Pels trying to trade for Beal

[soggymoss]

This is a short sighted move to me. Not horrible but trading a guy that most likely leaves after this year, no thanks. If it was a rental for a bigger/younger name with a chance to bring him back then maybe (like butler or George). Too many teams are gonna have a lot of money this year and we’re gonna have to overpay to get anyone to come or stay. I’d rather trade a little more for a guy on a longer contract Plus I’m trying to keep Davis. I want players that can fit any system just in case Davis does ask to leave because if he does leave I’d clean house and start over with Jrue and who we trade for.

Question, if we keep Randle and trade Davis or not this summer, how much do you think Randle will ask to get paid? You can ask the same of Mirotic. If Davis leaves, randles gonna want major money and even if Davis stays he’s gonna want more than we can give.

I think the key with keeping Randle will be:

1) Concince him to take another 1 year deal so we have his bird rights to pay him the following season

2) Keep AD

Keeping AD is the main reason he would stay, and if he takes another 1 year for around 10 mil that we can offer, with a second player option, then he could opt out and we pay him the 15-20 he would get on the open market (that's around his worth IMO, same for Niko)

[6warddude]

To be fair, when both Randle and Mirotic were available and injury free Davis didn't guard the bruising C's.

i agree which was why i said trading for a center who gentry may not play and leaving us short of bigs with AD,,niko and okafor.....by those trades posters are talking about with Washington,,AD will have to guard bruising centers....

[tdcreator]

i agree which was why i said trading for a center who gentry may not play and leaving us short of bigs with AD,,niko and okafor.....by those trades posters are talking about with Washington,,AD will have to guard bruising centers....

Okafor and Niko/Randle will still guard bigs unless they go really small like they have been lately.

[6warddude]

Okafor and Niko/Randle will still guard bigs unless they go really small like they have been lately.

they talking about trading randall...thats why i didnt add his name...

[Silver Nail]

I think the key with keeping Randle will be:

1) Concince him to take another 1 year deal so we have his bird rights to pay him the following season

2) Keep AD

Keeping AD is the main reason he would stay, and if he takes another 1 year for around 10 mil that we can offer, with a second player option, then he could opt out and we pay him the 15-20 he would get on the open market (that's around his worth IMO, same for Niko)

I have to ask my friend, if you think Randall and Nico are worth 15-20 mil each, why are you not positioning yourself to make sure you won't be able to retain them? I would think your trade Randall plan would make more sense than not having the ability to compete financially.

[soggymoss]

I have to ask my friend, if you think Randall and Nico are worth 15-20 mil each, why are you not positioning yourself to make sure you won't be able to retain them? I would think your trade Randall plan would make more sense than not having the ability to compete financially.

There is no possible scenario where we could open up the cap space to pay Randall 15-20 unless we completely gut the team and renounce all bird rights

[Silver Nail]

There is no possible scenario where we could open up the cap space to pay Randall 15-20 unless we completely gut the team and renounce all bird rights

Okay, then I guess my trade idea is wrong, because that is the primary focus of what I wanted to accomplish. Are you certain there is no way?

[soggymoss]

Okay, then I guess my trade idea is wrong, because that is the primary focus of what I wanted to accomplish. Are you certain there is no way?

Well it's possible, we would have to make some moves though..

1) Dump Moore and Hill without taking back any salary for next season. (That would be hard to do)

2) Renounce all rights to everyone except Niko (19 mil) and Payton (4 mil)

That would put us at 87 million on the cap sheet counting the incomplete roster charge.. We would have about 21 million in cap space then, but we would essentially be gutting the team down to 4 players and only have 21 million to fill it out, which would leave us even less depth than we have now (if that's even possible lol)

[Silver Nail]

Well it's possible, we would have to make some moves though..

1) Dump Moore and Hill without taking back any salary for next season. (That would be hard to do)

2) Renounce all rights to everyone except Niko (19 mil) and Payton (4 mil)

That would put us at 87 million on the cap sheet counting the incomplete roster charge.. We would have about 21 million in cap space then, but we would essentially be gutting the team down to 4 players and only have 21 million to fill it out, which would leave us even less depth than we have now (if that's even possible lol)

What I'm asking is my plan doable?, or am I wrong with how this works. Here it is below. I know you don't like, but am I right or wrong with how this cap hold stuff works and would this satisfy that requirement?




