and I agree. This is why i am so willing to move Lopez for a guard, because there are a ton of big man options in FA and this draft. Hickson, Mosgov, Pek, Jefferson all FA's. Tons of guys you can get high in the draft or even pick up a late 1st and grab a guy like Jeff Withey from Kansas.

A lot of options to replace Lopez if we move him for a PG or SF

Over time, I expect Davis to receive more and more minutes at the 5.

Know that I'm not saying Lopez isn't a good player on a good contract. Just that, if the right deal reveals himself, I think we should pounce on it and not look back.

[luckyman]

Giving where we are you guys are probably right and it's better to throw Davis to wolves now. There's really nothing more to play for. It was just painful to watch. I've been very critical of Davis' post defense pre-draft and it's sticking out like a sore thumb.

Actually Davis' post defense on West was good (or decent). Even got a block. From 17 out though, West is damn near unstoppable and no forward can really handle him from out there. They were supposed to double him but our guards are knuckleheads...apparently.

[glepurple]

Monty just said that there were some players on the top of the key who should have come over and doubled; it was a lack of execution, it seems.

yeah i just saw that...i remember lance thomas looked like he wanted to double on a possession but only did a soft swipe at the ball. I guess they will get better over time.

[Eman5805]

Actually Davis' post defense on West was good. Even got a block. From 17 out though, West is damn near unstoppable and no forward can really handle him from out there. They were supposed to double him but our guards are knuckleheads...apparently.

The double team in the high post is tricky. Because the person being doubled has virtually the whole court to turn to try and protect the ball. In the low post you can use the baseline as a third defender.

You ahve to time it right. And you try not to do it before the player with the ball has even made a move it looks like.

[luckyman]

Stephen Howard's cyborg software is glitchy. He needs a 2.1 update quick. A month? The guy isn't coming off reconstructive surgery you cyborg.

[da ThRONe]

Even though he was outmatched in terms of strength and weight, it wasn't like he wasn't contesting.

There's only 5 people on the court per team. If they want to go at you, you can't hide. He won't get more capable of guarding guys like West or Z-Bo by not guarding them.

Yeah I was agreeing. Today was a lesson for Davis. He's a high IQ player hopefully he's taking mental notes and these type of matchups will pay off in the future.

[luckyman]

The double team in the high post is tricky. Because the person being doubled has virtually the whole court to turn to try and protect the ball. In the low post you can use the baseline as a third defender.

You ahve to time it right. And you try not to do it before the player with the ball has even made a move it looks like.

According to Monty, that was their plan, so they must have practiced the scenarios. They just didn't execute and there is no leader on the floor to make them execute.

Really need J Smoove back as well.

[The JNR]

According to Monty, that was their plan, so they must have practiced the scenarios. They just didn't execute and there is no leader on the floor to make them execute.

Really need J Smoove back as well.

This is one of the truest things I've seen tonight. We need a leader.