Is Jrue playing up to his max contract? (jrue appreciation thread ?)

[Bricklayer]

As much as I like Moore, I’d trade him in a heartbeat to upgrade our pg or SF. We have plenty of backup SG on this team. I’d even do Justin holiday and grant for Moore. It would help our depth at pg and SG/sf.

That might be a mistake.

And mind you, I considered and still do consider, E'Twaun Moore to be a mind-numbingly mediocre NBA talent. I wouldn't pay you a nickel to watch 5 E'Twaun Moores play basketball.

But the thing is this year he above all other Pelicans has been absolutely brilliant in realizing his roleplayer potential, and on offense at least has played things just about perfectly. He's not anymore talented in an overall sense, but he has shown/developed a great roleplayer's sense of how to cut and where to spot up, and he's a major grease guy for the offensive side of the ball.

I mean, this is a guy with a career .529 TS%, and this year he's at an insane .624 TS%. And there's a reason for that -- according to nba.com 77.1% of his shots have been assisted as he runs those backdoor cuts, little dives and flips, and spots up in the corners.

Now defensively, playing him at the 3 has been part of the problem, no doubt. But Moore this season has been one of the primary examples of a guy who gets it, who's figured out how to play in the shadow of the Towers and to use it to overachieve. I don't know quite what happens when Grindfather and Hill get back -- suddenly there will be more little man options than there are little men minutes. But Moore has certainly been a primary guy arguing to keep a large chunk of his time going forward.

[Mythrol]

Yet we're horrifically bad on that end anyways? Give me the elite scorer. It's a lot easier to obtain elite defensive players than offensive ones. The former is a lot less valued from a market standpoint.

You think our offense is good now? CJ would take it to another level.

Our offense is already near the top of the league. It makes no sense to trade our ONLY 2 way guard to try and improve the offense when our defense is the issue.

[tyler]

That might be a mistake.

And mind you, I considered and still do consider, E'Twaun Moore to be a mind-numbingly mediocre NBA talent. I wouldn't pay you a nickel to watch 5 E'Twaun Moores play basketball.

But the thing is this year he above all other Pelicans has been absolutely brilliant in realizing his roleplayer potential, and on offense at least has played things just about perfectly. He's not anymore talented in an overall sense, but he has shown/developed a great roleplayer's sense of how to cut and where to spot up, and he's a major grease guy for the offensive side of the ball.

I mean, this is a guy with a career .529 TS%, and this year he's at an insane .624 TS%. And there's a reason for that -- according to nba.com 77.1% of his shots have been assisted as he runs those backdoor cuts, little dives and flips, and spots up in the corners.

Now defensively, playing him at the 3 has been part of the problem, no doubt. But Moore this season has been one of the primary examples of a guy who gets it, who's figured out how to play in the shadow of the Towers and to use it to overachieve. I don't know quite what happens when Grindfather and Hill get back -- suddenly there will be more little man options than there are little men minutes. But Moore has certainly been a primary guy arguing to keep a large chunk of his time going forward.

[PelsFan2313]

Our offense is already near the top of the league. It makes no sense to trade our ONLY 2 way guard to try and improve the offense when our defense is the issue.

And we already suck on the defensive end.

The upgrade in offensive production would be worth the downgrade in defensive production, especially because we would have more flexibility in the backcourt with regards to roster construction. It's unbelievably pathetic that Jrue is being paid 20m to play off ball and we still can't trust him with the ball in his hands in crucial situations.

Hell, I would bet that CJ, Moore, Hill, AD, and Boogie would be equally trash or even better defensively than what we have at the moment. Take the superior talent and long-term solution now. Figure out the fit later.

[N.O.Bronco]

As much as I like Moore, I’d trade him in a heartbeat to upgrade our pg or SF. We have plenty of backup SG on this team. I’d even do Justin holiday and grant for Moore. It would help our depth at pg and SG/sf.

On the other side of that coin, I would be ok trading Jrue for a longer-term solution at point guard, knowing that we have Moore capable of rolling over into his natural position, where he can also be a more positive defender.

[Rheem654]

On the other side of that coin, I would be ok trading Jrue for a longer-term solution at point guard, knowing that we have Moore capable of rolling over into his natural position, where he can also be a more positive defender.

Examples of such a PG?

Holiday for Kemba and MKG? Would be interesting.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yac2gmho

Prob won't happen, but interesting scenario.

