The great and powerful wizard Dell

[da ThRONe]

Yes rookie deals are good, but the vast majority of nba players take 3-6 years to fully develop and the hit rate fot star level players is like what? 10% of top 10 picks? And instant impact stars are much less common. In reality, those “Golden” rookie contracts are worth more as potential quality players. Let’s look at the players that our traded picks have become so far:

Nerlens Noel
Dario Saric
San Dekker
Buddy Hield
Zach collins
Chandler Hutchinson

Here is what we got back:
Jrue Holiday
Amir Asik (ok, that was bad...)
DeMarcus Cousins
Niko Mirotic

I think we got the WAY better end of the deal at this point. And having those other players would not have put us in any better position to keep AD.

This is a totally broken way to evaluate a draft pick. A draft pick should be graded based on who's available not who was actually drafted. Names like Steven Adams, Ginnais Antetokounmpo, Donovan Mitchell, Gary Harris, Clint Capela, Rudy Gobert, etc were available. So left not act like there's no value in those draft picks we traded simply because the teams we traded them to draft the players they chose.

And this doesn't even take into consideration those draft picks would be much higher in the lottery if we keep our young draft picks.

[PelsFan2313]

There's a difference between blaming Dell for trading multiple assets for Boogie and acknowledging that the outcome of the trade was unfavorable to us in retrospect. One can be true without the other. Did we ultimately lose out in this trade? Yes. Should Dell be blamed for making the trade in the first place? Absolutely not. If Boogie doesn't blow out his Achilles, we're talking about an entirely different narrative.

[DefensiveMind]

Demps I think has been better no doubt, but those past mistakes still haunt us. It's the difference makers that make or break a franchise. Demps usually does a good job with role/end of the bench players. It's been the main guys that hurt us. So 2nd rounders and late draft picks that have shown only the ability to be solid starters at best isn't what's going make us contenders.

Jury is still out on that.

A full season of Jrue playing like he did down the stretch is pretty darn “main-guyish”

A full season of “beardless Niko” is damn good.

And what would you say about a generic PF/C that was the 7th pick of his draft and gave you 19/9 in his age 22 season?





Now throw in a 25 yr old whose already a top 3 player of the World, Craig.


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[da ThRONe]

Jury is still out on that.

A full season of Jrue playing like he did down the stretch is pretty darn “main-guyish”

A full season of “beardless Niko” is damn good.

And what would you say about a generic PF/C that was the 7th pick of his draft and gave you 19/9 in his age 22 season?





Now throw in a 25 yr old whose already a top 3 player of the World, Craig.


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I respect this opinion, but I'd rather not want to go to "war" with this team. Looking at this roster given the landscape of the West and I'm not sure we are a playoff team. Sadly

[da ThRONe]

Just read Zach Lowe article about Cousins fit with the Warriors. In it he basically says we didn't even try to re-sign Cousins. Not sure how accurate it is, but wow if true. Why if the market for Cousins was supposedly so low he signs for 5.3 did we not make a push to give him a longer more lucrative deal? That should be damning for Demps again if true.

[DefensiveMind]

Just read Zach Lowe article about Cousins fit with the Warriors. In it he basically says we didn't even try to re-sign Cousins. Not sure how accurate it is, but wow if true. Why if the market for Cousins was supposedly so low he signs for 5.3 did we not make a push to give him a longer more lucrative deal? That should be damning for Demps again if true.

Its not true.

For better or worse, We’ve already seen Dell at work when it comes to showing his top guys he’s committed to winning. What Cousins and his team is purposely doing is leaving their definition of what constitutes a “push to sign him” completely ambiguous. They have every reason to do so. Because if they say what really happened, that the Pelicans basically treated Cousins like a RFA and allowed the market to set their offer for him, like any completely sane team would do in this situation... would be to let the world know that Boogie is STILL the same mercurial, emotional, player who made a rash impulsive decision because the Pels did not offer him a max deal at 1201 on the 1st. In order for this “woe is me” act to work, Boogie has to look contemplative, reflective and nuanced. That’s part of why the market dried up on him... teams didn’t want to take the risk of his personality on top of his injury. This is all spin to build back up his value for next summer.


