Boogie is gone

[Eman5805]

That means Gayle is willing to go into taxpayer territory if needed,which if we re-sign Boogie we are already in taxpayer territory... Once we get into taxpayer money, our MLe drops to 5.4 million we can offer a single player (one would assume Rondo)

The warriors were actually below the cap when they signed Durant, they didnt exceed it until they started re-signing their own players (after the Durant contract)..

We could technically do the same, however we only have about 680,000 before we hit the 101 million cap threshold, so that's not feasible for us to do..

NBA cap is quite confusing sometimes

Great. So that comment in the Demps transcript is a bunch of nothing? Go into the tax and...do the same sort of stuff we were doing before? When the luxury tax was more like a hard cap because we were never allowed to go into it.

[msusousaphone]

We should all as least agree that we won't be letting Boogie walk.

Wherever he goes....it'll be more of a shuffle or still rolling.

[Pelicanidae]

In summary; the NBA cap is stupid and makes no sense. It's set up in such a way that teams like the Warriors can have seemingly infinite cash to resign their stars and just take tax as punishment; as if they care. It's set up in such a way as to make it possible for teams like Lebron's to just keep on spending and keep in paying off the tax to get seemingly whoever they like. Meanwhile, teams like us are sat wondering if we can scrape up the cash to resign our own free agents.

[soggymoss]

Great. So that comment in the Demps transcript is a bunch of nothing? Go into the tax and...do the same sort of stuff we were doing before? When the luxury tax was more like a hard cap because we were never allowed to go into it.

Pretty much, however if we re-sign Boogie and Rondo, all we have to really address is the SF position, and being we will be over the cap it would have to be either by a minimum contract guy, or a trade.

If we let Boogie walk, then we have to find a 5 on top of a SF, and we just dont have the trade assets to do both..

Theres no way we allow Boogie to walk IMO, even if we have to offer him a full 5 year max.

Then we will ship off a combo of Hill,Moore,Ajinca,Diallo,Jackson along with draft picks to get a competent SF

[Mythrol]

In summary; the NBA cap is stupid and makes no sense. It's set up in such a way that teams like the Warriors can have seemingly infinite cash to resign their stars and just take tax as punishment; as if they care. It's set up in such a way as to make it possible for teams like Lebron's to just keep on spending and keep in paying off the tax to get seemingly whoever they like. Meanwhile, teams like us are sat wondering if we can scrape up the cash to resign our own free agents.

While I agree a NFL style of hardcap would be much easier to make sense of the Warriors had a very unique situation happen that allowed them to get to this position.

First they hit on 4 draft picks including the absolute steal that was Green in the 2nd round. Also, Curry had an injury history that meant he took a below market deal. Just last year Curry was still making only 12m. Second is all 3 of their Star drafted core came up for free agency before the giant cap spike. This meant that when the giant spike happened their core was already locked up for multiple years at a realitively cheap price and they could flip their 4th draft hit (Barnes) to clear what bad contracts they did have on their roster because other teams had a ton of space.

So while the way the NBA does their cap might have been partially to blame for the Warriors really what happened was a perfect storm of an injury prone player becoming extremely healthy, hitting on multiple draft picks, and a monster cap spike over 1 free agency period. This allowed them to build their crazy core while not needing to touch the tax until Curry's new deal.


As far as the Cavs go, really look at their team. They got extremely lucky with multiple 1 overall picks but due to not hitting on them all still are in a pretty poor place without Lebron. They owe a lot of players, a lot of money who arent terribly good. The Kyrie trade netted them a good pick but they are on the hook for a big hunk of money with Clarkson and Nance Jr has 1 more cheap year before he's a RFA and will get paid. Lebron has basically covered over a lot of their roster weaknesses due to him being the best player in the world but even he is starting to seem like not enough to overcome that roster.

[Pelicanidae]

While I agree a NFL style of hardcap would be much easier to make sense of the Warriors had a very unique situation happen that allowed them to get to this position.

First they hit on 4 draft picks including the absolute steal that was Green in the 2nd round. Also, Curry had an injury history that meant he took a below market deal. Just last year Curry was still making only 12m. Second is all 3 of their Star drafted core came up for free agency before the giant cap spike. This meant that when the giant spike happened their core was already locked up for multiple years at a realitively cheap price and they could flip their 4th draft hit (Barnes) to clear what bad contracts they did have on their roster because other teams had a ton of space.

