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Thread: How good is Jrue Holiday?

  1. #1
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! pelicanchamp's Avatar
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    How good is Jrue Holiday?

    Man. The way Jrue played last season really impressed me. I think he is entering his prime this year. Rondo made him better but I honestly think Jrue is going to be just fine without Rondo. He played like a star player, he’s one of the best guards in the league. He’s not as flashy and his personality is pretty laid back but I bet if he acted really cocky and aggressive he’d be treated more like a star player. What’s missing in Jrue’s game? He’s good at everything. He can score on anyone in ISO. He can guard just about anyone. He is a decent 3 point shooter and a good facilitator. He rebounds well and has decent bbiq.

    I think he needs to improve his shooting, mainly his 3 point shooting. Do more catch and shoot spot up shooting. If he improves his shooting, and improves his FT percentage and shows more leadership as a playmaker and is more clutch it will be fair to say he is a borderline superstar. These are big expectations but if he can improve in all these areas the league better watch out!!!

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  2. #2
    Holiday's game is so under appreciated by average NBA fans. Watch those highlights and just watch the crossover he uses to get open in the paint. That is a super nasty move. He turned around Dame, CJ, and Turner all with his crossover.

    Jrue's biggest weakness was he wasn't consistent but it finally looks like he figured it out last season.

    I'm not super interested in Jrue trying to go back to Spot up 3pt shooting. That's what his game was before this season. Jrue really turned his corner whenever he figured out how to consistently beat guys in and around the paint. I want him to just focus on becoming a beast taking guys off the dribble.
    Last edited by Mythrol; 08-13-2018 at 07:16 AM.

  3. #3
    Anyone who watched the playoffs knows how good he is. He was effectively unstoppable on offense. And I agree with Mythrol, while it would be great if he was a lights out 3pt catch and shot guy his shot is still effective and his strength is his ability to break down anyone in the league in penetration and finish at the rim or disrupt the defense and find an open guy. I mean I feel like I didn't see him miss a single shot inside 8-10ft in the playoffs and none of them were easy. And he did this over a significant stretch of games while playing what I think is the best perimeter defense consistently that I have ever seen.

    Theres no sense trying to make him Steph Curry when there are a ton of guys who would love to be Jrue Holiday. If his playoff performance is his consistent self he isn't a "borderline" anything.

  4. #4
    Jrue is already an all-star in my book. The people that wanted him gone are thankfully no where to be found. If he duplicates last years performance, the Pels brass would be wise to tear up his contract and max him to new 10 yr service deal keeping him here for the long run.

  5. #5
    I agree with Mythrol, his biggest issue before last season was consistency. He's a defensive stalwart, a strong passer, a decent shooter, and an absolutely elite finisher at the rim.

    I don't even agree with the idea that he needs to be more clutch; Jrue was last season's 7th best scorer in clutch situations, and very little of it was assisted: it was mostly him making stuff happen. That's as clutch as I need from anyone.
    Basketball.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Nail View Post
    Jrue is already an all-star in my book. The people that wanted him gone are thankfully no where to be found. If he duplicates last years performance, the Pels brass would be wise to tear up his contract and max him to new 10 yr service deal keeping him here for the long run.
    Nahhh, hes paid very well for what he does.. Hes still under contract for 3 more years after this year, hes not going anywhere

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by soggymoss View Post
    Nahhh, hes paid very well for what he does.. Hes still under contract for 3 more years after this year, hes not going anywhere
    That's the kind of thinking that causes these guys to ask for outs. Don't forget, Jrue took less to stay here and if he produces again he is going to want to get paid like his peers. That extra 8-12 mil per and new 5 yr keeps him here till his last contract. Also, next summer we supermax AD. Now the 2 best players are here till 2024 at least. If we ******** him off by not doing it, who knows what AD thinks???????? IF Jrue makes us trade him like CP3 or Kwahi, AD will follow suit. The ball is still in Jrue's court this yr. If it's a good one, Dell better not drop it.

  8. #8
    He isn't even eligible to negotiate a new contract yet. We took a chance on him giving him a huge 5yr deal. He is happy and we are too. No need to try and over think it.

  9. #9
    All-Star Cheaney's Avatar
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    So many missed big free throws at end of games. He is baller for sure, I was always nervous when he went to the line tho.

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    2017-2018 Finals MVP: Jrue Holiday

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    He isn't even eligible to negotiate a new contract yet. We took a chance on him giving him a huge 5yr deal. He is happy and we are too. No need to try and over think it.
    Are you saying that after 2 years into a 4 plus 1 contract the parties are unable to renegotiate? If that is a fact, then I stand corrected, if not, then I don't think it's being overthought. Just proactive!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Nail View Post
    Are you saying that after 2 years into a 4 plus 1 contract the parties are unable to renegotiate? If that is a fact, then I stand corrected, if not, then I don't think it's being overthought. Just proactive!
    It's not a 4+1 deal in the eyes of the NBA just because Jrue has a player option in year 5. It still is viewed as a 5 year deal. Which means the earliest he could sign an extension would be after the 3rd season of it.

