Pelicans vs Lakers game thread

[23speedkillz]

You can't bash Rondo for his limited shooting ability and turn around and defend zo for his. Rondo is a better playmaker even at his age. Good rebounder for a pg and has a far superior bb iq. And let's be honest this team is frankly better with Rondo at point than we were with Jrue. He makes Jrue and everyone else around him better. Zo might very well become a good player one day but expectations were to high for the kid and he is not the second coming of Magic. If he becomes another version of Rondo than he will be fine but he isn't on that level just yet.

[GuardianAngel25]

As Mythrol said, he plays on a team filled with sharpshooters, and is given a ton of minutes and full control over the offense. Any reasonable passer would be able to average a lot of assists, and he is a reasonable passer.

What you seem to be glossing over is exactly how bad his shooting is. Ricky Rubio is a bad shooter. Russell Westbrook is inefficient from the floor. Lonzo makes them both look like Deandre Jordan in terms of efficiency; he's all time worst levels of bad.

Now, will that change in his career? Very possibly, but it's not likely unless his shot gets changed, and his coach is on record saying they're not going to change it.

It's not cause he's bricked up some threes against us. It's cause he bricks up tons of threes against everyone all the time and has WOAT shot selection.

And yes, he'd be getting this criticism even without his dad; he was picked 2nd overall in the draft above multiple players who are looking like they're way better than him. Of course he's getting heat.

lol a team of sharp shooters!? Please outside of Pope and Kuzma who on that team is a sharp shooter!? Those 2 are shooting 39% and 37% from 3 while Lopez is the 3rd best at 35% and nobody else being close. Oh but maybe Wear is the team of sharp shooters who has played a handful of games with a whopping 4 ppg lol. If that is a team full of sharpshooters at Lonzos disposal then his assists must double if he actually had a bunch of sharp shooters around him. If you wanna knock his game go ahead but using his assists like he just dumps the ball of to a bunch of Currys and Klays is a terrible argument. By the way the Lakers lead the NBA in points in the paint ahead of us at #2. That isn't because they are some great 3 point shooting team either.

[Pelicanidae]

lol a team of sharp shooters!? Please outside of Pope and Kuzma who on that team is a sharp shooter!? Those 2 are shooting 39% and 37% from 3 while Lopez is the 3rd best at 35% and nobody else being close. Oh but maybe Wear is the team of sharp shooters who has played a handful of games with a whopping 4 ppg lol. If that is a team full of sharpshooters at Lonzos disposal then his assists must double if he actually had a bunch of sharp shooters around him. If you wanna knock his game go ahead but using his assists like he just dumps the ball of to a bunch of Currys and Klays is a terrible argument. By the way the Lakers lead the NBA in points in the paint ahead of us at #2. That isn't because they are some great 3 point shooting team either.

Ingram shoots 38% from 3, and Hart (who is now injured but wasn't for most of the season) shot 39.7%. So yes, I'd be inclined to argue that they have a reasonable number of players who can hit the open three.

The problem is that you're not considering nuance. I say sharpshooter, you immediately say "a bunch of Currys and Klays". As if two of the best shooters of all time are the baseline for sharpshooters.

LA has basically 4 guys shooting about 40% from 3. Yes, I consider that to be ample shooting for a solid passer (which Lonzo is) to maximise.

[Mythrol]

LoL people are forgetting Lonzo just turned 20 years old! He's averaging 10/7/7 while playing very good defense. That is very solid numbers for a rookie and is one of the only players to have ever had that stat line as a rookie. Kid has very good court vision and makes some amazing passes. He might not ever be a good shooter but if he can just be an average shooting PG the kid has a very very bright future. If it wasn't for his dad he wouldn't be getting this criticism. His dad is always going to be a problem with his career and make his path tougher then other. I don't like Lonzo or the Big Baller Brand very much but acting like this kid isn't that good or going to be good because he bricked up some 3s against us is ridiculous.

None of that matters if his shot stays broken. Solid defense and good passing / rebounding makes him Elfrid Payton, a guy who just got traded for Peanuts.

Lonzo is over hyped and underachieving. His career is going to hinge on him fixing his shot or not. If he doesn't I could see him out of the league in 7 years or at least getting limited minutes while coming off the bench. How no one has slapped the ball out of his hand for 10 years and forced him to change that crazy shot is beyond me. The worst part is it's not just his jumper that's broken, he is below average to terrible from every range on the court, from layups all the way out to 3pt line.

He is a worse Ben Simmons, partly because Ben realizes his weakness is his jumper so he just goes to the hole and finishes at the rim at a crazy high rate. Lonzo actually thinks he is a jump shooter. Dude is averaging almost 6 3pt shots a game.

