Rumor: Pels interested in trading for Otto Porter

[PELICANSFAN]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycb9yo6s

WIZARDS get Niko, Tristen Thompson PELS 2019 1st and 2021 1st

CAVS get Solomon Hill, Moore, Diallo and PELS 2023 first top 5 protected

PELS receive John Wall and Markieff Morris

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycb9yo6s

John Wall is a superstar. Wizards would probably take two first rounders, Niko and Tristan Thompson. They get rid of Wall who has a lot of drama with the head coach and he has a long contract. They probably want to move him. They could move Wall and add a very talented center and Niko who is expiring but could be resigned possibly. The Wizards could tank, have a lotto pick and our first rounder plus and first in 2021.

CAVS would get a very good guard in Moore who has a great contract, a decent first round pick and a young PF in Diallo and Hill. They are in rebuild mode and adding Hill who has really high value IMO plus a first could help them in rebuild. Might be a hard sell depending on how much they would value Moore and the pick.




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That may be the worst trade I have seen proposed here. Why in the world would the Pelicans trade 3 1st rounders, Niko and Moore for a guy with a terrible attitude, bad knees and an albatross of a contract like Wall? That is the kind of trade that would sink a team now and in the future.

[Rafa Brazil]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycb9yo6s

WIZARDS get Niko, Tristen Thompson PELS 2019 1st and 2021 1st

CAVS get Solomon Hill, Moore, Diallo and PELS 2023 first top 5 protected

PELS receive John Wall and Markieff Morris

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycb9yo6s

John Wall is a superstar. Wizards would probably take two first rounders, Niko and Tristan Thompson. They get rid of Wall who has a lot of drama with the head coach and he has a long contract. They probably want to move him. They could move Wall and add a very talented center and Niko who is expiring but could be resigned possibly. The Wizards could tank, have a lotto pick and our first rounder plus and first in 2021.

CAVS would get a very good guard in Moore who has a great contract, a decent first round pick and a young PF in Diallo and Hill. They are in rebuild mode and adding Hill who has really high value IMO plus a first could help them in rebuild. Might be a hard sell depending on how much they would value Moore and the pick.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wait, are we talking about the same Hill?? THE Solomon Hill???????

If so, please, go see a doctor ASAP, there's treatment.

[Eman5805]

But you are talking like really rare here, man. Like, maybe only 80% of the time. So it almost never happens. So you keep dreaming about your rare thing. This is the rare thing I will state happens for sure.

Im dreaming about a 10% chance? Nice to know you think so highly of me....

[tdcreator]

I think it’s funny that Mm thinks we can’t keep Randle and Niko next year but in the same breath thinks we could keep Randle with porter making way more (if we were to trade for Porter). Apparently Randles ego won’t get in the way for a SF like it would for another PF. There is a huge chance that if we trade Niko we could lose Randle in the off season as well. I’m ok with or without Niko but we’ve shown we can win with him and if Randle signs somewhere for a lot more we’ll have a lot of money for free agents but I’d rather take my chances resigning both this offseason then breaking up the chemistry we’ve been building.

[wnelson]

We need to move solo and a first for an expiring in order to resign Niko, randle and maybe Payton.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I think it’s funny that Mm thinks we can’t keep Randle and Niko next year but in the same breath thinks we could keep Randle with porter making way more (if we were to trade for Porter). Apparently Randles ego won’t get in the way for a SF like it would for another PF. There is a huge chance that if we trade Niko we could lose Randle in the off season as well. I’m ok with or without Niko but we’ve shown we can win with him and if Randle signs somewhere for a lot more we’ll have a lot of money for free agents but I’d rather take my chances resigning both this offseason then breaking up the chemistry we’ve been building.

I can go into more detail trying to explain the logistics behind the scenes and the obvious differences in the two scenarios here, but I will stop. I know you guys just want to believe that they can add a wing and then also keep all the free agents and live in Utopia, so I won't fight against.it.

