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Thread: Where do we stand?

  1. #1

    Where do we stand?

    This team is a hot mess, but it wasn't designed in this hot mess fashion. Two years ago we were supposed to be the hot young team centers around AD, Jrue, and Reke. We had the hottest trajectory because we had AD. Fast forward a few years, and we are no closer to being an elite team than we are to being a second tier team. We are middle of the pack at best. With teams like the Bucks, 76ers, Wolves, Jazz, and Nuggets all lapping us in the last two years, where do we really stand?
    If you Jimmer it, they will come.

  2. #2
    Beep Beep England_Hornet's Avatar
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    We won’t be top level if we keep playing lottery team defence....that will only change with a coaching change.

    I genuinely think we’re gonna miss the playoffs this year which is completely inexcusable with the 2 superstars we have and decent supporting cast. We should be top 4 comfortable, not battling 8th.
    '' We are here!!''


  3. #3
    Going to keep pasting the same thing over and over again until it sticks.

    Quote Originally Posted by PelsFan2313 View Post
    If this team sticks with Holiday- AD- Boogie as their core moving forward, they will never make it past the second round of the playoffs. Never. And it would take A LOT of moving pieces to even get to that point.

    Right now? Our ceiling is a 1st round beatdown. Exciting times.

    "I'm not going to allow my putative owner to answer that question, this is an NBA related press conference. Paul Tagliabue and Roger Goodell have collectively sung their praises of Tom and if uh ESPN has a problem with that tell Mr. Skipper to call me at my office."

  4. #4
    Beep Beep England_Hornet's Avatar
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    Nobody outside the GSW and the cavs are winning it for the next few years anyway... maybe Houston or Boston...

    So...what do you do? Keep trying and getting not very far and maybe second round at best... or do you dump assets to acquire picks for ...6 years from now and become major free agent players when Lebron and Steph and harden etc get old and the doorway to the finals opens up

  5. #5
    Trading AD isn't sounding like such a blasphemy as it once did... imagine a nice rebuilding package of Tatum and a top pick like Ayton, Doncic, Porter, Bagley, Bomba, etc. (Celtics have Lakers pick if it's 2-5). Still would be awkward with Jrue, Hill, Moore here, but they could be traded too, or do a min re-build retool like Pacers did.

    In the off-season if Pels flop in playoffs and see it's not going to work with AD, Cousins signs elsewhere or sign-n-trade, and the Lakers finish between 2-5 in the lottery....

    AD and Asik for Tatum, Horford, Lakers pick

    Horford
    Hill / Diallo
    Tatum / Miller
    Holiday / Moore
    Doncic*/ Frank J

    Horford could be re-routed to a 3rd team for further young players and picks, as well as Holiday, Moore, and Hill if they really wanted to embrace the tank and re-build with all young players. Might actually be more fun and exciting to follow than the current path they've been going.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by England_Hornet View Post
    We won’t be top level if we keep playing lottery team defence....that will only change with a coaching change.

    I genuinely think we’re gonna miss the playoffs this year which is completely inexcusable with the 2 superstars we have and decent supporting cast. We should be top 4 comfortable, not battling 8th.
    the decency of the supporting cast is very much in question -- when you have one of the Towers out there surrounded by Dante Cunningham, Darius Miller, Ian Clark and Jameer Nelson what are we really talking about? A guy back from Europe, the Warriors' 12th man, a 35yr old signed off of waivers, and a guy signed in the last days of the offseason for the minimum because nobody else wanted him?

    But that said, yes, 2 big stars and a 3rd guy in Jrue playing well there should be more here. And yes, coaching and philosophy have something to do with it.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Rheem654 View Post
    Trading AD isn't sounding like such a blasphemy as it once did... imagine a nice rebuilding package of Tatum and a top pick like Ayton, Doncic, Porter, Bagley, Bomba, etc. (Celtics have Lakers pick if it's 2-5). Still would be awkward with Jrue, Hill, Moore here, but they could be traded too, or do a min re-build retool like Pacers did.

    In the off-season if Pels flop in playoffs and see it's not going to work with AD, Cousins signs elsewhere or sign-n-trade, and the Lakers finish between 2-5 in the lottery....