The first step should be to get rid of Hills contract. While also, trying to get AD some immediate help which may or not entice him to sign supermax. Offer our first and second round picks along with Hill, Wes, and Diallo, combined 20 mil, to the Bulls to acquire Kris Dunn, 4.2 mil, (or any of their other 3 PGs, Arcidiacono, 1.4 mil, Payne, 3.3 mil, or Harrison, 1.4 mil, all are RFAs going forward), Lopez, 14.2mil, and Holiday 4.2 mil, both expiring, but we would have their bird rights, so we can keep if we want. Both for less than 9 mil in all likelihood, Robin’s bro makes 3.4 mil now with Bucks. This frees up between 6 and 8 mil we can use to sign Nico and JR. If we get healthy and turn it around AD may sign. If not, we ship off to Boston with his 27mil salary for:

A- Rozier, 3 mil now, RFA estimate 5 mil
Smart, 12.5 mil
Brown, 6.5 mil
Williams, 2 mil
3 first round picks, no less than 2

or

B- Rozier, 3 mil now, RFA estimate 5 mil
Tatum, 7.8 mil
Brown, 6.5 mil
Williams, 2 mil
1 first round pick, or a couple second round picks

Assuming Boston goes with (A) because Tatum is off the table that makes us look like this:
1s Rozier, Payton, Smart
2s Jackson
1-2s Jrue
2-3s Justin, Moore, Miller, Brown
3s K Williams
4s Nico
4-5s JR, R Williams
5s Lopez, Okafor
Plus a min. of 3 firsts to play with next year.
Note: guard from BULLS would take roster spot from either K Will or Miiller

[Taker597]

Man... Still can't believe Brook Lopez is playing on a 1 yr/ 3 million Deal. As much as I love Randle and how overloaded were are at 4s. I still feel we need a legit 5.

Hill eating up that salary really burns.

[soggymoss]

What I'm asking is my plan doable?, or am I wrong with how this works. Here it is below. I know you don't like, but am I right or wrong with how this cap hold stuff works and would this satisfy that requirement?




The first step should be to get rid of Hills contract. While also, trying to get AD some immediate help which may or not entice him to sign supermax. Offer our first and second round picks along with Hill, Wes, and Diallo, combined 20 mil, to the Bulls to acquire Kris Dunn, 4.2 mil, (or any of their other 3 PGs, Arcidiacono, 1.4 mil, Payne, 3.3 mil, or Harrison, 1.4 mil, all are RFAs going forward), Lopez, 14.2mil, and Holiday 4.2 mil, both expiring, but we would have their bird rights, so we can keep if we want. Both for less than 9 mil in all likelihood, Robin’s bro makes 3.4 mil now with Bucks. This frees up between 6 and 8 mil we can use to sign Nico and JR. If we get healthy and turn it around AD may sign. If not, we ship off to Boston with his 27mil salary for:

A- Rozier, 3 mil now, RFA estimate 5 mil
Smart, 12.5 mil
Brown, 6.5 mil
Williams, 2 mil
3 first round picks, no less than 2

or

B- Rozier, 3 mil now, RFA estimate 5 mil
Tatum, 7.8 mil
Brown, 6.5 mil
Williams, 2 mil
1 first round pick, or a couple second round picks

Assuming Boston goes with (A) because Tatum is off the table that makes us look like this:
1s Rozier, Payton, Smart
2s Jackson
1-2s Jrue
2-3s Justin, Moore, Miller, Brown
3s K Williams
4s Nico
4-5s JR, R Williams
5s Lopez, Okafor
Plus a min. of 3 firsts to play with next year.
Note: guard from BULLS would take roster spot from either K Will or Miiller

Simply put, its doable, but you have to hope Randle re-signs for the 10 million (which is what we need to happen anyway)

With your scenario we go into next season with:
AD 27 mil
Jrue 27 mil
Moore 9 mil
Dunn 5 mil
Okafor 1.5 mil
Frank 1.5 mil

So 71 million in contracts

Cap holds:
Lopez 21 mil
Niko 20 mil
Holiday 5 mil
Renounce everyone else and still have incomplete charge of 5 million, so 51 mil cap holds

So we would enter into next season with 122 million in money on the books, not including Randle and Payton, so we would be entering the Luxury Tax, or we are just giving up a 1st rounder just for a half year rental of Robin Lopez and Justin holiday

[Silver Nail]

Simply put, its doable, but you have to hope Randle re-signs for the 10 million (which is what we need to happen anyway)

With your scenario we go into next season with:
AD 27 mil
Jrue 27 mil
Moore 9 mil
Dunn 5 mil
Okafor 1.5 mil
Frank 1.5 mil

So 71 million in contracts

Cap holds:
Lopez 21 mil
Niko 20 mil
Holiday 5 mil
Renounce everyone else and still have incomplete charge of 5 million, so 51 mil cap holds

So we would enter into next season with 122 million in money on the books, not including Randle and Payton, so we would be entering the Luxury Tax, or we are just giving up a 1st rounder just for a half year rental of Robin Lopez and Justin holiday

Now we are on the same page. You think we are renting Lopez and Justin, maybe, maybe not. The first is to unload Hill and get Dunn or other pg. The rest would be gravy. Renounce the rentals if necessary. The objective being Randle at 15 mil so we can keep for 2nd yr EBR. Also think Nico at 15-17 is probable. Remember, if AD leaves anyway picks will be here in bunches.

