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Thread: Chicago Fan Board - Pels draft pick

  1. #26
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Have to give it to dell I mean it took awhile but he seems to finally be an average gm and maybe getting to above average with some of the moves he's made

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  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by PelsFan2313 View Post
    By that logic, all trades require luck. In order to make a trade, you need the opportunity to make a trade. If you were going to single out a trade on the basis of luck, I would point out the Boogie trade.

    The Boogie trade was "lucky" from the perspective that we were dealing with an incompetent GM and their organization's infatuation with Buddy. At the same time, credit needs to be given to Dell for taking advantage of the opportunity and negotiating the asking price down from 2 first round picks to 1 first and 2 second round picks.
    I don’t give Dell credit for Boogie. Sac didn’t want him and other teams didn’t wanna gamble on Boogie because of a) his contract situation and b) his attitude. From Dell’s perspective it was a no brainer because this market was never going to get a talent like Boogie via free agency. If Sac was dumb enough to give him away for Buddy, you had to take him. Plus, it’s going to help keep AD which in turn will help him keep his job. I do give him credit for putting the pieces together to make the deal happen. The trade though was pretty much handed to him on a silver platter. He does however deserve props for Mirotic b/c he was a hot commodity and that trade came out of nowhere.
    Last edited by UptownFuz504; 03-07-2018 at 06:49 PM.
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  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by bahmamamba View Post
    Have to give it to dell I mean it took awhile but he seems to finally be an average gm and maybe getting to above average with some of the moves he's made

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    I’ll give him that but his 2 biggest acquisitions were handed to him on a silver platter. Sacs owner wanted Buddy and didn’t want Boogie and the Pels got the #1 pick in a draft that AD was the consensus #1. Not even Dell could mess that up. Aside from those 2, he’s very below average imo. Not raining on his parade just putting his time here in perspective. He’s not all of a sudden good at his job because the Pels are winning.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by UptownFuz504 View Post
    I don’t give Dell credit for Boogie. Sac didn’t want him and other teams didn’t wanna gamble on Boogie because of a) his contract situation and b) his attitude. From Dell’s perspective it was a no brainer because this market was never going to get a talent like Boogie via free agency. If Sac was dumb enough to give him away for Buddy, you had to take him. Plus, it’s going to help keep AD which in turn will help him keep his job. I do give him credit for putting the pieces together to make the deal happen. The trade though was pretty much handed to him on a silver platter. He does however deserve props for Mirotic b/c he was a hot commodity and that trade came out of nowhere.
    I already said the acquisition required a bit of luck. The only difference between you and me, with regards to this specific trade, is giving Dell credit for taking advantage of a favorable set of circumstances and bargaining the asking price down. The latter was risky and ballsy, and Dell deserves credit for doing that, because as Mythrol pointed out, the first round pick that Dell saved ended up being the difference between acquiring Mirotic and playing a marginal talent like Cunningham extended minutes. You know, the same acquisition you just gave Dell credit for making.

    AD was an obvious pick. I doubt anybody would dispute that.

    Overall, Dell has almost always succeeded in filling in the edges with rotation pieces on bargain contracts ala Belinelli, Ayon, Okafor, etc. My primary issue with him has been dealing with sunk cost and negotiating against himself. But at the end of the day, it's difficult to evaluate his performance here because our teams have always faced significant injuries, particularly to core players. Next year, in my opinion, is going to be the make or break year for him. We have at least one more "biggish" trade in us, where we move some sort of combination of Moore, Hill, and Ajinca and bring back either one more big piece OR a number of rotation players to surround our Big 3 and Mirotic. Whether that trade takes place during the offseason or nearer to the deadline depends on what exactly we would be targeting and which players are made available. That's when our real run will begin.
    Last edited by PelsFan2313; 03-07-2018 at 07:15 PM.