So while the way the NBA does their cap might have been partially to blame for the Warriors really what happened was a perfect storm of an injury prone player becoming extremely healthy, hitting on multiple draft picks, and a monster cap spike over 1 free agency period. This allowed them to build their crazy core while not needing to touch the tax until Curry's new deal.


As far as the Cavs go, really look at their team. They got extremely lucky with multiple 1 overall picks but due to not hitting on them all still are in a pretty poor place without Lebron. They owe a lot of players, a lot of money who arent terribly good. The Kyrie trade netted them a good pick but they are on the hook for a big hunk of money with Clarkson and Nance Jr has 1 more cheap year before he's a RFA and will get paid. Lebron has basically covered over a lot of their roster weaknesses due to him being the best player in the world but even he is starting to seem like not enough to overcome that roster.

I am aware of the warriors situation. They are still astronomically over tax. Where IS the hard cap, for them? Does it never come? I saw a tweet that said the combined cost of this Warriors team, plus he tax, over the next five years is $1.2 BILLION. How the HELL can that be allowed when other teams will be headbutting $100m and be incapable of exceeding it? Regardless of where it came from we're approaching pay to win.

As for the Cavs, that's partially due to Kyrie's trade demand. Last year, they were demolishing the East, getting to the finals, and we're still insanely over tax. It's easily to look at them now and say that they suck, which they do, but they were exceeding the tax last year for a good team that won the East easily. That's not fair.

I know I sound like a petulant child, but it's just so dumb. It's like in football where the best team is the team willing to spend £60m per year on a single player. It's frustrating and ruins all sense of balance. It stops being a game and starts being the stock exchange.

[soggymoss]

I am aware of the warriors situation. They are still astronomically over tax. Where IS the hard cap, for them? Does it never come? I saw a tweet that said the combined cost of this Warriors team, plus he tax, over the next five years is $1.2 BILLION. How the HELL can that be allowed when other teams will be headbutting $100m and be incapable of exceeding it? Regardless of where it came from we're approaching pay to win.

As for the Cavs, that's partially due to Kyrie's trade demand. Last year, they were demolishing the East, getting to the finals, and we're still insanely over tax. It's easily to look at them now and say that they suck, which they do, but they were exceeding the tax last year for a good team that won the East easily. That's not fair.

I know I sound like a petulant child, but it's just so dumb. It's like in football where the best team is the team willing to spend £60m per year on a single player. It's frustrating and ruins all sense of balance. It stops being a game and starts being the stock exchange.

Exactly.. The NBA would benefit from a set cap like the NFL, with ways to get out of contracts (or at least not have a HORRIBLE contract absolutely destroy your team for years)...

The luxury tax is a good idea, but these big market teams will just keep paying it over and over.. If they would do something along the lines of a team can only be a taxpayer for no more than 2-3 years and cant enter the tax for 5 years after, that would restore some kind of balance and allow the smaller market teams to compete

[PELICANSFAN]

Luxury tax is a farce. It is a way to pay off the owners of the smaller market teams to be the punching bags that allow the larger market teams to buy championships. There needs to be a hard cap so that all teams are on the same playing field.

[msw2024]

Say the Lakers get Lebron and PG13, but want boogie too...They can't sign him with cap space...Would anyone do this S&T with them?

Ingram and Randle(S&T) to Pels
Cousins to Lakers?

I would love Kuzma, but do not think they are giving him up. Ingram would start at SF and Randle would be a decent big off the bench?

[soggymoss]

Say the Lakers get Lebron and PG13, but want boogie too...They can't sign him with cap space...Would anyone do this S&T with them?

Ingram and Randle(S&T) to Pels
Cousins to Lakers?

I would love Kuzma, but do not think they are giving him up. Ingram would start at SF and Randle would be a decent big off the bench?

Randle would be the same as Mirotic.. We would need to acquire someone to play the 5 ro take Boogies place

[stormcenter]

With a hard cap teams like the Warriors would cease to exist unless high priced players were willing take below market value pay cut
for a chance to win a title. I don't see that happening. I read somewhere that Curry will be making $42 million in the last year of his current contract.
That is just crazy.

[Pelicanidae]

With a hard cap teams like the Warriors would cease to exist unless high priced players were willing take below market value pay cut
for a chance to win a title. I don't see that happening. I read somewhere that Curry will be making $42 million in the last year of his current contract.
That is just crazy.

