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Thread: Pelicans VS Grizzlies January 11th

  1. #226
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! AusPel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msw2024 View Post
    STAGE 5
    Except he doesn't get the chance, Gasol swipes down perfectly, in live motion it looks cleaner than that still, and Boogie doesn't have time to get it to Miller
    If you're gonna play the point on that play, the onus is on you to use your peripheral vision to scan and know who's close to you. That includes all and any 40% 3pt shooters.

  2. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    If you're gonna play the point on that play, the onus is on you to use your peripheral vision to scan and know who's close to you. That includes all and any 40% 3pt shooters.
    I stopped arguing when I realized Bricklayer has un conditional love for Cousins and will defend him until the death.


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  3. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    If you're gonna play the point on that play, the onus is on you to use your peripheral vision to scan and know who's close to you. That includes all and any 40% 3pt shooters.
    I would agree -- hence why I said if Alvin Gentry drew up that play with the idea that his 270lb center was going to beat a quicker defender, penetrate the lane and drive and dish accurately, without turning it over or committing an offensive foul, it was a stupid playcall. They have things called guards to do that kind of thing. In fact one particular guard on the floor is pretty brilliant at it. I don't know of any center I'd trust to do it in that situation, Boogie included

    But I rather doubt that play was about "playing point". There were other guys to do that, and Boogie was your hottest and largest 3pt spot shooting option so logically you'd want him to be a kickee not a kicker. And note that Miller was not open until Boogie's hard drive caused Gasol to leave him. If he was going to be the play's intended target you would think there would have been some action to try to get him open coming off a screen. But he was just standing there in one spot. That speaks more to outlet/spacer than it does main option. "Hey Darius, we're running this play for you -- just go stand over there"
    Last edited by Bricklayer; 01-11-2018 at 11:06 PM.

  4. #229
    Charter Member Contributor PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bricklayer View Post
    What does that have to do with that play? He tried to make a play, the Grizz closed the door, and then Gasol took it away. There's nothing headcasey there.
    Plain and simple, he should not have been handling the ball on that type of play in traffic. Poor play call by Gentry.

  5. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Plain and simple, he should not have been handling the ball on that type of play in traffic. Poor play call by Gentry.

    Was arguing the same thing until I saw the replay. But the replay makes more sense. Boogie beat Green and had that corner -- he was going in for the game winning layup/dunk, which would have saved a lot of kvetching here. Then in order to stop that from happening Gasol had to leave a 40% 3pt shooter wide open.

    Like I said somewhere up above, that play definitely could have worked (whether an ice cold Miller could have hit it is another issue) given another couple of seconds. Gasol just saved the day with that swipe.


    P.S. while I want Rondo handling in those situations, there are two problems with that: 1) Rondo doesn't draw the extra attention, thus nobody gets left open; and 2) Rondo is a poor FT shooter, and knows it.. So you give it to him and he gets fouled, and maybe you tie it up or go ahead, or than again maybe you don't.
    Last edited by Bricklayer; 01-11-2018 at 11:36 PM.

  6. #231
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! AusPel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bricklayer View Post
    I would agree -- hence why I said if Alvin Gentry drew up that play with the idea that his 270lb center was going to beat a quicker defender, penetrate the lane and drive and dish accurately, without turning it over or committing an offensive foul, it was a stupid playcall. They have things called guards to do that kind of thing. In fact one particular guard on the floor is pretty brilliant at it. I don't know of any center I'd trust to do it in that situation, Boogie included

    But I rather doubt that play was about "playing point". There were other guys to do that, and Boogie was your hottest and largest 3pt spot shooting option so logically you'd want him to be a kickee not a kicker. And note that Miller was not open until Boogie's hard drive caused Gasol to leave him. If he was going to be the play's intended target you would think there would have been some action to try to get him open coming off a screen. But he was just standing there in one spot. That speaks more to outlet/spacer than it does main option. "Hey Darius, we're running this play for you -- just go stand over there"
    I agree with most of this. Rondo should have been handling the ball, he's just standing around under the bucket for the whole play. What the hell is he doing there. Get him off the court and get Jameer on if he's not going to be a ball handler. Having said that, Rondo was shooting quite well earlier in the game.

    There should also be a general instruction from Gentry to look for open shooters if the double and triple team comes to the ball handler
    Last edited by AusPel; 01-12-2018 at 02:01 AM.

  7. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    There should also be a general instruction from Gentry to look for open shooters if the double and triple team comes to the ball handler
    How do we know that wasn't the instructions? Everyone knew if Cousins got the ball he was going to be doubled or tripled. Let's be realistic, are the odds higher that Gentry didn't tell Cousins to look for the open shooter or did Cousins just blow off the instructions to try and iso his way to the goal? The answer should be pretty clear.

