Boogie is gone

[Tinman]

N.O.Bronco -- Did you actually say that a team will take a 30 MILLION dollar 4 year FLYER on an injured (catastrophic injury) 28 yr old #5 ? Now thats funny, I dont care who you are.

[bahmamamba]

So we didn't need him in the gsw series? Yeah you're right we had them on the ropes with out him and why would pg come here if boogie is gone? And you're pretending as if we didn't play a lot of bad teams in that stretch with out him

How is 25-14 without Boogie considered rebuilding? AD is NOT a child. If Dell says= Hey AD, we just signed Paul George & made a trade for Andre Drummond. You guys act as though AD is still playing in a sandbox & is gonna get mad because his buddy had to leave.

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[soggymoss]

He is NOT the best center in the league. He CANT PLAY & you dont know when he will be able to play or be 100% (if ever) As far as speculation- lol- thats all you do.You are speculating that AD is NOT ok with Boogie leaving. AD wants to WIN! Period.

AD also refuses to play the 5 full time, which he would be forced into if we dont re-sign Boogie..

As far as your scenario above, that's pretty much impossible...

We could sign Boogie and trade for PG, but we cant sign PG outright..

If we would do a S&T for PG, then that ties up our assets where we have nothing left to trade for anyone else, and AD is now po'ed because he has to play the 5..


I dont know when DC kicked your dog, but you should let it go.. This team is way better with him than without him..

With him, we take GS to 6 games easy IMO

[Tinman]

Actually, Boogie holds ALOT of leverage..

If we let him walk, we only have the MLE to try to sign someone (Rondo), and then we are forced into signing minimum contract type guys, or trying to trade for people..

We can re-sign Boogie using his bird rights, still re-sign rondo using the MLE, and then fill out the rest of the roster with minimum type guys, and STILL have all our pieces to make trades...

We are way better with Boogie than without him

We are at 97,000,000 ! Okafor, Miller, Ajinca are simple contracts to dispose of. Thats 10,000,000. They will also try their darndest to dump Hill. If need be Moore's contract is very eye pleasing to other teams. so, the MLE argument seems a bit myopic.

[Tinman]

AD also refuses to play the 5 full time, which he would be forced into if we dont re-sign Boogie..

As far as your scenario above, that's pretty much impossible...

We could sign Boogie and trade for PG, but we cant sign PG outright..

If we would do a S&T for PG, then that ties up our assets where we have nothing left to trade for anyone else, and AD is now po'ed because he has to play the 5..


I dont know when DC kicked your dog, but you should let it go.. This team is way better with him than without him..

With him, we take GS to 6 games easy IMO

Come on,man.Its a hypothetical.Do you truly believe that if we dont re-sign Boogie that Dell isnt going to address the #5? Goodness. Deflection is so unattractive.

[Tinman]

So we didn't need him in the gsw series? Yeah you're right we had them on the ropes with out him and why would pg come here if boogie is gone? And you're pretending as if we didn't play a lot of bad teams in that stretch with out him

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We were 27-21 with him & played the East early in the season. That argument is dumbfounding.How is everyone else doing against GS? I thought we beat GS w/out Boogie. TWICE. No? I never said we had them on the ropes, but I certainly dont remember beating GS WITH BOOGIE. Do you?

[da ThRONe]

Yeah he's probably gone. This was always going to be a tricky situation and the injury made it impossible. Hopefully we can negotiate a S&T with so little teams with significant cap space.

[bahmamamba]

Lol, so that's it? That's your argument for being better with out him lol okay obviously with that logic this isn't going to go anywhere good day sir lol

We were 27-21 with him & played the East early in the season. That argument is dumbfounding.How is everyone else doing against GS? I thought we beat GS w/out Boogie. TWICE. No? I never said we had them on the ropes, but I certainly dont remember beating GS WITH BOOGIE. Do you?

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[All Metro]

I'm torn. If you dont sign Boogie then you have a huge hole at the 5. AD isn't playing 5 full time. Then we still need to upgrade at the 2 and 3.