More than that. The final year of Curry's contract is 2021-22, in which he will be paid $45.7m

[Mythrol]

I am aware of the warriors situation. They are still astronomically over tax. Where IS the hard cap, for them? Does it never come? I saw a tweet that said the combined cost of this Warriors team, plus he tax, over the next five years is $1.2 BILLION. How the HELL can that be allowed when other teams will be headbutting $100m and be incapable of exceeding it? Regardless of where it came from we're approaching pay to win.

As for the Cavs, that's partially due to Kyrie's trade demand. Last year, they were demolishing the East, getting to the finals, and we're still insanely over tax. It's easily to look at them now and say that they suck, which they do, but they were exceeding the tax last year for a good team that won the East easily. That's not fair.

I know I sound like a petulant child, but it's just so dumb. It's like in football where the best team is the team willing to spend £60m per year on a single player. It's frustrating and ruins all sense of balance. It stops being a game and starts being the stock exchange.

Because the Warriors did not activate the hard cap. I realize this is one of the quirks of the NBA cap but basically if you don't use an exception to sign a player you are not hardcapped during the season. You still have to worry about the apron but that is another matter.

I went into it in a little more depth in this thread I did months ago:

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...1&share_type=t

I don't however breakdown the details of the apron in depth and suggest looking into that if you have more confusion.

To sum up, the Pelicans can be just like the Warriors, as long as they don't use an exception to sign a player. That however becomes harder for us because players are willing to sign with the Warriors on a minimum deal because of being able to get a ring.

[Imnos 2]

My apologies if this has been answered elsewhere. Can someone tell me how much cap room we'll have if.Boogie just walks? This is minus all current free agents we have restricted and unrestricted.

[soggymoss]

My apologies if this has been answered elsewhere. Can someone tell me how much cap room we'll have if.Boogie just walks? This is minus all current free agents we have restricted and unrestricted.

We currently sit at around 680,000 of cap space available.. we can re-sign Boogie because we have his bird rights and can exceed the cap to sign him

[Pelicanidae]

Because the Warriors did not activate the hard cap. I realize this is one of the quirks of the NBA cap but basically if you don't use an exception to sign a player you are not hardcapped during the season. You still have to worry about the apron but that is another matter.

I went into it in a little more depth in this thread I did months ago:

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...1&share_type=t

I don't however breakdown the details of the apron in depth and suggest looking into that if you have more confusion.

To sum up, the Pelicans can be just like the Warriors, as long as they don't use an exception to sign a player. That however becomes harder for us because players are willing to sign with the Warriors on a minimum deal because of being able to get a ring.

I am aware. My point isn't that the NBA is somehow just allowing the Warriors to do something against the rules, they're not. The Warriors are within the bounds of the rules.

My point is that the rules are set up in such a way as to be easily exploited, and that this exploitation leads to insane levels of unbalance in the league, and there is no limit to it once it stops. Once it's up, and you've got the bird rights on all your guys, you can keep resigning them as long as you want to, as long as you're willing to pay taxes, and as you said, once you've done that you get players willing to come in for the minimum which means you never need to use exceptions again which means once you're in, you're in, and you don't ever have to leave. You can just spend spend spend.


At this point just let the Warriors all buy a ring from the league in pre-season, and we can all play an actual season for second place. It's pathetic.

[Imnos 2]

We currently sit at around 680,000 of cap space available.. we can re-sign Boogie because we have his bird rights and can exceed the cap to sign him

Thanks!

Then aren't we screwed if he leaves. There is no way to replace that talent if he leaves other than trades.....

[soggymoss]

Thanks!

Then aren't we screwed if he leaves. There is no way to replace that talent if he leaves other than trades.....

Pretty much yes.. If he does leave we could hopefully do a sign and trade with him (if not we really are screwed)..

As of now, if Boogie leaves we will have to fill the 5 and the SF position with trades and we dont have the assets for that...

Re-sign Boogie and use the MLE on Rondo, and all we have to fill is the SF position, which we could throw draft picks and Hill,Moore to aquire

[ml wave]

Golly,I hope thats sarcasm!
So, lets see-> If my statement was "Boogie has Zero Leverage"- this would axiomatically mean that ASIK could NOT have any less leverage than Boogie. But, I truly dont see any correlation at all between the two situations.But,if you wanna know who was in a better position-> it was definitely ASIK. He was Garbage, UNDER CONTRACT for 10,000,000 per year for 2017-18 & 18-19 ! NO matter what, he was getting paid.Boogie,on the other hand is receiving ZERO $$$ until he is signed. Pre-Injury,Boogie had some leverage. Post injury there is NOBODY going to pay him Max yr/Money contract. So, as far as the Pelicans go- PELS have all the leverage.