[soggymoss]

Now we are on the same page. You think we are renting Lopez and Justin, maybe, maybe not. The first is to unload Hill and get Dunn or other pg. The rest would be gravy. Renounce the rentals if necessary. The objective being Randle at 15 mil so we can keep for 2nd yr EBR. Also think Nico at 15-17 is probable. Remember, if AD leaves anyway picks will be here in bunches.

Even if we would renounce Holiday and Lopez, we would still have 98 million on the books, so we still wouldnt have enough to offer 15+ to Randle as the projected cap is 109 million, so we are still as shallow as ever, and we lose any depth we had before.

[N.O.Bronco]

I don't disagree that Beal would be nice to have, but not at the cost of Randall, picks, and salary. Now if we could get him for our 1st and second this year with this group. I'M IN!!!!

Attachment 6374

Randle is very unlikely to come back. Or Niko is not coming back. Very likely Payton may not either. That is the reality unfortunately and speaks to the vicious cycle Demps has got this team into. The only way they all stayed is if we turned into a perennial championship squad with this core and went deep into the tax to keep everyone, or injuries continue to plague these players and their market value plummets.

Someone is not going to be here next season between Niko and Randle, the question is do you acknowledge the hard truth and try and make a move that creates more long-term roster stability and maybe returns a slight profit, or do you pull another Demps with Ryan Anderson and refuse to trade him for anything less than a kings ransom for two seasons and get nothing for him? As is our first rounders, Randle, Moore and Niko are our only desirable assets that we can hypothetically use to swing for a longer-term, superstar level player that could convince AD to stay. If you are unwilling to move Randle or Niko you better be ok with letting AD walk. Because as is that is basically the hard choice. That or hope this team magically turns into a contender with an imbalanced roster where 3 of your 4 best players all play roughly the same position.

We are already cap strapped with our contracts, especially since we are theoretically making these moves to keep AD.

That was always the catch-22 with Randle. You get him cheap and if he proves to be the bargain you thought, he excels in his role and lines himself up for a major payday and the Pelicans are not well positioned to match or chase that game.

To me, if you are trying to keep AD, the only chance you have is to find a way to get another superstar level player that AD buys into. So that way you go into the Summer saying, look, we have Jrue, we have Beal, we can likely keep Niko, with you anchoring that team and some role players we can beat anyone on a given night. It's not a homerun pitch, but it is also one where if AD says no, you can move everyone to likely stock pile draft picks and go into the rebuild better than you were when you lost CP3.

[soggymoss]

Randle is very unlikely to come back. Or Niko is not coming back. Very likely Payton may not either. That is the reality unfortunately and speaks to the vicious cycle Demps has got this team into. The only way they all stayed is if we turned into a perennial championship squad with this core and went deep into the tax to keep everyone, or injuries continue to plague these players and their market value plummets.

Someone is not going to be here next season between Niko and Randle, the question is do you acknowledge the hard truth and try and make a move that creates more long-term roster stability and maybe returns a slight profit, or do you pull another Demps with Ryan Anderson and refuse to trade him for anything less than a kings ransom for two seasons and get nothing for him? As is our first rounders, Randle, Moore and Niko are our only desirable assets that we can hypothetically use to swing for a longer-term, superstar level player that could convince AD to stay. If you are unwilling to move Randle or Niko you better be ok with letting AD walk. Because as is that is basically the hard choice. That or hope this team magically turns into a contender with an imbalanced roster where 3 of your 4 best players all play roughly the same position.

We are already cap strapped with our contracts, especially since we are theoretically making these moves to keep AD.

That was always the catch-22 with Randle. You get him cheap and if he proves to be the bargain you thought, he excels in his role and lines himself up for a major payday and the Pelicans are not well positioned to match or chase that game.

To me, if you are trying to keep AD, the only chance you have is to find a way to get another superstar level player that AD buys into. So that way you go into the Summer saying, look, we have Jrue, we have Beal, we can likely keep Niko, with you anchoring that team and some role players we can beat anyone on a given night. It's not a homerun pitch, but it is also one where if AD says no, you can move everyone to likely stock pile draft picks and go into the rebuild better than you were when you lost CP3.

Personally I think if we trade Niko, Randle comes back next year, and vice versa... Randle was only on the market for a couple hours, so I know he didnt get offers from teams with cap space, he had his sights set here and here only with AD recruiting him.. He also had to know that we would still be cap strapped next season and the best deal we can offer him is 10 mil, but we get his early bird rights and then could give him a full 20 mil the following season..