    Not only that but a veteran extension can only be for a total length of 5 years. Meaning currently what's left plus the extended contract can only equal 5 total seasons. There are no 10 year contracts in the NBA or any way to extend a player for that long.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    It's not a 4+1 deal in the eyes of the NBA just because Jrue has a player option in year 5. It still is viewed as a 5 year deal. Which means the earliest he could sign an extension would be after the 3rd season of it.

    Not only that but a veteran extension can only be for a total length of 5 years. Meaning currently what's left plus the extended contract can only equal 5 total seasons. There are no 10 year contracts in the NBA or any way to extend a player for that long.
    Thanks for the info of 3 seasons in before extension eligible, didn't know that. However; I have no clue why you mentioned this ten yr contract. I didn't say that at all. Was very clear that it would end in 2024. He has 10 yrs or service in after this season, that was the basic principle for my logic. Regardless, that's even better for Pels, and I guess you were right, no reason to over think it.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Nail View Post
    Thanks for the info of 3 seasons in before extension eligible, didn't know that. However; I have no clue why you mentioned this ten yr contract. I didn't say that at all. Was very clear that it would end in 2024. He has 10 yrs or service in after this season, that was the basic principle for my logic. Regardless, that's even better for Pels, and I guess you were right, no reason to over think it.
    Ah I thought you were saying you wanted to extend his contract so it would run for 10 total years. Like Add another 5 years to the end of this one. I see now what you were saying.

    Yes, he's locked in to a good long term deal that everyone should be happy with.

  14. #14
    Jrue needs to get to the freethrow line more. Improving 3 point shooting would be nice, but his freethrow rate is what's really keeping him from being a perennial allstar.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelifan View Post
    Jrue needs to get to the freethrow line more. Improving 3 point shooting would be nice, but his freethrow rate is what's really keeping him from being a perennial allstar.
    That's kinda true. Jrue only shot 2.9 FTA per game this year. Number one in the league was Harden, who shot 10. AD was second, he shot 8. If Jrue could get up to around 4, that would be huge, but that's not entirely on him. The refs just watch him get bashed around and refuse to call it.

  16. #16
    I really liked playoff Jrue. Best I've seen him play.

  17. #17
    Hopefully, the star power recognition he received from last years efforts (first team defense, playoff monster) gets him a few more calls from the refs. Alvin said throughout last season how Jrue was in a good place mentally. He got better and better leading up to the Portland sweep. A bit of help from Rondo early on gave him a bit of a push. I truly believe that he feels this is his and AD's team now and they will lead the rest of our very talented young guys going forward. I don't like to predict W and L's due to unknown injury factors. But if we can stay healthy there is no team we can't beat. Including Booger's team.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Nail View Post
    Jrue is already an all-star in my book. The people that wanted him gone are thankfully no where to be found. If he duplicates last years performance, the Pels brass would be wise to tear up his contract and max him to new 10 yr service deal keeping him here for the long run.
    I wanted him gone and I'm right here. The decision to sign Holiday was the low percentage move. Last year was year one of his contract. Injuries has been the problem along with (as previously pointed out) consistency. Hopefully Holiday has figured it out, but fans are too up and down based on portions of a season. Lillard and McCollum aren't the greatest defenders. However there's definitely reason to be optimistic about Holiday and his contract that didn't exist just last off season when we gave him the deal.
    Last edited by da ThRONe; 08-15-2018 at 04:42 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    I wanted him gone and I'm right here. The decision to sign Holiday was the low percentage move. Last year was year one of his contract. Injuries has been the problem along with (as previously pointed out) consistancy. Hopefully Holiday has figured it out, but fans are too up and down based on portions of a season. Lillard and McCollum aren't the greatest defenders. However there's definitely reason to be optimistic about Holiday and his contract that didn't exist just last off season when we gave him the deal.
    I don't really think you can hold injuries against Jrue at this point, at least not as a big factor. The last two seasons, he's missed 4 games due to injury (obviously he only played 67 games in 2016-17 but that's not due to injury, and we can't hold that against him). That's less games than James Harden missed this season alone. Less than Curry missed this season alone. Less than CP3, Mike Conley, Lonzo Ball, Rondo, Kyrie Irving, Lillard, John Wall, and Goran Dragic, just to name other guards. He hasn't been seriously impacted by injury since three years ago.