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[stormcenter]

Because his numbers were probably out of the park and he figured I'll show them and signed with the Warriors for minimum wage to get his ring.
Would be fitting if the Warriors sucked (like not make it to the finals) this season and didn't win another title.

Just read Zach Lowe article about Cousins fit with the Warriors. In it he basically says we didn't even try to re-sign Cousins. Not sure how accurate it is, but wow if true. Why if the market for Cousins was supposedly so low he signs for 5.3 did we not make a push to give him a longer more lucrative deal? That should be damning for Demps again if true.

[soggymoss]

Because his numbers were probably out of the park and he figured I'll show them and signed with the Warriors for minimum wage to get his ring.
Would be fitting if the Warriors sucked (like not make it to the finals) this season and didn't win another title.

Secretly I'm hoping Curry and Durant tear their ACL in training camp

[RaisingTheBar]

The Rondo signing, Moore signing, Miller signing, Nico Trade ! Any of that ring a bell? Like a Playoff Bell or something. All GM's make mistakes. Half of the NBA is in $$$ Limbo because of Bonehead moves. Move along.

Rondo singing? We signed him for 1 year and he played awesome then left when we didn't have enough money BECAUSE of the contracts like Hill. Miller signing? Really? Come back to reality......who cares? Niko was the best thing he's ever done.

[soggymoss]

Rondo singing? We signed him for 1 year and he played awesome then left when we didn't have enough money BECAUSE of the contracts like Hill. Miller signing? Really? Come back to reality......who cares? Niko was the best thing he's ever done.

Hills contract has no bearing on us not having cap space this offseason, we still had Boogies cap hold that wouldve had us over the cap.. We offered Rondo the most we could, he walked over $400,000...

That's not Dell's fault

[Tinman]

Rondo singing? We signed him for 1 year and he played awesome then left when we didn't have enough money BECAUSE of the contracts like Hill. Miller signing? Really? Come back to reality......who cares? Niko was the best thing he's ever done.

your just hatin , thats all. Perspective & clear vision is out of the window.So, we overpaid Hill by 3-5 million. Get over it. You have blamed every move we couldnt make on Asik & Hill. , as if we are the only team strapped.

[msw2024]

your just hatin , thats all. Perspective & clear vision is out of the window.So, we overpaid Hill by 3-5 million. Get over it. You have blamed every move we couldnt make on Asik & Hill. , as if we are the only team strapped.

Don't forget Ajinca! lol

[DarkHornet]

your just hatin , thats all. Perspective & clear vision is out of the window.So, we overpaid Hill by 3-5 million. Get over it. You have blamed every move we couldnt make on Asik & Hill. , as if we are the only team strapped.

I would actually like to take this a different direction and praise Dell for not continuing to make that mistake. The Dell from the Asik deal would have probably broken the bank to make sure we didn't lose Cousins, and who knows what kind of a player he will be in a couple of years. Maybe he gets back to All Star form, but more than likely he won't. So, he played hardball and lost this time. I'm not going to hang him for that.

[DefensiveMind]

I would actually like to take this a different direction and praise Dell for not continuing to make that mistake. The Dell from the Asik deal would have probably broken the bank to make sure we didn't lose Cousins, and who knows what kind of a player he will be in a couple of years. Maybe he gets back to All Star form, but more than likely he won't. So, he played hardball and lost this time. I'm not going to hang him for that.

Hard ball would’ve been non tax payer MLE. Essentially what Randle got. The lowest figure I’ve heard was 1 yr 12 million AFTER Randle was signed... and that was the last and LOWEST offer.


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[cmariaou]

This is a totally broken way to evaluate a draft pick. A draft pick should be graded based on who's available not who was actually drafted. Names like Steven Adams, Ginnais Antetokounmpo, Donovan Mitchell, Gary Harris, Clint Capela, Rudy Gobert, etc were available. So left not act like there's no value in those draft picks we traded simply because the teams we traded them to draft the players they chose.

And this doesn't even take into consideration those draft picks would be much higher in the lottery if we keep our young draft picks.