[msw2024]

Why are people defending Lonzo on this board.......Did you secretly want the Lakers to win that game? I don't care what Lonzo does in his career or in general. I hope he goes 1-12 every time we play them from now on. #PelsLife

[GuardianAngel25]

Ingram shoots 38% from 3, and Hart (who is now injured but wasn't for most of the season) shot 39.7%. So yes, I'd be inclined to argue that they have a reasonable number of players who can hit the open three.

The problem is that you're not considering nuance. I say sharpshooter, you immediately say "a bunch of Currys and Klays". As if two of the best shooters of all time are the baseline for sharpshooters.

LA has basically 4 guys shooting about 40% from 3. Yes, I consider that to be ample shooting for a solid passer (which Lonzo is) to maximise.

A reasonable number of guys that can hit a 3 is not being surrounded by a bunch of sharp shooters. If that is the case you can make an argument for every team in the NBA surrounding their PG with a bunch of sharp shooters and all he has to do is throw the ball to them. The Lakers again do not lead the NBA in points in the paint bevause they are some lethal 3 point shooting team. They are an average 3 point shooting team and no more. LA basically does not have 4 guys shooting 40% because they only have 1 guy in Read. You know how many teams in the NBA have a bunch of guys hovering from 34%-39% at the 3 point line? Every team in the NBA has a handful of guys like that. Again this is a poor argument to knock Lonzos assist per game because he has some guys who can hit 3s on his team lol.

[Rel11]

Why are people defending Lonzo on this board.......Did you secretly want the Lakers to win that game? I don't care what Lonzo does in his career or in general. I hope he goes 1-12 every time we play them from now on. #PelsLife

I like the guy. I usually root for him and Kuzma, just not against my Pels!

[Mythrol]

A reasonable number of guys that can hit a 3 is not being surrounded by a bunch of sharp shooters. If that is the case you can make an argument for every team in the NBA surrounding their PG with a bunch of sharp shooters and all he has to do is throw the ball to them. The Lakers again do not lead the NBA in points in the paint bevause they are some lethal 3 point shooting team. They are an average 3 point shooting team and no more. LA basically does not have 4 guys shooting 40% because they only have 1 guy in Read. You know how many teams in the NBA have a bunch of guys hovering from 34%-39% at the 3 point line? Every team in the NBA has a handful of guys like that. Again this is a poor argument to knock Lonzos assist per game because he has some guys who can hit 3s on his team lol.

The Lakers are a fast paced team who runs and attacks unset defenses. Also I'd argue that their style of play combined with their number of 3pt shooters is EXACTLY why they are able to score in the paint so well. This is also why Lonzo's assists are inflated. He's not breaking down defenses and hitting the open man as they rotate. He is not some passing savant. No more than Jrue isn't some savant. Even though over his career he has similar and better assist numbers to Lonzo.

None of this addresses Lonzo's biggest issue which is his broken shot. Until he fixes that he will be nothing better than average and have a shortened career.

[tthier2]

This is crazy how people are still defending lonzo. That is probably the second worst jumper in the league behind fultz and that's only because philly ruined his shot

[GuardianAngel25]

I like the guy. I usually root for him and Kuzma, just not against my Pels!

I don't like Lonzo but to act like the kid is some busy because of his shooting at 20 years old is hilarious. Those same people will give Diallo the benefit of improving and taking steps in his 2nd year. How Rondo makes everyone around him including Jrue and AD taking their game to the next level but Ball will be considered a bust if in his prime he is Rondo. Yet Lonzo is now a bust that can't ever be good and improve on 1 thing. Forget he plays the rest of the game at a very good level but only focus on his shot. People here would kill to have a 20 year old PG with a different name accross his jersey that has his skill set at 6'6. I don't like Lonzo at all and his shot is terrible but the kid has some serious talent.

Russ career average from 3 is 31%! Lonzo is shooting 30%! He's also averaging more assists and rebounds then Russ in his rookie year. Took Russ 7 years to average 7 rebounds per game in a season. He only has a career average of 8 assists per game while Lonzo is at 7 in his rookie season. I hate Lebron more then any player ever but will still admit he's one of the best basketball players of all time. I hate Lonzo as well and pretending like this kid isn't a potential star with a great skill set can't get over certain biases they have. For example the only reason he gets assists is because he just throws the ball around to a bunch of sharpshooters... How many rookies have put up 10/7/7..?..? Last post about Big Baller Brand for me! Go Pels!!

[UNO Gracias]

I hardly ever agree with GA on anything. If he says that the sky is blue I will argue with him that the sky is red. We don’t see eye to eye, but in this issue he is right and everyone else is extremely wrong. Wrong like as if I asked you what the center of the universe was, and you answered “Uranus”. No. You’re wrong, he is right.

