kemba walker available

[Bricklayer]

Well, Pels needs really aren't on offense.

They are 2nd in the league in points in the paint.
They are 2nd in the league in assists a game.
They are 6th in the league in ORTG.
They are 3rd in the league in TS%

And the old proviso about offense is that there is only one ball. Meaning that you can never add too many good defenders, every one added makes you better and better on defense. but because there is only one ball you can definitely add too many guys who need it to be effective on offense. Kemba's a guy who takes a ton of shots, he likes to have the ball to attack. If Jrue has continued his early season flatline play then yes, you needed a player like that. But with Jrue playing the 3rd star now, with Rondo passing but not shooting, the roleplayers scorching along at 60%+ TS%s...it's not clear what Kemba would really add to this roster at this point. He could even break the team passing and grind things to a halt as people began to struggle for the ball and shots.

[Mythrol]

I think it's extremely clear what Kemba adds at the end of games. All of our recent losses or close games lately have come down to not having a guy to throw the ball to and saying, "Go make a play" at the end of the game.

No one on this team can effectively penetrate. Kemba fixes that.

Defense needs improving but we have Hill and Allen both who are coming back from injury hopefully in the next few weeks. That should greatly improve our defense once both get back into game shape.

Kemba fixes a very specific problem that our team currently has no answer for.

[Bricklayer]

I think it's extremely clear what Kemba adds at the end of games. All of our recent losses or close games lately have come down to not having a guy to throw the ball to and saying, "Go make a play" at the end of the game.

No one on this team can effectively penetrate. Kemba fixes that.

Defense needs improving but we have Hill and Allen both who are coming back from injury hopefully in the next few weeks. That should greatly improve our defense once both get back into game shape.

Kemba fixes a very specific problem that our team currently has no answer for.

If you just need that, then go get Tyreke back and bring him off the bench as a ball dominant 6th man that you can close games with if necessary. It would cost far less in assets, and have far less chance of disrupting everything by trying to add a 4th 20ppg scorer to a single starting lineup.

[Mythrol]

If you just need that, then go get Tyreke back and bring him off the bench as a ball dominant 6th man that you can close games with if necessary. It would cost far less in assets, and have far less chance of disrupting everything by trying to add a 4th 20ppg scorer to a single starting lineup.

Tyreke is worse than Cousins at iso ball. He is NOT someone you want to trust with the ball at the end of the game.

Golden State's offense closely resembles ours and they seem to be doing just fine with 4 All Star level players. It's a good problem to have. Jrue and AD are more than willing to adapt their play style to whoever joins them.

Everyone that wanted to add Bledsoe this summer should also want to add Kemba.

[tdcreator]

Tyreke is worse than Cousins at iso ball. He is NOT someone you want to trust with the ball at the end of the game.

Golden State's offense closely resembles ours and they seem to be doing just fine with 4 All Star level players. It's a good problem to have. Jrue and AD are more than willing to adapt their play style to whoever joins them.

Everyone that wanted to add Bledsoe this summer should also want to add Kemba.

True, my only issue is what kind of defense does he bring. We can score 120 a game but if we give it up then it doesn't mean much.

[tdcreator]

I’d love to get MKG and Walker and I think 2 first and a second could work. Maybe Chicago gets in on it since they have lots of cap space but they’d get one of the firsts or a first and second.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8vpnqrr

I don’t know when we could trade Nelson but hornets were interested when we signed him so swap Clark for Nelson.

My hope for a big trade like this is that we finish really strong and everyone takes less money to stay together. Next year we’d prob have to find a way to move hill and fill the squad with players wanting to win a championship. Next year we build off of this,
Kemba
Jrue, Justin
MKG, Miller
Davis, Hill
Cousins

The trade machine doesn't work well so here is the guts of my trade.
1. Chicago gets Asik, Cunningham, Tony Allen, and a first (Chicago and hornets decide who gets which first) could throw Clark or Jackson if we want Grant.
2 Hornets get Moore, Ajinca, Nelson, Diallo, and a first and second rounder (They should be able to buyout Ajinca and drop 10 mil in salary this year)
3. Pels get MKG, Walker, and Justin Holiday (We drop 30.6 million and pickup 29.6 so maybe have enough for a small move to get a big)

[Rheem654]