But when Niko is traded, don't come to me asking me to explain why. I already tried

[6warddude]

im holding out that dallas fade out and we can trade niko for harrison barnes so he can be the new dirk for them...

[Silver Nail]

I still see a path to keeping both Nico and JR. How about Wes and Solo and a pick for Lopez and Holiday

[tdcreator]

I can go into more detail trying to explain the logistics behind the scenes and the obvious differences in the two scenarios here, but I will stop. I know you guys just want to believe that they can add a wing and then also keep all the free agents and live in Utopia, so I won't fight against.it.

But when Niko is traded, don't come to me asking me to explain why. I already tried

I’m not saying they won’t move Niko and I do understand why you would potentially move him for future potential. What I don’t understand is with a decent piece or 2 we could have a very special year and even you you have said it’s so hard to win a championship. I personally think Niko, Randle, and Davis at the bigs gives us our best chance this year.

The other reason I want to go all in this year is nobody seems to think we’d lose Randle in the offseason. Teams are going to have so much money that I doubt any wink wink deal will work. Whatever we trade for will have to be expiring to keep him especially if his ego is going to get in the way. MM I’m not bashing your insight into the team but more the lack of faith that this team could be great this year and I don’t think moving core pieces will help.

[AusPel]

Rumour: Pels interested in playing defence once every 10 games

[Mythrol]

I can go into more detail trying to explain the logistics behind the scenes and the obvious differences in the two scenarios here, but I will stop. I know you guys just want to believe that they can add a wing and then also keep all the free agents and live in Utopia, so I won't fight against.it.

But when Niko is traded, don't come to me asking me to explain why. I already tried

Yes I'd like you to go into more details about why you think Randle is safe if Niko is traded.

We already know Niko is on the chopping block because we saw that we were trying to move him in the Butler trade.

But if you have some inside insight on why the Pels think they can keep Randle given our current cap situation and how much more money other teams will have this offseason then please spill it.

From the outside looking in whether Niko is here or not if Randle keeps up this play its going to be hard to clear enough space to keep him.

[MichaelMcNamara]

They wouldn't clear cap space. They would sign him to a 2/21 with a wink wink that he will opt out in summer of 2020 to sign for 4/80. He aint getting a 5/90 next summer, which would be essentially what the Pels would be offering.

Now, your retort will be, "Why would he do that and risk losing it all if he ruptures an Achilles"

Well, he wouldn't if the Pels signed Niko long term and he knows they don't need him as much. He holds just as much leverage if he is there only other option at big after trading Niko.

Is it POSSIBLE, someone comes along and offers 4/80 next summer and Randle doesn't take that risk. Of course its possible. But thats unlikely.

The Pels have a couple of plays here - all of which have pros and cons. All of which could blow up in their face if one team comes out of nowhere a la Rondo. But the highest percentage play is moving Niko for a SF, keeping Randle and boosting up his belief that he is necessary and part of the future and getting him to sign a wink-wink this summer. That is all assuming, of course, that AD re-signs as well.

Its a high wire act. As always. But its the highest percentage play amongst a lot of options that are unlikely. The most unlikely of which is trying to keep everyone and hoping that both Niko re-signs this summer AND Randle takes that same wink-wink for some reason, despite him knowing that the Pels could easily walk away from him if something goes wrong.

[Mythrol]

They wouldn't clear cap space. They would sign him to a 2/21 with a wink wink that he will opt out in summer of 2020 to sign for 4/80. He aint getting a 5/90 next summer, which would be essentially what the Pels would be offering.

Now, your retort will be, "Why would he do that and risk losing it all if he ruptures an Achilles"

Well, he wouldn't if the Pels signed Niko long term and he knows they don't need him as much. He holds just as much leverage if he is there only other option at big after trading Niko.

Is it POSSIBLE, someone comes along and offers 4/80 next summer and Randle doesn't take that risk. Of course its possible. But thats unlikely.

The Pels have a couple of plays here - all of which have pros and cons. All of which could blow up in their face if one team comes out of nowhere a la Rondo. But the highest percentage play is moving Niko for a SF, keeping Randle and boosting up his belief that he is necessary and part of the future and getting him to sign a wink-wink this summer. That is all assuming, of course, that AD re-signs as well.

