Originally Posted by luckyman
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I just hate Harden's style of basketball. Yes, he is a "great" player but his entire game is built around flops and whatever he can do to skirt around the rules. Yeah, it works because they can't make rule changes fast enough but it's not fun basketball.
No one outside of Rockets fans watch Harden JUMP INTO A DEFENDER while wildly hurling the ball toward the basket and says, "Yeah that's the way the game was meant to be played." No one outside of Rockets fans watches Harden pretend to get hit and crumble to the ground when the defender doesn't touch him and says, "Just how Jordan did it."
If there is any clear indication that the NBA isn't satisfied with how Harden plays just look at the rule change this summer. All last season Harden had a gimmick where he would run around the screen setter and if the defender tried running through the screen Harden would immediately stop on the other side and jump into the defenders outstretched arm. Sometimes pinning it to the screen setter and the defender would get hit with the foul call. 3 free shots. The NBA changed how they called fouls on defenders this summer because Harden was exploiting a rule that the NBA did not intent.
Any team other than Golden State or the Rockets and I don't care who wins. Heck if I had to choose I'd rather Golden State because even if they did make a super team, at least they play basketball.
Yep, they do, and they also travel when they do it. AD occasionally does it, maybe one a game or so (especially when he's settling for 20ft jumpers), although he seems to get called for travels relatively often.
The difference is, is that Harden does it about 4 times a game, and it is never called. I have literally seen that called once, I think, in about 100 games I've watched with Harden involved.
Basketball.
What he said.
Well here come the fouls for the warriors
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So Harden is just faking out the entire NBA except people who don't like him or his style? That is absolutly not a travel and anybody who has played basketball knows it. In full speed it no doubt looks like a travel but when you follow it closely it's not.
Yea most people that have played basketball use this move or something similar. It has now become a problem because people hate Harden, his style, or whatever. AD does this same exact step back all the time.
I don't care if it was a travel or not. Look at everything else that he does that simply is not fun to watch. Him taking 5 extra steps backwards with some weird shuffle to skirt the rule is the tip of the iceberg on crap he pulls.
It's a travel. It's already been explained why it's a travel. You're free to disagree if you like, everybody sees things through their own lens, but saying it's not a travel won't convince anybody who has used their own eyes and seen that it does, in fact, appear that it's a travel.
The fact is that the NBA isn't 'faked out', but it is selectively called. It's always been the case that star players get much more leeway than others. That's why Harden can travel like Phileas Fogg, it's why Lebron frequently travels, it's why Kyrie gets away with carrying the ball nearly every possession, it's why Draymond Green gets away with all of his nonsense, and it's why Jordan got away with that famous push-off in game 6 of the 1998 finals. The fact is, if you build a reputation off of legitimate skills (as all of those players have/had) then you get allowed more leeway when you do break (or bend) the rules because your name has become synonymous with sales, and the NBA is a profit-motivated company.
That's just how business works; if they called the most talented players the way they called the average player, then there would be a lot of dissatisfaction among the fanbase. Therefore, the most talented players get favourable calls and that includes ignoring blatant travels with alarming regularity.
I haven't mentioned what else he does once. This was about the video posted of Harden. People can hate him and his style all they want I'm not some Harden fan but again it's not a travel. Everyone has a gripe or complaint about all of the great NBA players if they don't "like" them. But yea the Rockets don't play good basketball yet they have the best record in the NBA with the MVP of the league. Sorry but I'll take the Pels playing bad basketball or whatever that means anyway of the week if it produces the best record and NBA MVP.
So basically every good player just gets away with whatever they want? You sound like a serious Harden hater acting like he is only good because he cheats or whatever your point is. I'm gonna go with just about every ref in the NBA not calling this along with hearing the opinion of a few NBA greats explaining why this isn't a travel. The thing is this call isn't an opinion it is a rule and what he does is perfectly legal. It's even in slow motion so people can see why since in full speed it's near impossible for the untrained eye. Just about any good NBA player that can create their own shot including our own in AD has this same exact shot.
Right. I'm going to make one more response to you, and then after this I'm done, because I'm entirely certain you are intent on either not reading what I've actually written at all, or misrepresenting it if you have.