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  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by UptownFuz504 View Post
    I donít give Dell credit for Boogie. Sac didnít want him and other teams didnít wanna gamble on Boogie because of a) his contract situation and b) his attitude. From Dellís perspective it was a no brainer because this market was never going to get a talent like Boogie via free agency. If Sac was dumb enough to give him away for Buddy, you had to take him. Plus, itís going to help keep AD which in turn will help him keep his job. I do give him credit for putting the pieces together to make the deal happen. The trade though was pretty much handed to him on a silver platter. He does however deserve props for Mirotic b/c he was a hot commodity and that trade came out of nowhere.
    I just don't understand how you can't give Dell credit for finding and taking advantage of a situation.

    Other teams didn't want to gamble on Cousins? Then why did other GMs even at the time say they wish they knew about that trade because they'd like to have talked to the Kings 1st? How come so many people were so inclined this year to want to trade for Cousins?

    Also, Dell played hardball and got the trade done without including 2 1st, something everyone thought it would take because of how little we offered.

  6. #31
    I think Dell hit home runs on Boogie, Nico, and Okafor. To say he doesn't is kind of absurd. We got nico and boogie for hield and 2 first rounders. I think we win that 10x over especially because of the relationship he has with AD

  7. #32
    RIP BDJ AUSSIE_PELICAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wnelson View Post
    I think Dell hit home runs on Boogie, Nico, and Okafor. To say he doesn't is kind of absurd. We got nico and boogie for hield and 2 first rounders. I think we win that 10x over especially because of the relationship he has with AD
    Heild and 3 first rounders.
    It cost us a 1st to initially to get Asik.
    All up we have traded 7 1st rounders since 2011 and gotten back Jrue, Boogie and Mirotic.

    Traded essentially Tobias Harris for Bayless
    Dekker for Asik
    Noel and Payton for Jrue
    Heild and a 1st for Boogie
    A 1st for Mirotic

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN View Post
    Heild and 3 first rounders.
    It cost us a 1st to initially to get Asik.
    All up we have traded 7 1st rounders since 2011 and gotten back Jrue, Boogie and Mirotic.

    Traded essentially Tobias Harris for Bayless
    Dekker for Asik
    Noel and Payton for Jrue
    Heild and a 1st for Boogie
    A 1st for Mirotic
    Yes. When we look at the big picture Dell pulled it off. We are a small market who has almost always had trouble attracting really good players. Stars. Now we have a superstar and an above average Starter in Niko. We brought in rondo and we went after Miller. We have the pieces to possibly make another very good move to have us ready for 2019/2019 title run.


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  9. #34
    A superstar, an emerging star, and a guy that can get you 15/8 off the bench? Those three guys could be a franchise's big three and sub AD for niko and we had a top 3 big three before boogie left. I understand you are consumed by the past but I see a very bright future for a purposeful franchise. Dell has turned his own failures into a scary good roster. When we are rid of Ajinca his sins will be gone.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN View Post
    Heild and 3 first rounders.
    It cost us a 1st to initially to get Asik.
    That's not how opportunity and sunk costs work. Asik's deal was already done and over and he was on a 2nd contract with us.

    Do we also start to count up all the subsequent trades that took place to allow us to have Tyreke? How do we account for trades that made our team worse to allow our pick to get higher to have more value? Should we start counting back from the Hornets trading Kobe or go further back still?

    We traded a 1st for Asik on his previous contract. He has signed another contract since. If we traded Jrue 3 years from now I wouldn't say we trade 2 1st for player X. The cost has already been sunk years before.

    The point in mentioning the Niko trade along with Cousins trade was because it showed the steps Dell took. Had he not played hard ball we couldn't have made the Niko trade. They are directly linked because of that.

    Going back 4 years to try and add a pick to these trades is not the same thing at all and shouldn't count.