[soggymoss]

We are at 97,000,000 ! Okafor, Miller, Ajinca are simple contracts to dispose of. Thats 10,000,000. They will also try their darndest to dump Hill. If need be Moore's contract is very eye pleasing to other teams. so, the MLE argument seems a bit myopic.

No, we are at 100,310,674, with the cap set at 101 million..

So in your scenario we dump our entire bench to get 1 player...

I'm glad you dont run the team

[Tinman]

Lol, so that's it? That's your argument for being better with out him lol okay obviously with that logic this isn't going to go anywhere good day sir lol

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What dont you get? You are so interested in typing, you dont pay attention. I NEVER said we were going to be better with or without Boogie. If Boogie was Healthy, I'd sign him yesterday. HES NOT, for godsake. Thats why the discussion is being had. I have NO IDEA if we are going to be better without him next year. --> Because I dont know what other moves we are going to make. If I can get someone like Tobias Harris and an athletic #5 that can run the court and patrol the middle & sign Wayne Ellinton ish player, then Boogie is expendable. I just received 3 players of need for what an injured Cousins wouldve cost me. On the other hand-If we let Boogie walk & Demps lays an egg, then DUH. But, you have to stop inserting your thoughts & laying claim on me.

[Tinman]

No, we are at 100,310,674, with the cap set at 101 million..

So in your scenario we dump our entire bench to get 1 player...

I'm glad you dont run the team

we are just under 97,000,000, So, you consider Ajinca & Okafor legit bench players? Thats kicks. Salary cap jumps to 108 in 2019. Salary manipulations are simple. So, the 101 isn't relevant to me. So, this 1 player that you speak of. Where did I say that? 96,951.000

[bahmamamba]

Oh okay buddy 🖒

What dont you get? You are so interested in typing, you dont pay attention. I NEVER said we were going to be better with or without Boogie. If Boogie was Healthy, I'd sign him yesterday. HES NOT, for godsake. Thats why the discussion is being had. I have NO IDEA if we are going to be better without him next year. --> Because I dont know what other moves we are going to make. If I can get someone like Tobias Harris and an athletic #5 that can run the court and patrol the middle & sign Wayne Ellinton ish player, then Boogie is expendable. I just received 3 players of need for what an injured Cousins wouldve cost me. On the other hand-If we let Boogie walk & Demps lays an egg, then DUH. But, you have to stop inserting your thoughts & laying claim on me.

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[Tinman]

Oh okay buddy ��

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Now, thats the answer I expected.

[soggymoss]

we are just under 97,000,000, So, you consider Ajinca & Okafor legit bench players? Thats kicks. Salary cap jumps to 108 in 2019. Salary manipulations are simple. So, the 101 isn't relevant to me. So, this 1 player that you speak of. Where did I say that?

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-orlea...cans/cap/2018/

100,310,674...

Okafor is a minimum contract player, so for what he does yes hes good bench depth that could give us some minutes and spell guys..

To dump Ajinca, you would have to include draft capital at minimum...

To add Hill to that Ajinca dump (in other words to dump Hill also), that would require us attaching Moore and at least a 1st, and taking back some bad contracts as well..

So now we are sitting at around 90-100 million tied up in cap space, have obliterated our bench and draft capital, and have absolutely nothing to show for it

Edit: You said "How is 25-14 without Boogie considered rebuilding? AD is NOT a child. If Dell says= Hey AD, we just signed Paul George & made a trade for Andre Drummond. You guys act as though AD is still playing in a sandbox & is gonna get mad because his buddy had to leave."

So you obliterated your bench to sign PG (who we wouldn't even have enough money for btw), and have nothing left to trade for a Drummond type..

You must play to much 2k

[bahmamamba]

I'm sure it is Aristotle; )

Now, thats the answer I expected.

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[Tinman]

Wow, thanks for the compliment, but I just based my expectations on past interaction. Nothing philosophical about it.