  8. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    How do we know that wasn't the instructions? Everyone knew if Cousins got the ball he was going to be doubled or tripled. Let's be realistic, are the odds higher that Gentry didn't tell Cousins to look for the open shooter or did Cousins just blow off the instructions to try and iso his way to the goal? The answer should be pretty clear.
    That's still a ridiculously biased take on things that can only be arrived at if you come in with a preconceived notion of Boogie.

    You run a 4 out set, or in this case 3 out set, precisely so that your star CAN'T be easily doubled. There were largely stationary three point shooters all around the perimeter to try to hold their defenders away from the lane. And it was working until Gasol made a really big show.

    And the thing is, if Boogie ISN'T getting past Green, and isn't an imminent threat there to rumble down the lane for a dunk to take the lead, then Gasol wouldn't have left Darius. Nobody would have been open. The only reason Darius WAS so open was because Boogie was a huge threat to score which forced Gasol to abandon Miller at the arc. Boogie beating Green was the key to the whole opportunity. It wasn't like Gasol raced over to double Boogie at the start of the possession. He only made that decision when it looked like Boogie was going to get all the way to the rim if Gasol didn't get in there.

    And at the time that Boogie got stripped, he was not trying to score or force it. He was clearly trying to pass it, in particular to Moore in that corner. You can fault him for not seeing Miller quicker, but not for trying to score, without which Miller would never have been open, or for not trying to pass at the end.

    Those plays are always about making the defense make a choice. First you need a star capable of beating his man 1 on 1 to even get them going, but if he is able to do that, then option A is rumble right in and score if they don't stop you. Same rules as a fast break. If they don't stop the ball, take it yourself. If they do stop you, then option B is kick it to whoever they left open to stop you (assuming of course you beat your own man). Take away that swipe and in all liklihood we see just that.
    Last edited by Bricklayer; 01-12-2018 at 08:08 AM.

  9. #234
    Until you admit Cousins had some fault for how the play went down no one is going to take you seriously.

  10. #235
    Charter Member Contributor PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bricklayer View Post
    Was arguing the same thing until I saw the replay. But the replay makes more sense. Boogie beat Green and had that corner -- he was going in for the game winning layup/dunk, which would have saved a lot of kvetching here. Then in order to stop that from happening Gasol had to leave a 40% 3pt shooter wide open.

    Like I said somewhere up above, that play definitely could have worked (whether an ice cold Miller could have hit it is another issue) given another couple of seconds. Gasol just saved the day with that swipe.


    P.S. while I want Rondo handling in those situations, there are two problems with that: 1) Rondo doesn't draw the extra attention, thus nobody gets left open; and 2) Rondo is a poor FT shooter, and knows it.. So you give it to him and he gets fouled, and maybe you tie it up or go ahead, or than again maybe you don't.
    No, the ball should have been in the hands of a ball handler and he head down to the block to see if there was something there. He has shown he cannot handle in traffic and is a turnover waiting to happen.

  11. #236
    Cousins is going to have some big game like 40-15-5 like he always does vs. the Blazers and make us forget his drawbacks for at least a little while.

  12. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    No, the ball should have been in the hands of a ball handler and he head down to the block to see if there was something there. He has shown he cannot handle in traffic and is a turnover waiting to happen.
    I always believe you put the ball in the hands of your best player. I don't think giving Rondo the ball would have worked out because the defense would have slacked off of him and dared him to win with a jumper.

    Now the argument could be made let Jrue initiate the offense, however we saw how that ended already this season. Cousins did the first part of his job, he created a mismatch and beat his player, the problem was he drove with his head down. Head up he would have seen the Gasol rotate before it happened and known right where Miller was.

    I'm sure next time we are in that situation Rondo will get the ball though, Gentry has now tried all 3 of our "big 3" and they all failed at the end. Might as well give Rondo a shot at it. What's the worst thing he can do? Turn the ball over? Lol.

  13. #238
    Charter Member Contributor PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    I always believe you put the ball in the hands of your best player. I don't think giving Rondo the ball would have worked out because the defense would have slacked off of him and dared him to win with a jumper.

    Now the argument could be made let Jrue initiate the offense, however we saw how that ended already this season. Cousins did the first part of his job, he created a mismatch and beat his player, the problem was he drove with his head down. Head up he would have seen the Gasol rotate before it happened and known right where Miller was.

    I'm sure next time we are in that situation Rondo will get the ball though, Gentry has now tried all 3 of our "big 3" and they all failed at the end. Might as well give Rondo a shot at it. What's the worst thing he can do? Turn the ball over? Lol.
    If that player can handle the ball. Cousins is not that player. Holiday probably made the most sense. Let Cousins create his position and then get the ball, not drive to it. If the play was designed for him to shoot a 3 pointer, it would have made more sense. He should not be trying to drive like a guard. Someone like AD makes more sense in that type of situation because he can handle the ball (obviously not a possibility for that game).

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