The Hornets offseason additions and PER

[Spaniard]

I just find it amazing when you look at what we've done this offseason and thought I would share. I know not everyone loves the mythical PER stat, but I do find that it tends to bring the cream to the top.

Anthony Davis(though in very limited time) is 4th in the entire league in PER. Ryan Anderson is 27th in the entire league. Robin Lopez is 43rd.

That means that we added to this team 3 players that are currently in the top 50 in the entire league in PER. That's quite an offseason alone.

Anthony Davis is 2nd amongst all PF's behind only Tim Duncan. Ryan Anderson is 7th. Jason Smith is 28th. In a league of 30 teams, the Hornets have 3 of the top 30 PF's.

Robin Lopez is currently 12th amongst all centers in the league. Not bad for a 24 year old no one wanted.

Anthony Davis is #1 amongst all rookies, and Brian Roberts is #4. Again, with only 30 teams, only 30 rookies have played enough minutes to qualify. The Hornets have played 4 rookies enough minutes of the 30 including Rivers and Miller.

I hate seeing Davis and Gordon on the bench, and I hate where our record is. But the Hornets have done some special things this offseason.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I agree-fantastic offseason and this is why I will never buy the argument "We had to resign Gordon because nobody else wants to come here, we couldn't have used that money, etc etc."

We got Lopez and Anderson for the same money we pay Gordon. Take Gordon's contract off the books and split it up between two other young vets and this team is looking great.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I love the early stats, but I still maintain that the regular season doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things and that the cream rises in the playoffs and guys are exposed. Based on that, I expect Davis and Anderson to stay at a similar level when we get to that position, while Lopez will take a step back but still be a better than average 3rd or 4th big who can really help in specific matchups.

Love this offseason, save for one part of it.

[Spaniard]

Well, I know your stance on Gordon. And that's fine. I'm still of the opinion that he's out of sight, out of mind. An once on the court, everyone will instantly remember just how good he is. Though I do think he's weak minded, I don't think he's broken.

The biggest and most glaing hole on this roster right now is SG. And the last time Eric Gordon was on the court for most of a season, he was 6th amongst all SG's in PER. He is EXACTLY what this team needs on the court.

Gordon, Anderson, Davis and Lopez are capable of giving us four guys that are in the top half of the league at their positions. That's not too shabby.

[BP225]

I agree-fantastic offseason and this is why I will never buy the argument "We had to resign Gordon because nobody else wants to come here, we couldn't have used that money, etc etc."

That's not the argument. The argument is one you've made many, many, times, it's your stars that matter, the other guys are easy to get. Gordon's salary slot needs to be used on a star, not more role players. What would Demps have done with that money this offseason? Dragic? OJ Mayo? Neither of those players are star level. Let's say he sat on the cap space until next offseason, what are the odds that he would sign say both Brandon Jennings and Iggy? You may get one but both? And the way Jennings has been playing CP3 might be a more realistic target. Now compare the odds of securing a 2nd star with Gordon's salary slot with the odds of Gordon staying healthy with the medical information Demps has.

As much faith as you put in Demps ability to make decisions with cap space and trade assets, you are showing no faith in his decision to use that magical cap space on Gordon. You generally respect his decision making ability, he has more information than you do, and he appears to have come to a different conclusion than you have regarding Gordon. I'm not saying Demps is infallible, I'm just saying you're trying to have it both ways saying Demps is too good to not have the ability to make decisions, but you don't want him to make a decision he's already decided was his best option. Maybe you and Demps have different philosophies on whether staying healthy is a skill and he's just being naive from your point of view, or maybe Demps knows the limits of what Gordon's cap space can get him and thinks that Gordon's a better gamble than chasing another max player.

[MichaelMcNamara]

That's not the argument. The argument is one you've made many, many, times, it's your stars that matter, the other guys are easy to get. Gordon's salary slot needs to be used on a star, not more role players. What would Demps have done with that money this offseason? Dragic? OJ Mayo? Neither of those players are star level. Let's say he sat on the cap space until next offseason, what are the odds that he would sign say both Brandon Jennings and Iggy? You may get one but both? And the way Jennings has been playing CP3 might be a more realistic target. Now compare the odds of securing a 2nd star with Gordon's salary slot with the odds of Gordon staying healthy with the medical information Demps has.