Its a high wire act. As always. But its the highest percentage play amongst a lot of options that are unlikely. The most unlikely of which is trying to keep everyone and hoping that both Niko re-signs this summer AND Randle takes that same wink-wink for some reason, despite him knowing that the Pels could easily walk away from him if something goes wrong.

I think it's a huge logical fallacy to believe no team will offer Randle a big deal this summer and yet we will offer him that type of deal in two years.

The only thing we can do is as you said, offer some wink wink deal. But if some team gives him 50m more guaranteed than us, that's a huge ask for a guy who has never gotten a big payday to walk away from and risk it all.

As it stands I think odds are more in favor of Randle getting another big offer that is hard to pass up than it is that we resign him. We poached Moore doing this same method that some team will use on Randle. The Lakers poached Rondo just last summer using this method. And those weren't even for much more money.

For all the talk of fans dreaming of keeping all the players and having it all, this Randle scenario of a wink wink deal seems like just as much of a fan fiction dream.

I would downright call Randle stupid if he got offered a big deal from another team and turned it down because of a wink wink deal with us. Loyalty only goes so far and as we just saw with Cousins, one injury and it all goes away.

[Darkhorse985]

I also agree that with the amount of money teams will have next offseason, Randle will get a 4/$80 million offer. Some mid tier team missing out on the superstars would do well pursuing a player like Randle. He won’t pass that kind of deal up if we can’t match it. If AD holds off on accepting the max extension next year, that further clouds the situation of a wink wink loyalty deal. The guy has never been paid that kind of money, and he is worth it.

MM, I am surprised you believe a wink wink deal with Randle is our best option. That seems like a foolish bet.

[Darkhorse985]

If Porter prevents us from signing Randle to a 4/$80 million deal in the offseason, then I wouldn’t pursue Porter. Randle is a significantly better player than Porter. Porter is an above average starting SF on max contract. Those kind of overpays destroy teams.

[PELICANSFAN]

They wouldn't clear cap space. They would sign him to a 2/21 with a wink wink that he will opt out in summer of 2020 to sign for 4/80. He aint getting a 5/90 next summer, which would be essentially what the Pels would be offering.

Now, your retort will be, "Why would he do that and risk losing it all if he ruptures an Achilles"

Well, he wouldn't if the Pels signed Niko long term and he knows they don't need him as much. He holds just as much leverage if he is there only other option at big after trading Niko.

Is it POSSIBLE, someone comes along and offers 4/80 next summer and Randle doesn't take that risk. Of course its possible. But thats unlikely.

The Pels have a couple of plays here - all of which have pros and cons. All of which could blow up in their face if one team comes out of nowhere a la Rondo. But the highest percentage play is moving Niko for a SF, keeping Randle and boosting up his belief that he is necessary and part of the future and getting him to sign a wink-wink this summer. That is all assuming, of course, that AD re-signs as well.

Its a high wire act. As always. But its the highest percentage play amongst a lot of options that are unlikely. The most unlikely of which is trying to keep everyone and hoping that both Niko re-signs this summer AND Randle takes that same wink-wink for some reason, despite him knowing that the Pels could easily walk away from him if something goes wrong.

Weren't we in that same situation with Boogie whereby we needed him and yet, after his injury, allowed him to walk? Would Randle's agent see that as a possibility?

Also, in your opinion, would trading for Porter move the needle as far as convincing AD he needs to stay and re-sign? If the answer is not yes, is it worth taking on that deal?

[MichaelMcNamara]

I think it's a huge logical fallacy to believe no team will offer Randle a big deal this summer and yet we will offer him that type of deal in two years.

The only thing we can do is as you said, offer some wink wink deal. But if some team gives him 50m more guaranteed than us, that's a huge ask for a guy who has never gotten a big payday to walk away from and risk it all.