[N.O.Bronco]

Examples of such a PG?

Holiday for Kemba and MKG? Would be interesting.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yac2gmho

Prob won't happen, but interesting scenario.

Yeah Kemba was one of the players I had in the back of my head when I wrote that. But like you sort of say, I'm not sure we have the assets they would be looking for to pull that off. They would almost certainly not have any interest in Holliday, as the idea on their end is to blow it up, collect assets, and shed salary if they are giving up on Kemba.

I imagine there are any number of potential buyers better positioned than us to pull that off. Like Denver for instance.

[Mythrol]

And we already suck on the defensive end.

The upgrade in offensive production would be worth the downgrade in defensive production, especially because we would have more flexibility in the backcourt with regards to roster construction. It's unbelievably pathetic that Jrue is being paid 20m to play off ball and we still can't trust him with the ball in his hands in crucial situations.

Hell, I would bet that CJ, Moore, Hill, AD, and Boogie would be equally trash or even better defensively than what we have at the moment. Take the superior talent and long-term solution now. Figure out the fit later.

Yes, we already suck on the defensive end and already have a top offense. So getting rid of the only 1-3 that we have healthy that can defend to try and get more offense is a bad idea. You are grossly mistaken if you think adding CJ would greatly increase our offense and you are equally as mistaken if you think he wouldn't have a negative impact on our defense. The simply fact is, we have more than enough offense with nowhere near enough defense. Trading Jrue for more offense is not a solution to that.

Jrue IS the superior defensive talent and he is a long term solution. He has a longer deal and is only 1 year older than CJ.

[PelsFan2313]

Yes, we already suck on the defensive end and already have a top offense. So getting rid of the only 1-3 that we have healthy that can defend to try and get more offense is a bad idea. You are grossly mistaken if you think adding CJ would greatly increase our offense and you are equally as mistaken if you think he wouldn't have a negative impact on our defense. The simply fact is, we have more than enough offense with nowhere near enough defense. Trading Jrue for more offense is not a solution to that.

Jrue IS the superior defensive talent and he is a long term solution. He has a longer deal and is only 1 year older than CJ.

We aren't THE top offense just like we aren't THE bottom defense. We can improve in EITHER area and become a better team.

Tell me why I'm mistaken by proposing that CJ would make us a better offensive team.

And I said adding CJ, slotting Moore at the 2, and bringing back Hill would likely have a minimal impact on our defense, which already sucks to begin with. Not just subbing Jrue for CJ straight up. I mean we're what, 24th in defensive rating at the moment? That isn't a hard bar to meet. Portland has Lillard and CJ in their backcourt and they have the 7th best defensive rating in the league. Clearly, you can be an adequate defensive team and have CJ play significant minutes. And with Jrue, we aren't even that.

I don't think Jrue is a long-term solution at all. If you think differently, that's fine. But as I've said a million times, a team with a AD- Boogie- Jrue core is never making it past the 2nd round, regardless of the other talent on the team. A team with a AD- Boogie- CJ core on the other hand? That team has a chance, depending on how the pieces around them are put together. You need an elite ball handler who can create his own shot and create for others. It is absolutely a necessity. People were absolutely bashing the idea of trading Boogie for Kyrie. I bet they wouldn't say the same thing now. Jrue on the other hand is being paid $20m contract to be an off-ball player and still lacks the requisite skills to be an offensive catalyst for a good team.

[Mythrol]

We aren't THE top offense just like we aren't THE bottom defense. We can improve in EITHER area and become a better team.

Tell me why I'm mistaken by proposing that CJ would make us a better offensive team.

And I said adding CJ, slotting Moore at the 2, and brining back Hill would likely have a minimal impact on our defense, which already sucks to begin with. Not just subbing Jrue for CJ straight up.

I don't think Jrue is a long-term solution at all. If you think differently, that's fine. But as I've said a million times, a team with a AD- Boogie- Jrue core is never making it past the 2nd round, regardless of the other talent on the team. A team with a AD- Boogie- CJ core on the other hand? That team has a chance, depending on how the pieces around them are put together. You need an elite ball handler who can create his own shot and create for others. It is absolutely a necessity. People were absolutely bashing the idea of trading Boogie for Kyrie. I bet they wouldn't say the same thing now. Jrue on the other hand is being paid $20m contract to be an off-ball player and still lacks the requisite skills to be an offensive catalyst for a good team.