The trade machine doesn't work well so here is the guts of my trade.
1. Chicago gets Asik, Cunningham, Tony Allen, and a first (Chicago and hornets decide who gets which first) could throw Clark or Jackson if we want Grant.
2 Hornets get Moore, Ajinca, Nelson, Diallo, and a first and second rounder (They should be able to buyout Ajinca and drop 10 mil in salary this year)
3. Pels get MKG, Walker, and Justin Holiday (We drop 30.6 million and pickup 29.6 so maybe have enough for a small move to get a big)

Hmm, so Hornets get Moore back, whose contract is the same # of years at MKG at only 4mil less/yr. And a low 1st for their best player- doesn't seem like a great offer, they should be able to get much better. I think Moore would have to be re-routed to another team for a further pick and capspace. Or if this kind of offer is the best they can get, then I think they would just keep Kemba and try and trade him for a better offer in the offseason.

[Rheem654]

True, my only issue is what kind of defense does he bring. We can score 120 a game but if we give it up then it doesn't mean much.

People asked the same about the Rockets with their heavy focus on offense, and they're the second best team in the league. A great, next-level offense helps with defense, too. Having the other team take the ball out from out of bounds after a string of made shots helps the defense be able to be set rather than scrambling to guard a quick attack off a missed shot.

Between Jrue, AD, Solo as plus defenders, and with Kemba, Cousins playing smart team-D with effort, they should be just fine on that end.

[tdcreator]

Hmm, so Hornets get Moore back, whose contract is the same # of years at MKG at only 4mil less/yr. And a low 1st for their best player- doesn't seem like a great offer, they should be able to get much better. I think Moore would have to be re-routed to another team for a further pick and capspace. Or if this kind of offer is the best they can get, then I think they would just keep Kemba and try and trade him for a better offer in the offseason.

I understand, but they save 10 million this year and more next year with the expirings and buyout options. They should be able to move Moore for another asset since he’s having a nice year if they choose. As for First, opt for the 2020 pick and pray we don’t resign Kemba or cousins. I think the hornets best bet is to attach our First to get rid of one of their other high priced vets. Personally with the 10 million they save this year I’d get another bad contract and First from a team like Cleveland or Washington. Then you have a bad year next year but with 3 picks in another deep draft. (Their pick, our pick, and either a move of Moore or getting a bad contract with pick)

[Rheem654]

I understand, but they save 10 million this year and more next year with the expirings and buyout options. They should be able to move Moore for another asset since he’s having a nice year if they choose. As for First, opt for the 2020 pick and pray we don’t resign Kemba or cousins. I think the hornets best bet is to attach our First to get rid of one of their other high priced vets. Personally with the 10 million they save this year I’d get another bad contract and First from a team like Cleveland or Washington. Then you have a bad year next year but with 3 picks in another deep draft. (Their pick, our pick, and either a move of Moore or getting a bad contract with pick)

I hear you. I think we're going to have to give up 2 1sts, one to dump Asik/Ajinca contracts to a 3rd team, then one for value for Kemba. And take on a big contract, which I have a feeling Hornets will make a hard push to make Pels take M. Williams (sightly bigger contract the next 2 years, older 30+ player) rather than MKG (cheaper contract, young enough to be a part of a rebuild or have better value in another trade).

Here's how it would probably have to look: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycyha3ws

Pels get: Kemba, M. Williams

Cavs get: Moore

Bulls get: Asik, Ajinca, Pels 1st (2018 or 2020)
(or another team willing to take 1 year of Asik/Ajinca salary for a 1st)

Hornets get: Shumpert, Pondexter, Diallo, F. Jackson, Cavs 2018 1st, Pels 1st (choice of '18 or '20)

Hornets only take back 10 mil next year, get 2 fringe young potential players, and 2 1sts, and clear a lot of cap space. But even still, I see it from a PR viewpoint that they have to sell their fans on this trade being worth giving up their best player, heart and soul of the team. I think they'll be holding out for a top-8 first in this year's draft (unlikely), or a recent lotto young-potential player like Frank Nitilikina from NYK.

[Bricklayer]

Tyreke is worse than Cousins at iso ball. He is NOT someone you want to trust with the ball at the end of the game.

Golden State's offense closely resembles ours and they seem to be doing just fine with 4 All Star level players. It's a good problem to have. Jrue and AD are more than willing to adapt their play style to whoever joins them.

Everyone that wanted to add Bledsoe this summer should also want to add Kemba.