I agree with you in principle that draft picks are valuable, but I think you are misinterpreting my point. The rate of return on the draft is not very high in the NBA. And if you do strike gold in the draft, the normal payback period is about 3-6 years. That is not an ideal senario for us considering the short window that we have with a superstar like AD is in his 3rd - 8th seasons. So the value that those picks have and the value that those rookie scale deals provide are not likely to create success with this team. They are more likely to create success by investing them in proven talent. My proof of this is by looking at our return. We spent the picks that brought those draftees mentioned above and got back the veteran players mentioned above. In comparison I think we have had more Success by trading the picks than we otherwise would have by keeping them..

Also, your point that players who were available, but not selected with the traded pick, add value reinforces my point. To explain:

Of the 24 players drafted in the 1st rd and still available at pick #6 in 2014, 5 or so that would have been valuable in being us success. Well that means that 19 would have been invaluable, or at least not of any significant value. That’s about a 20% rate of return. I said 10% in the previous post, which was probably low, but the idea is that the return is not very high.

[Tinman]

Don't forget Ajinca! lol

Ajinca's contract is NOT, what one would call an "overpaid disaster" it was a MLE type contract. Wont be difficult to move.

[msw2024]

Ajinca's contract is NOT, what one would call an "overpaid disaster" it was a MLE type contract. Wont be difficult to move.

I was being sarcastic and agreeing with you which why I put lol.


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[Tinman]

I was being sarcastic and agreeing with you which why I put lol.


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Some folks do wonder "if so easy to move" why didnt we do it last year? It is a good question.

[msw2024]

Some folks do wonder "if so easy to move" why didnt we do it last year? It is a good question.

I hope Dell got a plan. I am not a big fan of Dell since he has never put a team together that has fits his coaches style of play. I am hoping he has woke up now after watching us dominate the Blazers. This team without Boogie is perfect with Rondo. We lost on Rondo so hopefully he got a Plan B to get us a decent SF and PG with trades while shedding contracts of Ajinca and Hill. We will see, but I think Randle fits Gentry style far better than Cousins.


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[AusPel]

Some folks do wonder "if so easy to move" why didnt we do it last year? It is a good question.

Well should be easier to move this year since it expires this year

[N.O.Bronco]

Well should be easier to move this year since it expires this year

Yeah I imagine moving Ajinca shouldn’t be too much of a problem by the trade deadline.

[Tinman]

I hope Dell got a plan. I am not a big fan of Dell since he has never put a team together that has fits his coaches style of play. I am hoping he has woke up now after watching us dominate the Blazers. This team without Boogie is perfect with Rondo. We lost on Rondo so hopefully he got a Plan B to get us a decent SF and PG with trades while shedding contracts of Ajinca and Hill. We will see, but I think Randle fits Gentry style far better than Cousins.


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I gotta say- I am really looking forward to watching Frank Jackson. The dude can play. Lights out shooter!

[da ThRONe]

I agree with you in principle that draft picks are valuable, but I think you are misinterpreting my point. The rate of return on the draft is not very high in the NBA. And if you do strike gold in the draft, the normal payback period is about 3-6 years. That is not an ideal senario for us considering the short window that we have with a superstar like AD is in his 3rd - 8th seasons. So the value that those picks have and the value that those rookie scale deals provide are not likely to create success with this team. They are more likely to create success by investing them in proven talent. My proof of this is by looking at our return. We spent the picks that brought those draftees mentioned above and got back the veteran players mentioned above. In comparison I think we have had more Success by trading the picks than we otherwise would have by keeping them..

Also, your point that players who were available, but not selected with the traded pick, add value reinforces my point. To explain:

Of the 24 players drafted in the 1st rd and still available at pick #6 in 2014, 5 or so that would have been valuable in being us success. Well that means that 19 would have been invaluable, or at least not of any significant value. That’s about a 20% rate of return. I said 10% in the previous post, which was probably low, but the idea is that the return is not very high.

3-6 years when you have a player rights from 8 or 9 years is ideal.

As far as Davis 2013 was going until his sophomore season. We had plenty of time to develop him while developing the other draft picks.

Saying that we are more successful trading draft picks is based on how well our front office is at evaluating talent. The %'s isn't the same for every GM equally.

Every approach has inherent risk, IMO given everything CBA, marketsize, etc drafting has a higher rate of success.