Yes but we have a lot more room to improve on the defensive end than the offensive one.

It makes no sense to trade defensive assets to try and improve and already good offense. We need to bring in defensive players.

[PelsFan2313]

Yes but we have a lot more room to improve on the defensive end than the offensive one.

It makes no sense to trade defensive assets to try and improve and already good offense. We need to bring in defensive players.

It comes down to how much you think CJ could transform this offense. We clearly have different perspectives on that. And we clearly have different perspectives on the value of Jrue as a player. That's fine.

I agree that we definitely have to improve on the defensive end. But you don't pass up the opportunity to trade for an elite offensive talent and legitimate 2nd option. You just don't. Not when the price is Jrue Holiday. There's 9 other roster spots on the team. Want to improve our offensive ceiling AND become a better defensive team? Concentrate on the edges ala the Rockets this year. But the core is much more difficult to obtain and get right. And I think if you get the chance to snag CJ, and retain AD and regrettably Boogie, the foundation is set.

Again, you NEED an elite ball handler who can create his own shot and create for others. Jrue isn't that. Until we get that player, we're going nowhere meaningful.

[HoustonPelicans]

Jrue is the truth man. He's clutch. He knows how to get his points in the system. Probably the best post up guard in the league. Great cutter. Can get his mid range shot off all game.

But most importantly DEFENSE. His defense on Kyrie tonight was amazing. Kyrie was running around multiple screens trying to get away from Jrue, he absolutely needed the switch. It was no way he was getting a bucket on Holiday. Jrue's ability to shut guards down is going to win us playoff games.

[AusPel]

It comes down to how much you think CJ could transform this offense. We clearly have different perspectives on that. And we clearly have different perspectives on the value of Jrue as a player. That's fine.

I agree that we definitely have to improve on the defensive end. But you don't pass up the opportunity to trade for an elite offensive talent and legitimate 2nd option. You just don't. Not when the price is Jrue Holiday. There's 9 other roster spots on the team. Want to improve our offensive ceiling AND become a better defensive team? Concentrate on the edges ala the Rockets this year. But the core is much more difficult to obtain and get right. And I think if you get the chance to snag CJ, and retain AD and regrettably Boogie, the foundation is set.

Again, you NEED an elite ball handler who can create his own shot and create for others. Jrue isn't that. Until we get that player, we're going nowhere meaningful.

Jrue might not be an elite ball handler, but he can definitely create his own shot and take just about anyone to the rack where he is definitely elite at finishing under pressure

Jrue is the truth man. He's clutch. He knows how to get his points in the system. Probably the best post up guard in the league. Great cutter. Can get his mid range shot off all game.

But most importantly DEFENSE. His defense on Kyrie tonight was amazing. Kyrie was running around multiple screens trying to get away from Jrue, he absolutely needed the switch. It was no way he was getting a bucket on Holiday. Jrue's ability to shut guards down is going to win us playoff games.

Word. That side of the ball is so underrated by many. A lot of dudes just aren't interested in playing D. Jrue hardly takes a possession off

[AusPel]

Devin Booker just dropped 43 on CJ. Lulz

[PelsFan2313]

Devin Booker just dropped 43 on CJ. Lulz

Spoken like a guy who looked at the box score and didn't watch the game. Lulz.

[AusPel]

Spoken like a guy who looked at the box score and didn't watch the game. Lulz.

You keep praying for a CJ for Jrue trade. The rest of us will enjoy more of this

This take to the hoop at the end of the quarter by Jrue Holiday was filthy #Pelicans pic.twitter.com/gbYD2nQRJO

— Justin Jett (@JustinJett_) January 17, 2018

[luckyman]

10 people still think that well-below-max contract was an overpay?

That should be next to the definition of stubborn.

[6warddude]

We aren't THE top offense just like we aren't THE bottom defense. We can improve in EITHER area and become a better team.

Tell me why I'm mistaken by proposing that CJ would make us a better offensive team.

And I said adding CJ, slotting Moore at the 2, and bringing back Hill would likely have a minimal impact on our defense, which already sucks to begin with. Not just subbing Jrue for CJ straight up. I mean we're what, 24th in defensive rating at the moment? That isn't a hard bar to meet. Portland has Lillard and CJ in their backcourt and they have the 7th best defensive rating in the league. Clearly, you can be an adequate defensive team and have CJ play significant minutes. And with Jrue, we aren't even that.