1) the obvious difference being that Golden State a) only 3 of their 4 All star caliber players are offensive players. It makes a big difference. The 4th is a defender/roleplayer/passer; b) was just as dominant before the extra offensive weapon.

2) and on Bledsoe a) he was a much better looking fit before it was obvious Jrue would step it up; and b) part of the appeal was always his early career rep as a defender/other things guy. Kemba on the other hand has always been heavily skewed toward ball dominant offense much more than defense.

P.S. I'm a little confused about what you think Kemba is if you are going to deride Tyreke for iso ball. Kemba sits on the ball, and drives/attacks tit himself. He's not a ball movement guy.


In any case, the point stands that the Pels right now, today, are running a better offense than anything Kemba has ever been a part of. There is only limited room for improvement on that end.

[Mythrol]

1) the obvious difference being that Golden State a) only 3 of their 4 All star caliber players are offensive players. It makes a big difference. The 4th is a defender/roleplayer/passer; b) was just as dominant before the extra offensive weapon.

2) and on Bledsoe a) he was a much better looking fit before it was obvious Jrue would step it up; and b) part of the appeal was always his early career rep as a defender/other things guy. Kemba on the other hand has always been heavily skewed toward ball dominant offense much more than defense.

I disagree

[Rheem654]

1) the obvious difference being that Golden State a) only 3 of their 4 All star caliber players are offensive players. It makes a big difference. The 4th is a defender/roleplayer/passer; b) was just as dominant before the extra offensive weapon.

2) and on Bledsoe a) he was a much better looking fit before it was obvious Jrue would step it up; and b) part of the appeal was always his early career rep as a defender/other things guy. Kemba on the other hand has always been heavily skewed toward ball dominant offense much more than defense.

P.S. I'm a little confused about what you think Kemba is if you are going to deride Tyreke for iso ball. Kemba sits on the ball, and drives/attacks tit himself. He's not a ball movement guy.


In any case, the point stands that the Pels right now, today, are running a better offense than anything Kemba has ever been a part of. There is only limited room for improvement on that end.

Well a counter-point to this: adding a top pure-scorer like Kemba can lessen the offensive load required by Jrue/AD/Cousins, giving them more energy left to focus on defense-- and thus the defense improves. Especially AD and Jrue, who can be all-NBA level defensive forces when locked-in. Also, when the 5th starter is a defensive specialist like Solo, that helps, too.

[Mythrol]

Well a counter-point to this: adding a top pure-scorer like Kemba can lessen the offensive load required by Jrue/AD/Cousins, giving them more energy left to focus on defense-- and thus the defense improves. Especially AD and Jrue, who can be all-NBA level defensive forces when locked-in. Also, when the 5th starter is a defensive specialist like Solo, that helps, too.

This. It doesn't matter how good our offense is if at the end of games when it's time to close it out we don't have a "go to" guy to break down the defense.

Jrue and AD are flexible enough that you can bring anyone in next to them and they will make it work. Lessening the scoring load for AD and Jrue is a good thing. Replacing Rondo with Kemba is a big upgrade with little to no damage to our defense and maybe even an upgrade. Allowing AD and Jrue to spend more energy on the defense end will help our team out. I'd say the same for Cousins but we already know the amount of energy he has doesn't really impact how he plays defense.

Kemba being added to this team would be huge and we are one of the few teams that have two of their major players being two way players that can absorb another score first player. It's crazy to argue against wanting to add another All Star level player at a position of need if we can do it without giving up our core.

[Eman5805]

Coming up on the time when we made our landmark trade last year.

Maybe we do something similar?

[tyler]

I doubt it... we don't have nothing to give up especially something big like kemba

[P_B_&_G]

I doubt it... we don't have nothing to give up especially something big like cousins

FIFY

[PelsFan2313]

I think it's extremely clear what Kemba adds at the end of games. All of our recent losses or close games lately have come down to not having a guy to throw the ball to and saying, "Go make a play" at the end of the game.

No one on this team can effectively penetrate. Kemba fixes that.

Defense needs improving but we have Hill and Allen both who are coming back from injury hopefully in the next few weeks. That should greatly improve our defense once both get back into game shape.

Kemba fixes a very specific problem that our team currently has no answer for.

It doesn't matter how good our offense is if at the end of games when it's time to close it out we don't have a "go to" guy to break down the defense.

vs.

Our offense is already near the top of the league. It makes no sense to trade our ONLY 2 way guard to try and improve the offense when our defense is the issue.