Payton will be back next season, even if it's for more than 4 million, we will have the MLE we can use to sign him, and like Randle after next season we would have his early bird rights...

If we can swing a trade for Beal, we could easily build around AD,Jrue,Randle,Beal,Elfrid

[tdcreator]

Randle is very unlikely to come back. Or Niko is not coming back. Very likely Payton may not either. That is the reality unfortunately and speaks to the vicious cycle Demps has got this team into. The only way they all stayed is if we turned into a perennial championship squad with this core and went deep into the tax to keep everyone, or injuries continue to plague these players and their market value plummets.

Someone is not going to be here next season between Niko and Randle, the question is do you acknowledge the hard truth and try and make a move that creates more long-term roster stability and maybe returns a slight profit, or do you pull another Demps with Ryan Anderson and refuse to trade him for anything less than a kings ransom for two seasons and get nothing for him? As is our first rounders, Randle, Moore and Niko are our only desirable assets that we can hypothetically use to swing for a longer-term, superstar level player that could convince AD to stay. If you are unwilling to move Randle or Niko you better be ok with letting AD walk. Because as is that is basically the hard choice. That or hope this team magically turns into a contender with an imbalanced roster where 3 of your 4 best players all play roughly the same position.

We are already cap strapped with our contracts, especially since we are theoretically making these moves to keep AD.

That was always the catch-22 with Randle. You get him cheap and if he proves to be the bargain you thought, he excels in his role and lines himself up for a major payday and the Pelicans are not well positioned to match or chase that game.

To me, if you are trying to keep AD, the only chance you have is to find a way to get another superstar level player that AD buys into. So that way you go into the Summer saying, look, we have Jrue, we have Beal, we can likely keep Niko, with you anchoring that team and some role players we can beat anyone on a given night. It's not a homerun pitch, but it is also one where if AD says no, you can move everyone to likely stock pile draft picks and go into the rebuild better than you were when you lost CP3.

I agree completely. If Washington ask for Randle in a Beal deal do you say no? I sure wouldn’t.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Beal, Mahinmi and Sato for Randle, Moore, Solo, Johnson and 2 firsts.

Beal is worth 2 first just like Jrue and DMC were/are.
Taking on Mahinmi sucks but its only one year left.
I can't see re-signing Randle and I think Okafor gives you 70% of what Randle does.
Niko fits better with AD and they have his rights.
This only happens if AD agrees and hasn't said he is definitely leaving.

Payton/Satoransky/Frazier
Holiday/Jackson/Clark
Beal/Miller/Williams
Mirotic/Diallo
Davis/Okafor/Mahinmi

Add some other players from the buyout or 10 day contract's.

[Silver Nail]

Well, if the consensus is Beal or bust, AD is gone because I don't see ML blessing that move. Hope I'm wrong.

[Silver Nail]

Beal, Mahinmi and Sato for Randle, Moore, Solo, Johnson and 2 firsts.

Beal is worth 2 first just like Jrue and DMC were/are.
Taking on Mahinmi sucks but its only one year left.
I can't see re-signing Randle and I think Okafor gives you 70% of what Randle does.
Niko fits better with AD and they have his rights.
This only happens if AD agrees and hasn't said he is definitely leaving.

Payton/Satoransky/Frazier
Holiday/Jackson/Clark
Beal/Miller/Williams
Mirotic/Diallo
Davis/Okafor/Mahinmi

Add some other players from the buyout or 10 day contract's.

Doubt AD agrees

[Mythrol]

No way can you take back all that crap from Washington, give up Moore and Randle, AND give two firsts.

AD would 100% have to agree to resigning before I did something like this.

[HoustonPelicans]

No way can you take back all that crap from Washington, give up Moore and Randle, AND give two firsts.

AD would 100% have to agree to resigning before I did something like this.

Exactly we may be close to desperation. But we shouldn't be getting swindled by a team in a more desperate position than we are. If Mahinmi has to be included in a Beal trade, than we should pass hard.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

I did say if AD agrees.
I think you are all underestimating a core of Jrue, Beal, Niko and AD.

[tdcreator]

No way can you take back all that crap from Washington, give up Moore and Randle, AND give two firsts.

AD would 100% have to agree to resigning before I did something like this.

I’m sure Davis will be involved in all the decisions. It’ll come down to Beal or the piece to get him. Satoransky I doubt will be in any conversation since he’ll prob be the wiz starting PG.

[DroopyDawg]

So is this still a thing or is this just pages of ESPN trade machine talk?

[tdcreator]

So is this still a thing or is this just pages of ESPN trade machine talk?

I think all hypothetical since Wall is out for the year and Wizards are over the tax.