I figured it was understood that I meant Asik heading into his free agency in 2015, but apparently not. Let's set the scene for you:

Asik: team coming off of an inspired stretch/playoff run that ended in a convincing defeat to the Warriors. Asik was acquired via trade before the season, had an up-and-down year and was virtually unplayable in the playoffs due to both the opponent and his own limitations. Was not highly sought after in free agency (SB nation had him ranked as the 47th best free agent, behind the likes of Al-Farouq Aminu) or, to my knowledge, rumored to be linked with any other teams. The success of the Warriors that season (their first title) and, in particular, their "death lineup", was a clear signal to the entire league that small ball was the way of the immediate future. Somehow still managed a 5 year, $60MM deal.

[Imnos 2]

Pretty much yes.. If he does leave we could hopefully do a sign and trade with him (if not we really are screwed)..

As of now, if Boogie leaves we will have to fill the 5 and the SF position with trades and we dont have the assets for that...

Re-sign Boogie and use the MLE on Rondo, and all we have to fill is the SF position, which we could throw draft picks and Hill,Moore to aquire

So all this talk of we got leverage ain't true. Because if we low ball him he can get pissed and bounce. At that point he will take less out of a lack of loyalty. There is no question we need to give him the max. But he has to give us an out. Team option at some point.

[Mythrol]

I am aware. My point isn't that the NBA is somehow just allowing the Warriors to do something against the rules, they're not. The Warriors are within the bounds of the rules.

My point is that the rules are set up in such a way as to be easily exploited, and that this exploitation leads to insane levels of unbalance in the league, and there is no limit to it once it stops. Once it's up, and you've got the bird rights on all your guys, you can keep resigning them as long as you want to, as long as you're willing to pay taxes, and as you said, once you've done that you get players willing to come in for the minimum which means you never need to use exceptions again which means once you're in, you're in, and you don't ever have to leave. You can just spend spend spend.


At this point just let the Warriors all buy a ring from the league in pre-season, and we can all play an actual season for second place. It's pathetic.

Your entire 1st paragraph was asking how the Warriors are able to go over the hard cap so it wasn't clear at all that you were aware of why they were able to.

I guess I'm not mad because the Pelicans can do the same thing this summer and set themselves up for the future. Yes a hard cap that every team has to stay under would be best because just look at how many different teams make the playoffs in the NFL.

However due to the players association in the NBA I don't believe we will ever get something like that. They like it exactly how it is.

[soggymoss]

So all this talk of we got leverage ain't true. Because if we low ball him he can get pissed and bounce. At that point he will take less out of a lack of loyalty. There is no question we need to give him the max. But he has to give us an out. Team option at some point.

I dont see how anyone can say we have all the leverage and Boogie has none... Someone will throw a max at him in FA quick, the only questions should be if we give him a 5 year max or will he accept a 3 year max... The money shouldnt even be a question, he will get max money, the years should be the only negotiating...

If we lose Boogie, we are pretty much screwed, unless we go into next season with Hill as our SF and make a trade for another 5... AD wont play the 5 all season, or at least he wont be happy about it

[Pelicanidae]

Your entire 1st paragraph was asking how the Warriors are able to go over the hard cap so it wasn't clear at all that you were aware of why they were able to.

I guess I'm not mad because the Pelicans can do the same thing this summer and set themselves up for the future. Yes a hard cap that every team has to stay under would be best because just look at how many different teams make the playoffs in the NFL.

However due to the players association in the NBA I don't believe we will ever get something like that. They like it exactly how it is.

My ''How the HELL is this allowed' was less of a real question and more of a rhetoric ''By what logic is this systematic arrangement considered in any way sane'' way.

You're right though, the players association would never allow it.

[England_Hornet]

Within that original Instagram post... where the chick asks why he unfollowed and he said... cos I’m grown... there’s a whole series of replies and someone just writes ‘OFF’ which omri caspi ‘likes’ ... so I’m guessing he’s off and caspi knows about it =|

[Mythrol]

Within that original Instagram post... where the chick asks why he unfollowed and he said... cos I’m grown... there’s a whole series of replies and someone just writes ‘OFF’ which omri caspi ‘likes’ ... so I’m guessing he’s off and caspi knows about it =|

I don't even know what off means in that context.