    As for consistency, I think he's solved that problem. He started off the season slowly, with a few single digit scoring games, largely due to the fact that the team was still adjusting. AD didn't play his best basketball during this time span either: people were trying adjust to Cousins, who was putting up big numbers. But from December until the end of the season, Jrue averaged 20.1/4.6/6.2/1.6/1 on 50.5% from the field and 36.2% from 3. That's a 60 game sample size, and those numbers only increase during the 9 playoff games he played. So that's 69 games of basically putting up 20/5/6 on 50%+ efficiency. That's basically a full season (more games than many of the earlier named guys played this season). If a full season of playing at that standard is 'inconsistent', especially for a player just entering his prime years (Jrue just turned 28), then I'll take inconsistent any day.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    I wanted him gone and I'm right here. The decision to sign Holiday was the low percentage move. Last year was year one of his contract. Injuries has been the problem along with (as previously pointed out) consistancy. Hopefully Holiday has figured it out, but fans are too up and down based on portions of a season. Lillard and McCollum aren't the greatest defenders. However there's definitely reason to be optimistic about Holiday and his contract that didn't exist just last off season when we gave him the deal.
    Glad to see you are optimistic about his contract. Likewise, glad you are here, you bring valuable insight to the forum. Also respect your opinion that it was a low percentage move. But that is where we differ. You probably didn't factor in his entire life situation to your calculation. Had you done so as I and many others here did, you may have seen that the percentage was not low at all, quite the opposite.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I don't really think you can hold injuries against Jrue at this point, at least not as a big factor. The last two seasons, he's missed 4 games due to injury (obviously he only played 67 games in 2016-17 but that's not due to injury, and we can't hold that against him). That's less games than James Harden missed this season alone. Less than Curry missed this season alone. Less than CP3, Mike Conley, Lonzo Ball, Rondo, Kyrie Irving, Lillard, John Wall, and Goran Dragic, just to name other guards. He hasn't been seriously impacted by injury since three years ago.

    As for consistency, I think he's solved that problem. He started off the season slowly, with a few single digit scoring games, largely due to the fact that the team was still adjusting. AD didn't play his best basketball during this time span either: people were trying adjust to Cousins, who was putting up big numbers. But from December until the end of the season, Jrue averaged 20.1/4.6/6.2/1.6/1 on 50.5% from the field and 36.2% from 3. That's a 60 game sample size, and those numbers only increase during the 9 playoff games he played. So that's 69 games of basically putting up 20/5/6 on 50%+ efficiency. That's basically a full season (more games than many of the earlier named guys played this season). If a full season of playing at that standard is 'inconsistent', especially for a player just entering his prime years (Jrue just turned 28), then I'll take inconsistent any day.
    I don't disagree with this post. Hopefully this is the Jrue we get and certainly the one we expected after the trade 5 years ago. My point was there were major issues re-signing Holiday last year and I'm not going to act like there wasn't because of hindsight after one season.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Nail View Post
    Glad to see you are optimistic about his contract. Likewise, glad you are here, you bring valuable insight to the forum. Also respect your opinion that it was a low percentage move. But that is where we differ. You probably didn't factor in his entire life situation to your calculation. Had you done so as I and many others here did, you may have seen that the percentage was not low at all, quite the opposite.
    No I factored in pretty much everything and just concluded there was more to go wrong than right. Unfortunately those factors aren't completely gone. Jrue always had tangibles that were attractive. Shooting, slashing, and top notch defense. The problems were his knack for making big errors at key times, disappearing for games and an inability to stay healthy. I think one potential problem for next year that's are over looked is how taking away pg duties helped his game. Now without Rondo (one of the all time premier passer) as the point will he be able to thrive? Again as a fan I can only hope everything works itself out.

  23. #23
    Jrue has only had 1 major injury in his entire 9 year career. It has been 3 full seasons since his 1 major injury healed and the most he has gotten since then was an orbital facture from taking a random elbow to the face. This narrative that Jrue has an inability to stay healthy is simply wrong.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    Jrue has only had 1 major injury in his entire 9 year career. It has been 3 full seasons since his 1 major injury healed and the most he has gotten since then was an orbital facture from taking a random elbow to the face. This narrative that Jrue has an inability to stay healthy is simply wrong.
    Ok so not counting the last 2 season. This year was the 1st of the new deal and the previous year he missed a bunch of game due to his wife.

    The 3 seasons before he was a Pelican he played in 139 of 246 games which is 57% of potential games. Are you telling me that's not an injury issue.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    Ok so not counting the last 2 season. This year was the 1st of the new deal and the previous year he missed a bunch of game due to his wife.

    The 3 seasons before he was a Pelican he played in 139 of 246 games which is 57% of potential games. Are you telling me that's not an injury issue.
    Correct. He had 1 injury that took 2 seasons to get corrected. The following season he was brought along slowly to ensure that everything was healed properly. He has had no major injuries since. It has been 3 full seasons since that one major injury he had.

    One injury does not mean he has an injury issue. You cannot discredit 3 full seasons without injury to try and build up this narrative that he is an injury risk. Especially when those 3 seasons are the 3 most recent.

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