As it stands I think odds are more in favor of Randle getting another big offer that is hard to pass up than it is that we resign him. We poached Moore doing this same method that some team will use on Randle. The Lakers poached Rondo just last summer using this method. And those weren't even for much more money.

For all the talk of fans dreaming of keeping all the players and having it all, this Randle scenario of a wink wink deal seems like just as much of a fan fiction dream.

I would downright call Randle stupid if he got offered a big deal from another team and turned it down because of a wink wink deal with us. Loyalty only goes so far and as we just saw with Cousins, one injury and it all goes away.

1. I don't think you know what a fallacy is. Or you do and you used it incorrectly here.

2. I think the odds of Randle get a big, multi year deal is much smaller than you think. Over the past few years, we are seeing teams going after top flight options and then if they don't get them, they use their space on guys with 1 or 2 year deals. Basically kicking the can forward. Look at this past summer. Find me the non all stars that got big, multi year deals from a new team.

3. These aren't my "fan fiction" thoughts. I actually never even thought of this route. This thought process is coming from people who actually make the decisions. Not some random blogger.

[MichaelMcNamara]

If Porter prevents us from signing Randle to a 4/$80 million deal in the offseason, then I wouldn’t pursue Porter. Randle is a significantly better player than Porter. Porter is an above average starting SF on max contract. Those kind of overpays destroy teams.

The only way you sign Randle to 4/80 this summer is if you clear a bunch of other things off the books, get rid of cap holds and also lose tools like the MLE. Regardless of whether or not you get Porter, the Pels should not clear cap space this summer just to use it to sign Randle to some big deal

[MichaelMcNamara]

Weren't we in that same situation with Boogie whereby we needed him and yet, after his injury, allowed him to walk? Would Randle's agent see that as a possibility?

Also, in your opinion, would trading for Porter move the needle as far as convincing AD he needs to stay and re-sign? If the answer is not yes, is it worth taking on that deal?

If the only question you are asking yourself is: Does this move convince AD to re-sign?

Then, you will not make a move because no move will present itself that will make his re-signing a no brainer.

Every choice Dell has is a choice that has less than a 50% chance of working. You have to hope to get lucky and to catch lightning in a bottle. Some "no brainer, home run" opportunity aint coming along.

[da ThRONe]

There's two things that will keep Davis and those two things are money and/or contending team. The money we have on our side. Dell has to do his best to put a contender together. I just don't see how we do that giving Otto Porter max money.

[MichaelMcNamara]

There's two things that will keep Davis and those two things are money and/or contending team. The money we have on our side. Dell has to do his best to put a contender together. I just don't see how we do that giving Otto Porter max money.

Its not and/or....its AND

Money alone won't be enough. He will have to see a team that will contend not only next year but for at least the next 3 or 4. And you can do it with Otto at that salary IF Otto unleashes his full potential, like Jrue has done.

John Wall has the bigger potential of crashing and burning, but I also believe he has the higher upside and the better chance to trick AD into thinking you will be a long term contender. I can see a scenario where Wall comes and is super motivated for the rest of the year and the team causes havoc. Randle tells AD he will agree to the wink-wink if he signs the super max and AD thinks to himself "I got Jrue and Wall giving me one of the best backcourts in the league and Randle hitting his prime. KD is leaving GS, we can be a dynasty!"

He would be wrong, but I could see a scenario where he believes that and signs the supermax because of it. Harder for me to see him believing a dynasty is possible because they added Porter or DeMarre Carroll or Ariza, etc.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Its not and/or....its AND

Money alone won't be enough. He will have to see a team that will contend not only next year but for at least the next 3 or 4. And you can do it with Otto at that salary IF Otto unleashes his full potential, like Jrue has done.

John Wall has the bigger potential of crashing and burning, but I also believe he has the higher upside and the better chance to trick AD into thinking you will be a long term contender. I can see a scenario where Wall comes and is super motivated for the rest of the year and the team causes havoc. Randle tells AD he will agree to the wink-wink if he signs the super max and AD thinks to himself "I got Jrue and Wall giving me one of the best backcourts in the league and Randle hitting his prime. KD is leaving, we can be a dynasty!"