As much faith as you put in Demps ability to make decisions with cap space and trade assets, you are showing no faith in his decision to use that magical cap space on Gordon. You generally respect his decision making ability, he has more information than you do, and he appears to have come to a different conclusion than you have regarding Gordon. I'm not saying Demps is infallible, I'm just saying you're trying to have it both ways saying Demps is too good to not have the ability to make decisions, but you don't want him to make a decision he's already decided was his best option. Maybe you and Demps have different philosophies on whether staying healthy is a skill and he's just being naive from your point of view, or maybe Demps knows the limits of what Gordon's cap space can get him and thinks that Gordon's a better gamble than chasing another max player.

Personally, I think Demps made a mistake that many first time GM's make and I would bet he never makes it again. He saw Gordon as the key piece he got back in the CP3 trade and couldn't let him go because then that CP3 would have netted little to nothing. He is not alone. Philly will likely make the same mistake with Bynum. But you have to divorce every decision from the past and I would bet that he has learned this. Only time would tell.

And yes, following the Lopez and Dudley model, you get an OJ Mayo, would have gotten Dudley in the sign and trade and Kendall Marshall and a future 1st. This team, with Mayo and Dudley getting Mason and Henry's minutes, plus the reduction of Rivers would be very good and would have a collection of quality assets to move for a star if it was deemed that one could be gotten. One who actually had a history of being on the court.

And you might not have made that argument, but tons of people had- that cap space means nothing because FA's dont want to come here.

Anyway, I still dont fault those on board with the EG decision- just don't try to sell me that we couldn't have used 13 mil for quality players, when we took 13 mil in cap space and got Lopez and Anderson. That is all I am saying

[nolaslim213]

MM - I think the way you are suggesting we build our team would only make us the next Denver Nuggets, and nobody wants to be them because they don't have a guy that they can point to and say, "hey, you, go win us this game." A bunch of top-tier role players, but no "superstar" leader. As much as I hate it, the NBA has become a league where you need at least 1 (preferably 2-3) superstar(s) to win anything significant.

[goat gorilla]

“There is no discovery without risk and what you risk reveals what you value.”

Demps values the opportunity to have a star, potential top 10 player. He apparently feels the risk is worth the reward. I tend to agree.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Davis is the star, Ryno a great #2 option and a bunch of assets for when another guy comes available in my scenario

I think it is more likely that Mayo plus multiple 1st rounders plus Vasquez, Dudley, Marshall, Lopez, etc can be packaged for a star than Gordon becomes a star

[UptownFuz504]

Davis is the star, Ryno a great #2 option and a bunch of assets for when another guy comes available in my scenario

I think it is more likely that Mayo plus multiple 1st rounders plus Vasquez, Dudley, Marshall, Lopez, etc can be packaged for a star than Gordon becomes a star

I think that you overvalue Ryno. I think that he is a valuable piece to our future, but rebuilding our franchise with him as your second best option is a stretch. Resigning EG was a must in my opinion because he is a goto guy and possible allstar. Like someone said previously, you can't rebuild with all role players. You need a stud player. We had one and we had leverage to keep him.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I think that you overvalue Ryno. I think that he is a valuable piece to our future, but rebuilding our franchise with him as your second best option is a stretch. Resigning EG was a must in my opinion because he is a goto guy and possible allstar. Like someone said previously, you can't rebuild with all role players. You need a stud player. We had one and we had leverage to keep him.

To each his own. You take the guy with the 21 PER who never plays and I will take the one with the 20 PER who shows up every night and we will see who wins.

I guess the main difference in our philosophies is that you think ther is a chance that Gordon could be an elite, franchise player. I see almost no chance of that happening. Staying healthy is a skill just like any other- one Gordon doesn't have and Bill Walton was the only player in NBA history that lacked that trait and rewarded his team with a title.