It makes no sense to trade defensive assets to try and improve and already good offense. We need to bring in defensive players.

...

In any case, the point stands that the Pels right now, today, are running a better offense than anything Kemba has ever been a part of. There is only limited room for improvement on that end.

I disagree

Well a counter-point to this: adding a top pure-scorer like Kemba can lessen the offensive load required by Jrue/AD/Cousins, giving them more energy left to focus on defense-- and thus the defense improves. Especially AD and Jrue, who can be all-NBA level defensive forces when locked-in. Also, when the 5th starter is a defensive specialist like Solo, that helps, too.

This.

[N.O.Bronco]

Yeah, you kind of have a point on that one PelsFan lol.

[PelsFan2313]

Yeah, you kind of have a point on that one PelsFan lol.

Lmao, I'm glad someone else is seeing what I'm seeing.

[Mythrol]

The difference is we aren't losing Jrue to add Kemba. McCollum vs Jrue is a totally different take because we sacrifice defense for him. Even in what was quoted I made it quite clear it was due to losing Jrue.

Kemba for a rag tag group of pieces is fine. McCollum for a ragtag group of pieces is fine (though I see him as more of a spot up shooter that doesn't solve our main issue of needing a prime ball handler to break down the defense at the end of the game).

I'm disappointed you couldn't figure out the difference.

[Blindambition25]

After sifting through the responses, most of which are when talking about the reality of something like this, the automatic reaction from everyone is that a boogie less squad is the only way to work it out really.....This is wrong so many ways it's kinda funny. Kemba Walker first off...the best player the hornets have, who they tried to build around as of late since he became superstar level has now been the plug that got pulled. They gave up on that direction and clearly are hoping some team out there that needs a high scoring point guard will dump a good bounty out to get him. Which if you're any kind of GM worth anything, you realize as a desperate move for assets and to reset the franchise after the debacle of this season so far for them...So a low balled offer is the best anyone's going to give out unless they themselves see kemba as their future and are willing to pay high for him. Which since he's been publicly put up on the block...doesn't seem like it is this way....as if that team that wants him hasn't had enough chance to try already and now this move is done...it wouldnt surprise me in the least if that's what this is....the hornets getting an offer that's not enough from a team trying to get kemba behind closed doors and then publicly doing this to drive up interest and the price they'll end up getting. It's more than likely just a stunt to make a team blink. But if it's legit....then yeh the pelicans have the assets and the salary to make it work and can still bring back cousins after re ordering their transactions this off-season. But even if it were possible to get him, getting Walker at the expense of cousins is plain stupidity. You have a thriving big three in Ad, Cousins, and Jrue whos play off the ball for the first time ever in this capacity has garnered him his best scoring season average in his career. While still getting some assists and getting more rebounds. His defensive stats are up as well. Basically, as the pels you've created a backcourt that has both Jrue and Moore putting up career numbers, has rondo doing his part running the offense, and has even found time for guys like Darius Miller to become a sharpshooting deep ball guy. All of this and you want to add a better scorer and overall talent at point and then the dominoes start to line up, Jrue has his level of play reduce by the game I bet. The offense is not running properly so the level of team continuity of starting to show it's falloff. And that's when they jjust seem to really be getting each other as a team. So.....forget it.. I'd rather boogie every day of the week and wouldn't want to screw it up tean wise in the middle of the year with a new primary ball handler....maybe a shooter or backup big. But not a starting number 1....

[Mythrol]

Paragraphs are your friend.

As far as what you're saying, I didn't see anyone saying Cousins for Walker here. The main idea is to add Walker to our core, not use one of our core pieces to get him. We aren't trading Cousins this year for many reasons but one of the biggest for why we wouldn't do it for Walker is we already need a 3rd big and losing him would make that even harder.

The idea I think people are mostly presenting here is: Adding another All Star level talent here without losing any All Star level talent is a good thing.

[Bricklayer]

Talent is a grand thing. I am normally big about talent, especially top end talent. But fit is also a big thing, and the best franchises, well aside from the preconstructed superteams, always find ways to strike the right balance, find the right roleplayers etc. so that the overall unit plays better than its constituent parts.