[Tinman]

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-orlea...cans/cap/2018/

100,310,674...

Okafor is a minimum contract player, so for what he does yes hes good bench depth that could give us some minutes and spell guys..

To dump Ajinca, you would have to include draft capital at minimum...

To add Hill to that Ajinca dump (in other words to dump Hill also), that would require us attaching Moore and at least a 1st, and taking back some bad contracts as well..

So now we are sitting at around 90-100 million tied up in cap space, have obliterated our bench and draft capital, and have absolutely nothing to show for it

Edit: You said "How is 25-14 without Boogie considered rebuilding? AD is NOT a child. If Dell says= Hey AD, we just signed Paul George & made a trade for Andre Drummond. You guys act as though AD is still playing in a sandbox & is gonna get mad because his buddy had to leave."

So you obliterated your bench to sign PG (who we wouldn't even have enough money for btw), and have nothing left to trade for a Drummond type..

You must play to much 2k

Did You NOT see Andre Drummonds name in the post? I'll assume it was an honest mistake.
Quit with the 2k references. OLD NEWS.

[soggymoss]

Did You NOT see Andre Drummonds name in the post? I'll assume it was an honest mistake.
Quit with the 2k references. OLD NEWS.

Ummm yes I did see his name in the post, hence why i said "you will have nothing left to trade for a Drummond type..

I just call it like i see it..

[Tinman]

Ummm yes I did see his name in the post, hence why i said "you will have nothing left to trade for a Drummond type..

I just call it like i see it..

Just as we had Nothing to trade for Mirotic, right? Oh wait, we had Asik. Huh. We have 7 million dollars in Non guaranteed contracts & Ajinca with an expiring. Again, your view seems really overly myopic. Salary manipulations are done routinely. But, I'm guessing that I'll be seeing your name in the Pelicans Guide soon. Man, you sure know a lot about everything. And there is no doubt that you know ALL there is to know about this Salary Cap & EVERY possible trade scenario feasible. After all, thats why you are on this forum. BTW, Okafor hit is over 2,400,000

[soggymoss]

Just as we had Nothing to trade for Mirotic, right? Oh wait, we had Asik. Huh. We have 7 million dollars in Non guaranteed contracts & Ajinca with an expiring. Again, your view seems really overly myopic. Salary manipulations are done routinely. But, I'm guessing that I'll be seeing your name in the Pelicans Guide soon. Man, you sure know a lot about everything. And there is no doubt that you know ALL there is to know about this Salary Cap & EVERY possible trade scenario feasible. After all, thats why you are on this forum.

Yeah, we traded Asik and a 1st for Mirotic, who was someone that demanded a trade..

What could we give for Drummond? It would take Hill,Moore, and Ajinca to match his salary.. Then we would have to include at least a 1st to get the trade completed..

Now we are sitting right back where we were before cap wise, except now we are down a pivotal bench player, and we still only have our MLE and around 3 million in cap space (we would save about 2 million acquiring Drummond)..

So what would your saving grace be then, since we have traded away everything, and still dont have a legit starting SF or PG (which we could use the MLE to re-sign Rondo)

[Tinman]

Yeah, we traded Asik and a 1st for Mirotic, who was someone that demanded a trade..

What could we give for Drummond? It would take Hill,Moore, and Ajinca to match his salary.. Then we would have to include at least a 1st to get the trade completed..

Now we are sitting right back where we were before cap wise, except now we are down a pivotal bench player, and we still only have our MLE and around 3 million in cap space (we would save about 2 million acquiring Drummond)..

So what would your saving grace be then, since we have traded away everything, and still dont have a legit starting SF or PG (which we could use the MLE to re-sign Rondo)

I stated earlier that the names were hypothetical. You Know,like Player A & B. Wow. It was a post emphasizing that if we let Boogie walk & while doing so, made our team more competitive due to the moves Dell makes, then AD would/should have NO problems with it. You conflate one post with another & then concentrate on the mixer instead the liquor in the drink. CONTEXTUAL knowledge is pretty important. The names in the scenario werent relevant, it was the outcome that mattered. You remind me of someone else that USED to post here. Welcome back to the bandwagon.!