Nobody is wrong here. Some are just risk takers, while others like me play the numbers. Poker is the same way and there are plenty of successful players on both sides. If I were a GM, you wouldn't get me to touch a Gordon or a Bynum with a ten foot pole. To each their own

[UptownFuz504]

To each his own. You take the guy with the 21 PER who never plays and I will take the one with the 20 PER who shows up every night and we will see who wins.

I guess the main difference in our philosophies is that you think ther is a chance that Gordon could be an elite, franchise player. I see almost no chance of that happening. Staying healthy is a skill just like any other- one Gordon doesn't have and Bill Walton was the only player in NBA history that lacked that trait and rewarded his team with a title.

Nobody is wrong here. Some are just risk takers, while others like me play the numbers. Poker is the same way and there are plenty of successful players on both sides. If I were a GM, you wouldn't get me to touch a Gordon or a Bynum with a ten foot pole. To each their own

I understand and appreciate your opinion but a very successful business person once told me that you have to be willing to lose money to make money. I feel that was the situation at hand with Gordon. No risk no reward.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I understand and appreciate your opinion but a very successful business person once told me that you have to be willing to lose money to make money. I feel that was the situation at hand with Gordon. No risk no reward.

Ask that very successful business person how they feel about no risk, high reward.

His name is Ryan Anderson

[Teal Lantern]

I hate seeing Davis and Gordon on the bench, and I hate where our record is. But the Hornets have done some special things this offseason.

It's difficult as a fan to see 5-11 because it feels like same-old, same-old. I keep holding on to the feeling I got watching the NO-SA game on Halloween. There were a few stretches that showed what the ingredients might become when seasoned and cooked: intimidating defense, high energy, slashing drives into the lane.

[P Raff]

Ask that very successful business person how they feel about no risk, high reward.

His name is Ryan Anderson

I personally think both deals were the right decision, although I tend to agree with MM that RYNO is the better second option for me at this point. And I am still a Godron fan. Anderson was the steal of the century, and, IMO, a very good second option. I have lofty standards, but I see a slightly worse version of Dirk in the future. Think about that. And if Gordon does somehow return and then stay healthy, we have a win-win, and we are a piece or two away from a serious title contender.

[sfernald]

Austin Rivers - 5.6 PER in 27 minutes per game.

[UptownFuz504]

I personally think both deals were the right decision, although I tend to agree with MM that RYNO is the better second option for me at this point. And I am still a Godron fan. Anderson was the steal of the century, and, IMO, a very good second option. I have lofty standards, but I see a slightly worse version of Dirk in the future. Think about that. And if Gordon does somehow return and then stay healthy, we have a win-win, and we are a piece or two away from a serious title contender.

It would be a win-win if Gordon comes back healthy. That wouldn't be the case though if you don't pull the trigger on the deal. I don't totally disagree with MM. Ryno is a great player for us but let's not be a prisoner of the moment. He's playing great ball right now but it's not translating into wins. We need a transcendent player that can put the team on his shoulders and take over. That's not ryno. I like that dell locked up both.

[Spaniard]

Just thought I would bring this back up to take a look at just how well the whole team is playing right now:

PER ranking by position(30 teams):

PG- Greivas Vasquez- 22nd, Brian Roberts- 36th
SG- Eric Gordon- 6th, Roger Mason- 49th
SF- Aminu- 30th, Xavier Henry- 55th(amongst SG's)
PF- Anthony Davis- 4th, Ryan Anderson- 10th, Jason Smith- 30th
C- Robin Lopez- 11th

Based on the age of this team, I find this to be highly impressive. Hornets have three of the top 42 in the league in Davis(24), Lopez(28), and Anderson(42). Not a bad "start" to the rebuild.

[Bee-Fense]

Wow, surprised to see Gordon ranked so highly despite him clearly not even being close to being 100% back in a lot of these games.

But yeah, we have the potential to have 4 guys with PER's of 20 or higher that are getting consistent minutes for us. That's really, really impressive, especially since one of them is a rookie. I'm honestly expecting Davis to have a PER of around 26-28 in his prime.