I am not a Lonzo apologist, but the kid has come into the NBA with more pressure on him than any player since AD. He got to LA and people wanted him to be an in his prime Magic in year one, and leading the Lakers to the title by year two. The kid hasn’t lived up to the Magic billing, but he has been a fine player. Every opponent gives him their best because they want to improve their image, and he takes it. He holds his own, fails, treads water, whatever, but he doesn’t back down. Most rookies would have backed down by now, but Lonzo is taking pressure off of Kuzma and Heart and the rest of the young Lakers, and making things easy for others. He is quite impressive in that regard. He looks to create before he looks for his own shot.

Yeah, his shot is ugly as sin, and it’s not even a consistent shot. One day he is shooting like Shawn Marrian, the next he has the form of Shawn Bradley, and the next he is smooth like a Devin Booker. His shot will get better. He will spend time this offseason on getting his strength up, and working on that shot. He and the Lakers will make that priority one. If anything he reminds me of a young Jason Kidd. Kidd could do it all, but they called him “Ason” kid b cause he didn’t have a “J”. Kidd improved his shooting stroke and added a jump shot to his game later on in his career, but hardly any of these kids come out the game like Lebron, so why are we expecting Lonzo to be better than even a guy like Rondo who has been in the league for 10+ years, and played at a high level? This makes no sense comparing a rookie to a seasoned vet.

In the end I think a lot of people are scared of Lonzo. If he sucks it up then yeah, jokes on him and his dad, but if he has a solid/ all star career nobody will ever hear the end of it.

[Mythrol]

No one is calling Lonzo a bust yet. We are saying if his shot doesn't get fixed, he will be.

He's also entirely different from Russ because Russ finishes at the rim very well. There isn't a single spot on the court that Lonzo doesn't shoot bad from. Lonzo doesn't have the handles of Russ to be able to take someone off the dribble and finish. Russ also knew his weakness was his jumpshot, which is why he took less than 2 3pters a game until his 4th season. Lonzo, again, is averaging just under 6 3pt shots in his 1st season. Why is that? Because he isn't elite enough to take someone off the dribble and defense slacks off him to dare him to shoot. Russ also has the right attitude to make himself great something Lonzo has never shown.

There's also the fact that Russ came into the league 10 years ago and a lot has changed since then. How is Lonzo any different from Elfrid Payton?!?! A slightly better rebounder due to his size but otherwise remarkable similar. And what has Payton done?

People act like "all" Lonzo has to do is fix his shot. Do you realize how hard that is to do, Especially one as broken as Lonzo's? Elfrid Payton was a rookie took that "just needs to fix his shot". There's dozens of Rookies every year that all they need to do is "fix their shot", and how many actually do it? What makes Lonzo so special that he will fix that broken shot?

Finally, people are willing to give Diallo a chance for multiple reasons. 1) He was a 2nd round pick not the 2nd overall pick. 2) His play when he's gotten on the court has been overall actually good. 3) He didn't have a mouthpiece that makes him hate able.

It's year one so we give him some time, but let's not pretend that his 1st season has been anything other than a disappointment.

[Pelicanidae]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[UNO Gracias]

Here look at Jason Kidd for inspiration.

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../kiddja01.html

[Mythrol]

Here look at Jason Kidd for inspiration.

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../kiddja01.html

Did Kidd have an absolutely broken shot like Lonzo? I can't remember. Looking at his FT % it looks like it wasn't that broken since he shot 70% his rookie year, well above Lonzo's 46%.That's why comparing Lonzo to one of the greatest PGs ever who played in an entirely different generation and in a totally different style of NBA is probably not the best thing to do.

For every one Kidd there is probably 5 dozen Elfrid Payton's. I know they said they weren't going to touch his shot but he's going to be a terrible shooter his entire career if they don't change it.

[UNO Gracias]

He needs to improve his shot, but then that’s really the biggest and only thing he needs to work on. His vision is great, and he is moving the ball and rebounding, stealing, etc. very well and it will only improve. Everyone minus a few great shooters are constantly in the lab working on their shot.

What he needs to do is go the Thunder Dan Marjlie route and take a thousand shots a day. I remember listening to a few of his interviews when he played with the Suns, and he said that is what helped improve his accuracy. You can have an ugly looking shot, it just needs to hit the bottom of the net. Shawn Marion is someone I think of when I think of an ugly yet accurate shot. Just get in the gym and do a thousand shots a day. He is dedicated enough to do it.

[Mythrol]

He needs to improve his shot, but then that’s really the biggest and only thing he needs to work on. His vision is great, and he is moving the ball and rebounding, stealing, etc. very well and it will only improve. Everyone minus a few great shooters are constantly in the lab working on their shot.