  11. #36
    The Franchise Contributor luigi modelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UptownFuz504 View Post
    I’ll give him that but his 2 biggest acquisitions were handed to him on a silver platter. Sacs owner wanted Buddy and didn’t want Boogie and the Pels got the #1 pick in a draft that AD was the consensus #1. Not even Dell could mess that up. Aside from those 2, he’s very below average imo. Not raining on his parade just putting his time here in perspective. He’s not all of a sudden good at his job because the Pels are winning.
    Nothing is handed on a silver platter in this league. Furthermore, beyond the 2 great trades you refer to, he has done a great job of finding end of the roster guys, using 2 way contracts, and staying within the salary cap. And, let's just add that Moore, Rondo, Clark, and Miller have all proven to be good additions to our roster. All things considered, we currently have one of the best rosters in the league, who are scoring at will, and now playing top 10 d. What more does Dell have to do to get the armchair GM to approve? At this point, it isn't worth arguing, I guess.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by luigi modelo View Post
    Nothing is handed on a silver platter in this league. Furthermore, beyond the 2 great trades you refer to, he has done a great job of finding end of the roster guys, using 2 way contracts, and staying within the salary cap. And, let's just add that Moore, Rondo, Clark, and Miller have all proven to be good additions to our roster. All things considered, we currently have one of the best rosters in the league, who are scoring at will, and now playing top 10 d. What more does Dell have to do to get the armchair GM to approve? At this point, it isn't worth arguing, I guess.
    I think its just consistency now. I havent been the biggest Demps fan, and I think there is still a good bit to prove before he moves into the top half of the NBA GM list, but he has done well for this season, and now its just ustaining this success over the long haul.

    I found this article today, good read from an unbiased source.

    http://www.thecolgatemaroonnews.com/...ca44e79c6.html

    The NBA trade deadline move that has paid off best is the dealing of PF Nikola Mirotic to the New Orleans Pelicans. Since Mirotic’s arrival, the Pelicans are 7-2 sitting at fifth overall in the western conference standings (currently on a seven-game winning streak).

    While much of the winning streak may be attributed to Anthony Davis averaging 34.3 ppg and 13.3 rpg over that stretch, it would be wrong to ignore Mirotic’s contribution. Mirotic is in the midst of his best season since entering the NBA in 2014. His rebound, point, assist, and block averages are all above his career numbers and despite seeing increased usage, he has not lost a great deal of efficiency. Perhaps most important, Mirotic is shooting nearly 40% from 3-pt range, which is invaluable in spreading the floor for Anthony Davis. While Mirotic cannot replace the inside presence of the injured DeMarcus Cousins, he complements the offensive style of Davis who has seen more touches inside since Cousins tore his achilles.
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  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by luigi modelo View Post
    Nothing is handed on a silver platter in this league. Furthermore, beyond the 2 great trades you refer to, he has done a great job of finding end of the roster guys, using 2 way contracts, and staying within the salary cap. And, let's just add that Moore, Rondo, Clark, and Miller have all proven to be good additions to our roster. All things considered, we currently have one of the best rosters in the league, who are scoring at will, and now playing top 10 d. What more does Dell have to do to get the armchair GM to approve? At this point, it isn't worth arguing, I guess.
    I do give Dell Credit for seizing these opportunities and being patient getting the RIGHT pieces. It's taken a long time, and i feel like he has finally closed the door on some bad contracts (one more to go Ajinca), and gotten rid of the fat on this team (cunningham/nelson/allen - just too many role players with not enough bang)... We got lucky that teams were willing to let go of these two great players (Boogie and Mirotic), who aren't overpaid. Dell totally crushed them on the deals though, not giving up much. I honestly couldn't believe he pulled the Mirotic trade off and saved this season... It's remarkable.

    All Hail Dell Demps! Go Pels!

  14. #39
    absolutely disgusting how many of those losers want AD to get injured

  15. #40
    The Franchise Contributor luigi modelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisisowen View Post
    I do give Dell Credit for seizing these opportunities and being patient getting the RIGHT pieces. It's taken a long time, and i feel like he has finally closed the door on some bad contracts (one more to go Ajinca), and gotten rid of the fat on this team (cunningham/nelson/allen - just too many role players with not enough bang)... We got lucky that teams were willing to let go of these two great players (Boogie and Mirotic), who aren't overpaid. Dell totally crushed them on the deals though, not giving up much. I honestly couldn't believe he pulled the Mirotic trade off and saved this season... It's remarkable.