I don't think Jrue is a long-term solution at all. If you think differently, that's fine. But as I've said a million times, a team with a AD- Boogie- Jrue core is never making it past the 2nd round, regardless of the other talent on the team. A team with a AD- Boogie- CJ core on the other hand? That team has a chance, depending on how the pieces around them are put together. You need an elite ball handler who can create his own shot and create for others. It is absolutely a necessity. People were absolutely bashing the idea of trading Boogie for Kyrie. I bet they wouldn't say the same thing now. Jrue on the other hand is being paid $20m contract to be an off-ball player and still lacks the requisite skills to be an offensive catalyst for a good team.

i hear what you are saying about offense but jrue make us a better team as a whole...i do not want to be the team that scores and dont have players that cant make key defensive stops in key moments like jrue can.....when jrue put his mind to it,,he can attack the rim and get his own shot when the team is struggling.......and this is coming from a person who is not a jrue fan ...

[luigi modelo]

I keep seeing people say that we "suck" on defense. I'm not sure if y'all have been paying attention, but our defense has been noticeably improving over the past few weeks. Jrue is a perfect piece to our puzzle, and it's his D that makes the difference.

[PelsFan2313]

You keep praying for a CJ for Jrue trade. The rest of us will enjoy more of this

This take to the hoop at the end of the quarter by Jrue Holiday was filthy #Pelicans pic.twitter.com/gbYD2nQRJO

— Justin Jett (@JustinJett_) January 17, 2018

I'm not praying for anything. Because I know an NBA GM isn't stupid enough to trade CJ for a Jrue centered return, unless there's a lot more coming back.

[PelsFan2313]

I keep seeing people say that we "suck" on defense. I'm not sure if y'all have been paying attention, but our defense has been noticeably improving over the past few weeks. Jrue is a perfect piece to our puzzle, and it's his D that makes the difference.

We've given up 110+ in 5 of our last 6 games, the other being 105 to the Grizzlies. If that's improvement, that's saying something.

[N.O.Bronco]

10 people still think that well-below-max contract was an overpay?

That should be next to the definition of stubborn.

I still think it is, but I think I did a good job explaining my thoughts for why I still fall down on that side....And that ultimately that doesn’t matter nearly as much as whether Jrue’s contract can be moved if an upgrade presents itself.

[deiondeion]

I’d trade Moore is we can find an upgrade at PG (I think Pat Beverly is fairly doable if/when he’s healthy) or a forward like Faried, Mirotic, Carroll, or Rudy Gay.

Greatest part with the way Moore has been playing is that we would probably not have to give up much more to make these work


EDIT: and for those that would rather CJ over Jrue, I think last night is a prime example of Jrue’s value. He not only aggressively created his own shot nailing a critical 3 towards the end of regulation and scored the final 2 buckets in OT, but he also only allowed 6 points from Irving in the last 5 mins of regulation and OT combined. In that time Jrue had 2 steals and 1 block on Kyrie making him go 2-8 from the field. And one of Kyrie’s baskets was against AD. Jrue’s defense was a huge reason we won last night

[luckyman]

We've given up 110+ in 5 of our last 6 games, the other being 105 to the Grizzlies. If that's improvement, that's saying something.

Not that it matters much in this case, but for a high pace team like the Pelicans, you should look at defensive efficiency numbers. Not total points per game. That number will seem high regardless of who they play.

[tyler]

I’d trade Moore is we can find an upgrade at PG (I think Pat Beverly is fairly doable) or a forward like Faried, Mirotic, Carroll, or Rudy Gay.

Greatest part with the way Moore has been playing is that we would probably not have to give up much more to make these work


EDIT: and for those that would rather CJ over Jrue, I think last night is a prime example of Jrue’s value. He not only aggressively created his own shot nailing a critical 3 towards the end of regulation and scored the final 2 buckets in OT, but he also only allowed 6 points from Irving in the last 5 mins of regulation and OT combined. In that time Jrue had 2 steals and 1 block on Kyrie making him go 2-8 from the field. And one of Kyrie’s baskets was against AD. Jrue’s defense was a huge reason we won last night

Why trade a guy who knows our system so well and is so important to our offense??? Who needs to go is miller diallo and our first cause miller has been off the last few games.