He would be wrong, but I could see a scenario where he believes that and signs the superman because of it. Harder for me to see him believing a dynasty is possible because they added Porter or DeMarre Carroll or Ariza, etc.

You think the way Porter is playing now is the Porter we will get in Gentry's system or a better player?

I guess its between Barnes and Porter.
Who ever fits Gentry's system is who I want.

[6warddude]

You think the way Porter is playing now is the Porter we will get in Gentry's system or a better player?

I guess its between Barnes and Porter.
Who ever fits Gentry's system is who I want.

thats why i hope we can some how get barnes because he can step right in and play the system and give us offense and defense...payton,,jrue,,barnes,,AD,,randall starting 5 is all i want to see come playoff time....moore as the 6th man...the rest of the bench becoming strong from a hill and 1st trade and go to battle with that......im praying for this...

[Mythrol]

1. I don't think you know what a fallacy is. Or you do and you used it incorrectly here.

2. I think the odds of Randle get a big, multi year deal is much smaller than you think. Over the past few years, we are seeing teams going after top flight options and then if they don't get them, they use their space on guys with 1 or 2 year deals. Basically kicking the can forward. Look at this past summer. Find me the non all stars that got big, multi year deals from a new team.

3. These aren't my "fan fiction" thoughts. I actually never even thought of this route. This thought process is coming from people who actually make the decisions. Not some random blogger.

There weren't a ton of big contracts given out because the cap didn't move a ton and so many teams were strapped for cash. This is a completely different situation than what's coming this summer.

It's simple: How much do you think Niko is going to get this summer and do you think Randle is better than Niko? This idea that Randle won't get a good offer well larger than us is just wrong. He will in this market. And as was pointed out there's just the example of Cousins getting injured and this organization not giving a big long term deal. Any agent worth his salt is going to push Randle towards the guaranteed money especially if it's a good size difference between than 2yr/24ish that we can offer Randle.

Either Randle is worth the 4yr/80m contract now or he's not. This logic that no team will offer him that type of deal this summer BUT we will promise him that a year later is stupid. How is that not considered an overpay then at that point and why should we pay a guy 80m if he's not worth it? Because he's worth more to us? That's stupid logic, people roasted the Asik deal and Hill deal because of that same thinking.

I don't care if it's you thinking it or it's someone in the front office, it's a logical fallacy to believe that Randle won't get that type of offer if he's worth it.

[MichaelMcNamara]

There weren't a ton of big contracts given out because the cap didn't move a ton and so many teams were strapped for cash. This is a completely different situation than what's coming this summer.

It's simple: How much do you think Niko is going to get this summer and do you think Randle is better than Niko? This idea that Randle won't get a good offer well larger than us is just wrong. He will in this market. And as was pointed out there's just the example of Cousins getting injured and this organization not giving a big long term deal. Any agent worth his salt is going to push Randle towards the guaranteed money especially if it's a good size difference between than 2yr/24ish that we can offer Randle.

Either Randle is worth the 4yr/80m contract now or he's not. This logic that no team will offer him that type of deal this summer BUT we will promise him that a year later is stupid. How is that not considered an overpay then at that point and why should we pay a guy 80m if he's not worth it? Because he's worth more to us? That's stupid logic, people roasted the Asik deal and Hill deal because of that same thinking.

I don't care if it's you thinking it or it's someone in the front office, it's a logical fallacy to believe that Randle won't get that type of offer if he's worth it.

There are also far more free agents this year. FORTY NINE percent of the league will be free agents. On top of that, a good draft class is coming in too.

Teams are smarter now. They won't just spend money to spend it and if they do, they will be doing it with one or two year contracts unless the guy is already on their team and Bird Rights allow them to go over. Moving forward, only the elite players or players who have the potential to be elite will be signed to massive long term deals. And Randle is neither of those things. He is an undersized big who can't shoot well in a league that values shooting.

He only fits and can finish game next to a hand full of guys. AD is one of those. You will see.... He ain't getting those offers you seem to think he will get