And that is my argument about Kemba -- he is a very good player, for the right team. His particular skillset, and I'm not sure why there is a question about this since he was this way all the way back into college, is as a ball dominant downhill rim attacking guard with shaky floor generalship. Of course now it being the "modern NBA" he has added in prolific 3pt spamming at ok efficiency. Consider these numbers:

Percentage of FGs assisted
Cunningham 90.4%
Miller 82.9%
Moore 77.3%
Clark 70.0%
Davis 69.0%
Cousins 54.7%
Nelson 51.4%
Holiday 50.0%
Rondo 33.0%
Walker 25.9%

FGA a Game
Cousins 18.1
Davis 17.4
Holiday 14.8
Moore 10.1
Rondo 6.6
Miller 5.7
Clark 5.0
Nelson 4.7
Cunningham 4.3
+
Walker 17.4?

TS%
Cousins .582
Davis .636
Holiday .583
Moore .615
Miller .642
+
Walker .549
+
Rondo .532
Cunningham .525
Clark .502
Nelson .501


Time of Possession/Game
Walker 8.0min (4th in NBA)
Holiday 4.4min
Rondo 4.4min
Cousins 4.0min
Nelson 3.6min
Davis 2.3min
Moore 1.5min


And etc.

Guys, what that is is a statistical portrait of is of a player who comes from a disimilar offensive approach to basketball than the one being used by Gentry/Finch. Kemba is Tyreke. Later day Iverson school. He's EXTREMELY ball dominant...and the Pels this year have gone the opposite way and divied up ballhandling and passing duties amongst a platoon of players. The ball has hopped, the team is the #2 assisting team in the league, and the Pels top 5 players have been extraordinarily efficient. Going out and acquiring one of the league's most ball dominant players, a player who creates 3/4 of his own shots off his own dribble and is used to taking as many shots a game as the Pels' Towers but at lesser efficiency...that's a bowling ball that would send pins flying in every direction for the Pels. There is simply no way that would be anything but disruptive as hell, and disruptive on the very side of the ball where the Pels have often been special.


As a closing note:

2017-18 Per 36min
Kemba 22.6pts (.423 .343 .848) 3.5reb 6.0ast 1.3stl 0.3blk 2.1TO on .549TS% and 25.9% AstFG
Tyreke 22.5pts (.455 .392 .800) 6.0reb 5.7ast 1.2stl 0.4blk 2.4TO on .561TS% and 31.1% AstFG

[Tinman]

After sifting through the responses, most of which are when talking about the reality of something like this, the automatic reaction from everyone is that a boogie less squad is the only way to work it out really.....This is wrong so many ways it's kinda funny. Kemba Walker first off...the best player the hornets have, who they tried to build around as of late since he became superstar level has now been the plug that got pulled. They gave up on that direction and clearly are hoping some team out there that needs a high scoring point guard will dump a good bounty out to get him. Which if you're any kind of GM worth anything, you realize as a desperate move for assets and to reset the franchise after the debacle of this season so far for them...So a low balled offer is the best anyone's going to give out unless they themselves see kemba as their future and are willing to pay high for him. Which since he's been publicly put up on the block...doesn't seem like it is this way....as if that team that wants him hasn't had enough chance to try already and now this move is done...it wouldnt surprise me in the least if that's what this is....the hornets getting an offer that's not enough from a team trying to get kemba behind closed doors and then publicly doing this to drive up interest and the price they'll end up getting. It's more than likely just a stunt to make a team blink. But if it's legit....then yeh the pelicans have the assets and the salary to make it work and can still bring back cousins after re ordering their transactions this off-season. But even if it were possible to get him, getting Walker at the expense of cousins is plain stupidity. You have a thriving big three in Ad, Cousins, and Jrue whos play off the ball for the first time ever in this capacity has garnered him his best scoring season average in his career. While still getting some assists and getting more rebounds. His defensive stats are up as well. Basically, as the pels you've created a backcourt that has both Jrue and Moore putting up career numbers, has rondo doing his part running the offense, and has even found time for guys like Darius Miller to become a sharpshooting deep ball guy. All of this and you want to add a better scorer and overall talent at point and then the dominoes start to line up, Jrue has his level of play reduce by the game I bet. The offense is not running properly so the level of team continuity of starting to show it's falloff. And that's when they jjust seem to really be getting each other as a team. So.....forget it.. I'd rather boogie every day of the week and wouldn't want to screw it up tean wise in the middle of the year with a new primary ball handler....maybe a shooter or backup big. But not a starting number 1....

Have you ever read War & Peace? I did & it took me less time than it did to read this extremely lonnnnnnng paragraph. Mercy.