What he needs to do is go the Thunder Dan Marjlie route and take a thousand shots a day. I remember listening to a few of his interviews when he played with the Suns, and he said that is what helped improve his accuracy. You can have an ugly looking shot, it just needs to hit the bottom of the net. Shawn Marion is someone I think of when I think of an ugly yet accurate shot. Just get in the gym and do a thousand shots a day. He is dedicated enough to do it.

You make it sound so easy when you say it like that. Care to explain why every other non shooter hasn't done the same thing? Is Elfrid Payton's work ethic just bad and that's why he hasn't improved?

Lonzo's shot changing or not is the difference between him being a bench player or possibly out of the league by the end of his 2nd contract or him being an All Star.

[AusPel]

You make it sound so easy when you say it like that. Care to explain why every other non shooter hasn't done the same thing? Is Elfrid Payton's work ethic just bad and that's why he hasn't improved?

Lonzo's shot changing or not is the difference between him being a bench player or possibly out of the league by the end of his 2nd contract or him being an All Star.

Lonzo with a tecnically sound shot that goes in a lot is an all star

He can't bully ball like Simmons but he can finesse a lot besides his shot

[Mythrol]

Lonzo with a tecnically sound shot that goes in a lot is an all star

He can't bully ball like Simmons but he can finesse a lot besides his shot

Yes that's what I'm saying. With a shot he will be really good. Without it, he won't. The difference is people who believe the hype and that he will improve his shot vs people who are skeptical due to how broken it is.

Everyone should ask themselves this: Would you trade Donovan Mitchell from Utah straight up for Lonzo? Of course not. Why not? Lonzo has better assist and rebound numbers than Mitchell... Oh that's right, because your guard needs to be able to break down defenses and score effectively.

Would you trade Devin Booker straight up for Lonzo Ball? Of course not. Why not though?

It all circles back to the same thing. Either his shot improves or he will always be considered a bust.

[GuardianAngel25]

Only reason Lonzo gets assists is because he throws the ball to a bunch of sharp shooters.. that was literally the argument against him.. people will reach for anything at times while defending another player like Rondo just to make their case. Comical

[Mythrol]

Only reason Lonzo gets assists is because he throws the ball to a bunch of sharp shooters.. that was literally the argument against him.. people will reach for anything at times while defending another player like Rondo just to make their case. Comical

So you're just ignoring my posts to continue pretending there's no valid argument against Lonzo?

You know what's comical? The biggest Rondo hater on the forum is the biggest Lonzo supporter here. Talk about irony since Lonzo is a worse Rondo atm.

But he's only 20 so he has "potential"!!!

[GuardianAngel25]

So you're just ignoring my posts to continue pretending there's no valid argument against Lonzo?

You know what's comical? The biggest Rondo hater on the forum is the biggest Lonzo supporter here. Talk about irony since Lonzo is a worse Rondo atm.

But he's only 20 so he has "potential"!!!

LoL biggest Rondo hater? I'm a Rondo fan just not in our starting lineup. Rondo also is not the same player he once was he was very good! Cause your arguments are just as poor as "he only gets assists because he's surrounded by sharp shooters".. I hate Lonzo but the kid is a potential star. Not worth arguing over and over with one of the more ignorant posters here when not agreed with. You can keep wasting your time on Lonzo lol.. I'm out!!

[Mythrol]

LoL biggest Rondo hater? I'm a Rondo fan just not in our starting lineup. Rondo also is not the same player he once was he was very good! Cause your arguments are just as poor as "he only gets assists because he's surrounded by sharp shooters".. I hate Lonzo but the kid is a potential star. Not worth arguing over and over with one of the more ignorant posters here when not agreed with. You can keep wasting your time on Lonzo lol.. I'm out!!

How are we supposed to have a conversation on the subject if you willfully present a grossly wrong interpretation of what my argument against Lonzo is and choose to ignore all the points I've made against him?

You're specifically stating that me claiming his assists are overrated as the reason I think Lonzo is bad when I've been VERY clear it's his shooting that is the reason.

The ONLY defense you have for Lonzo is his magical "potential". Something that many players never hit.

So I pose the question to you: Would you trade Devin Booker or Donovan Mitchell straight up for Lonzo?

[UNO Gracias]

I’m a Mitchell fan, so I am biased, but asking if you would take Booker over Ball, what kind of question is that?

[Mythrol]

I’m a Mitchell fan, so I am biased, but asking if you would take Booker over Ball, what kind of question is that?

So you would take Mitchell over Ball. Why?

My point was, people were arguing "oh look lonzo gets rebounds and assists he's actually good" but when presented with the option of trading someone who is mainly a scorer that doesn't rebound or assist as well as Lonzo, people would still pick the guy who is a guard that can break down the defense and score. Rebounds and assists are nice but in the new NBA a guard MUST be able to score efficiently or he's not going to be a starter.