[Pelicanidae]

Ignoring all of the smoke-blowing, I'd like Boogie back. I think if we try to play too sweet and lowball him continually, then we lose him. I also think immediately offering him the full five year max is a mistake. I'm not saying the 5 year max should be off the table in every possible scenario, but it shouldn't be a starting point in negotiations. I want him back, but there are factors he has to realistically take into account: including who he could possibly go to.

He could stay with us, and be pretty sure of another playoffs trip, with some of his best friends, and good money.
He could try and go to Washington, except they have no cap so it would have to be trade wizardry, forgive the pun.
He could go to the Suns, like people have been suggesting he might, in which case his playoff hopes are dead.
He could push for a Celtics move, but I doubt they want him.
He could try for the 76ers, who have the cap, but almost definitely don't want him.
He could try the Lakers, who also have the cap, but he's not their priority and they won't be spending on him if LBJ or PG13 are real options.

We are obviously the best option for him, in terms of both money but also team needs, fit, and personnel. He knows AD, he knows Jrue, he knows Rondo, he knows Gentry, and he gets along with all of them. I think unless his only concern is money, and he immediately gets offered the max by someplace like Phoenix, he's back.

[Tinman]

Ignoring all of the smoke-blowing, I'd like Boogie back. I think if we try to play too sweet and lowball him continually, then we lose him. I also think immediately offering him the full five year max is a mistake. I'm not saying the 5 year max should be off the table in every possible scenario, but it shouldn't be a starting point in negotiations. I want him back, but there are factors he has to realistically take into account: including who he could possibly go to.

He could stay with us, and be pretty sure of another playoffs trip, with some of his best friends, and good money.
He could try and go to Washington, except they have no cap so it would have to be trade wizardry, forgive the pun.
He could go to the Suns, like people have been suggesting he might, in which case his playoff hopes are dead.
He could push for a Celtics move, but I doubt they want him.
He could try for the 76ers, who have the cap, but almost definitely don't want him.
He could try the Lakers, who also have the cap, but he's not their priority and they won't be spending on him if LBJ or PG13 are real options.

We are obviously the best option for him, in terms of both money but also team needs, fit, and personnel. He knows AD, he knows Jrue, he knows Rondo, he knows Gentry, and he gets along with all of them. I think unless his only concern is money, and he immediately gets offered the max by someplace like Phoenix, he's back.

I notice that, in your opinion, which is also my opinion-> He realistically doesnt have too many options. For a team to give up pieces or 30 mill or long term deal to a damaged good (That will probably heal, but who knows when) is a bridge to far, especially for contenders. bout right?

[soggymoss]

I stated earlier that the names were hypothetical. You Know,like Player A & B. Wow. It was a post emphasizing that if we let Boogie walk & while doing so, made our team more competitive due to the moves Dell makes, then AD would/should have NO problems with it. You conflate one post with another & then concentrate on the mixer instead the liquor in the drink. CONTEXTUAL knowledge is pretty important. The names in the scenario werent relevant, it was the outcome that mattered. You remind me of someone else that USED to post here. Welcome back to the bandwagon.!

If I were bandwagon I'd be on the Warriors forums..

Who could we realistically trade for and still acquire PG, or a starting quality SF, without re-signing Boogie??

Would you rather a team of: (mc is min contract)
Rondo/Clark/Jackson
Holiday/Liggins/MC
PG(opt in or s&t)/Miller/MC
AD/Mirotic
Boogie/Okafor/Diallo

Or:
Rondo/Clark/Jackson
Holiday/Liggins/MC
PG/Miller/MC
AD/Mirotic
MC/Okafor/Diallo

I really see no way we can significantly improve this team w/o re-signing Boogie, then using Moore,Hill,Ajinca as trade pieces to acquire a legit SF, such as PG or Kwahi