I have already said multiple times in this thread that Harden is legitimately talented. I am not 'acting like he is only good because he cheats'. In literally the same post you are responding to here I said that these reputations are built off of legitimate skills. Earlier in the thread, I said that even if his travels and pushoffs, etc, were called he'd still average 25 because he has those skills. So for you to pretend that I'm 'acting like he is only good because he cheats' is a blatant misrepresentation of what I've said multiple times.
The move in question was, in my view, a travel according to the rules. This is because after his feet were both on the ground, he took another step back to behind the three point line. If you choose to agree with the point of view that those first too feet came down simultaneously, then it is not a travel. However, to me, it appears that the feet came down separately and therefore constitute the two steps. If I were the ref, I would have called a travel. Some refs would not. Talented players know exactly where the borderline is, and how far they can push it; they know that they will be given a degree of leeway based on the fact that they have paid their dues and earned their respect. I gave multiple examples of other players doing this, including two players who are generally considered the best two players to ever play the game (including by me, so it's obviously not a case of hating, as you seem to be so adamant that it is).
Now, it seems to me (and to multiple other people, including ex players, since that appears to be your favourite be-all-end-all source) that Harden in particular is aware of all of these borders and takes a particular pleasure in pushing them until breaking point. Whether you have an issue with that or not is your prerogative and has absolutely nothing to do with me. To me, and to others (like Mythrol) that frequent border-pushing moves the focus away from actually playing good basketball and more into a game to see how far the rules can be played with before the refs decide you're just being the NBA equivalent of a troll.
I have already said that yes, other people use that move occasionally, including AD (I even specified when he tends to make that move) but no one does it with the same frequency as Harden; to the point where that kind of stepback 3 is his signature move.
Either read what I've said and respond to it, or don't @ me at all. If you're just going to imagine responses I haven't made so that you can accuse me of being a 'serious Harden hater', then don't bother. It's not worth the time you spend writing it and it's not worth the time I spend reading it.
How is that not a travel? It's, at best, three steps after the gather. Plain as day to see. Would be called in any other league around the world. NBA let's it go because of reasons
LoL.. why do people get all in their feels when someone doesn't agree with them? Somehow every basketball fan knows the rule book front to back yet NBA refs know jack lol. NBA refs have conspired and are allowing Harden to break the rules blatantly every game multiple times.. The earth is also flat..
Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 04-16-2018 at 11:53 PM.
Also to be clear, I've never seen AD do what Harden did on that play. A lot of players will pick up their dribble take two steps back and shoot. This is within the rules and AD does it too. Harden did not pick up his dribble take two steps back and shoot. At best he shuffles both feet twice after his last dribble to get behind the 3pt line.
There is no argument that AD does the same thing. Ever.
LoL ok... back to basketball...
Draymond Green is hilarious!!
Klay sure is fun to watch shoot the ball! As long as it isn't against the Pels!
Not good if he goes into round 2 against us on fire tho
He probably won't, but Curry will be back by then so we'll have bigger things to worry about
The travels don't bother me as much since it's the NBA and they do that......the pushoffs Harden does (and Lillard in game one)....that's what gets me going. Hrrrrrng. And Jrue is too honest a player to do it. Not that he would get the beneficial calls.
So the Spurs would have to do something miraculous for us not to be playing GSW next. If any org can pull it off, it's SAS....but I'm not seeing it.
The one time I'm pulling for Manu and he fails me.
Last edited by msusousaphone; 04-17-2018 at 12:37 AM.
Good positive energy.
But also, yo mama's fat.
Barkley is the man! Definitely one of my all time favorites hosts on a sports show.
Wow, Guardian. So any ex player can be a host and they're just your greatest host of all time.
Kidding.
LoL to clarify I said "my" favorite which was a clear attempt at showing it was an opinion and not fact! I was gonna call him an analyst but Barkley would cuss anyone out who put him in that category!
I know! That's why you the man!
Anybody here who thinks they are a basketball expert.. go watch Kobes new show called detail.. you will realize you think you know more then you do.. or you will still believe you know it all and Kobe is the fool!!
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