    All Hail Dell Demps! Go Pels!
    This response I can get behind more than your previous comments, as this is more reasoned. I just felt that boiling it down to "luck" diminishes what Dell has worked hard to do, so thanks for adding a little more nuance.

  16. #41
    Just like any GM in the NBA...You have your good moves and bad moves and most are judged by their bad moves not good ones. I am just glad Demps is moving toward good moves instead of bad ones he did early on. I honestly hated the Asik move the most and he made it worse by overpaying for a center that you can get for a dime a dozen on the open market. I understand people will say AD did not want to play center, but if you could get 80% of Asik production for a less than 5 mil a year then that is the better option. Demps has really made some good moves since which makes me happy.

  17. #42
    Gerrity Joe Joe Gerrity's Avatar
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    Poor guys! They spent a lot of time tracking the pick only to have the entire thread locked before the pick is even determined.

    Regarding Dell, I would have fired him a year and a half ago if I'd had the chance. Given what I know today, I now think that would have been a bad decision.

    It's hard to say what someone else would have done as the GM, but most high level basketball people wouldn't have touched Boogie with a 10 foot pole a year ago. I'm not sure a new GM would have been willing to risk his job trading for Cousins. Fortunately for us Dell needed to make a bold move given where he was in his career, and when the Boogie trade presented itself, he did. It appears to be working out, but it wasn't always so clear that it would.
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  18. #43
    The Franchise pawel's Avatar
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    Mythrol.
    Original Boogie trade consisted only of two firsts.
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  19. #44
    Demps is gonna pull off something else. Heís not done yet. I wonít be surprised if he moves Moore, Diallo and Ajinca. We can get 2 solid guys in offseason after we sign boogie and Miller. One through a trade and another decent FA pickup. Gotta get players that can do it all. But they need to have size. 6í8Ē SF Hill could still be one of the last pieces we need but we will have to wait and see.


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  20. #45
    RIP BDJ AUSSIE_PELICAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pelicanchamp View Post
    Demps is gonna pull off something else. He’s not done yet. I won’t be surprised if he moves Moore, Diallo and Ajinca. We can get 2 solid guys in offseason after we sign boogie and Miller. One through a trade and another decent FA pickup. Gotta get players that can do it all. But they need to have size. 6’8” SF Hill could still be one of the last pieces we need but we will have to wait and see.


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    Miller isn't a free agent. He has a player option.

  21. #46
    The Franchise pawel's Avatar
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    Team option. Guaranteed in part shortly after draft (300k). Fully guaranteed on July 4th.
    Big difference.
    Great deal $2.2m

  22. #47
    The Franchise pawel's Avatar
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    Correction. It is NG deal. Not TO or PO.
    It is just not guaranteed deal until June 28th (300k). Fully on July 4th.
    It is like team option. But not real team option.
    So Pels dont need to use any options. Just wait. And his deal will become guaranteed.

  23. #48
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! AusPel's Avatar
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    Plot twist, NBADraft.net has the Bulls taking lil Aaron Holiday with our pick

    Wouldn't that be ironic Alanis Morrisette style!

    Probably won't happen though with the Bulls liking Dunn as the starting point

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by RekeHavoc View Post
    he spaces the floor so well and will hit threes at a better rate than this. Just wait til he can play with Boogie and AD and we can limit his minutes to his normal rate. Even solo coming back can help with that. Overall i've been impressed with him, a lot of stuff he can improve on but I think he's a completely different and better type of 4 than Ryan Anderson was for us. Defense is miles better than RA's along with different aspects of niko's offensive game.
    you know what's up... he plays awesome D, pulls in usually 8+ rebounds, and still gets 10+ points, even when shooting 30%... He'll come around. A WELCOME addition, as long as he's not taking too many of Diallos minutes.

  25. #50
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! AusPel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisisowen View Post
    you know what's up... he plays awesome D, pulls in usually 8+ rebounds, and still gets 10+ points, even when shooting 30%... He'll come around. A WELCOME addition, as long as he's not taking too many of Diallos minutes.
    He's had some average games on D as well but probably more good than bad

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