    AD and Asik for Tatum, Horford, Lakers pick

    Horford
    Hill / Diallo
    Tatum / Miller
    Holiday / Moore
    Doncic*/ Frank J

    Horford could be re-routed to a 3rd team for further young players and picks, as well as Holiday, Moore, and Hill if they really wanted to embrace the tank and re-build with all young players. Might actually be more fun and exciting to follow than the current path they've been going.
    It's still a blasphemy. Small market fans wanting to trade away their HOF centerpieces are always 100% committing blasphemy. The whole, ENTIRE, reason for a small market team to even exist is to get Anthony Davis. Never in a 100 years, never in a 1000, will you ever have a chance to win it all without a player of that caliber. Without that superstar you are just a glorified G-League franchise, a non-threatening Washington Generals to get slapped around by your betters and pad their win stats. That cute little team down in...New Orleans was it?Aww...the Pelicans, how cute! Maybe they will pat you on the head and put some snacks down in your doggie bowl on their way back out of the arena after they honor you with another beatdown. So now you not only have one star who can threaten them, but actually 2, in town right now, and they're not old either. So you tank and win 20 games and get draft pick after draft pick all to draft...another guy as good as Anthony Davis? Because you are living in powerball fever fantasy land if you think you just walk out to the draft and start drafting guys better. He's at the very least, the very LEAST, a Top 50 player of all time assuming he does not fall apart.

    This, like it was in Sacto, is actually time for the fans to suck it up as much as the franchise. Things are not as awful as all that. The very toughest thing to do in all of the NBA is get a superstar. You have 2. The hard part is accomplished. Everything else is achievable once you have that base. That is what the entire history of the league says.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Bricklayer View Post
    It's still a blasphemy. Small market fans wanting to trade away their HOF centerpieces are always 100% committing blasphemy. The whole, ENTIRE, reason for a small market team to even exist is to get Anthony Davis. Never in a 100 years, never in a 1000, will you ever have a chance to win it all without a player of that caliber. Without that superstar you are just a glorified G-League franchise, a non-threatening Washington Generals to get slapped around by your betters and pad their win stats. That cute little team down in...New Orleans was it?Aww...the Pelicans, how cute! Maybe they will pat you on the head and put some snacks down in your doggie bowl on their way back out of the arena after they honor you with another beatdown. So now you not only have one star who can threaten them, but actually 2, in town right now, and they're not old either. So you tank and win 20 games and get draft pick after draft pick all to draft...another guy as good as Anthony Davis? Because you are living in powerball fever fantasy land if you think you just walk out to the draft and start drafting guys better. He's at the very least, the very LEAST, a Top 50 player of all time assuming he does not fall apart.

    This, like it was in Sacto, is actually time for the fans to suck it up as much as the franchise. Things are not as awful as all that. The very toughest thing to do in all of the NBA is get a superstar. You have 2. The hard part is accomplished. Everything else is achievable once you have that base. That is what the entire history of the league says.
    I get your point. Counterpoint- name a HOF superstar who has never won a playoff game...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Rheem654 View Post
    I get your point. Counterpoint- name a HOF superstar who has never won a playoff game...
    By age 24? A great many. Patrick Ewing comes to mind. David Robinson for that matter didn't even reach the league until A.D.'s age. TMac. Nash possibly, and certainly did not win any as his team's lead PG until he was after 25.

    As always, much of that is circumstance. If A.D. is drafted by the Spurs, he's won a ton of playoff games by the time he is 22.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bricklayer View Post
    By age 24? A great many. Patrick Ewing comes to mind. David Robinson for that matter didn't even reach the league until A.D.'s age. TMac. Nash possibly, and certainly did not win any as his team's lead PG until he was after 25.

    As always, much of that is circumstance. If A.D. is drafted by the Spurs, he's won a ton of playoff games by the time he is 22.
    Good points, but that's quite a short list there, and all whose primes were more than 10-20 years ago. And how many of those won big with the team that drafted them? Seems like a lot of cases where stars start going deep in the playoffs after leaving the team they were drafted to.

    Also, the NBA is a whole different league now where guards and wings affect the game on a whole different level than even star bigs can do. When was the last time a big man lead his team deep in the playoffs as the best player on his team? Dwight Howard? He made the conference finals with a mediocre supporting cast like Jameer and Turkaglou. I guess he was a bit older and probably better coaching than the Pels currently have.

    And that circumstance is a big point. We're not the Spurs and we don't have Popavich. This franchise hasn't been able to put a good enough supporting cast of players and coach around him, but I guess we can hope they can sometime in the next year or two before his contract runs out, or he gets disgruntled enough to pull a Kyrie and request a trade.
    ----

    I want to be hopeful for sure. Can you talk about some hypothetical scenarios where the Pelicans can get at least to the levels of the Clippers of the last few years, 2nd round of playoffs or better?

  11. #11
    REAL men play BASS Contributor MSU-Sousaphone's Avatar
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    But what if we tried not to overreact?


    Continuity.

  12. #12
    I guess there's plenty reasons to hope. Optimistic best-case scenario:

    1) Solomon comes back healthy, and helps bring the defense up to at least an average, respectable level.
    2) Dell makes a great trade at the deadline to clear Asik and get a solid contributor who fits like a glove. Lou-Will?
    3) With Solo in the starting line-up and the addition of incoming new player, the bench starts providing a lot more help led by Moore and Miller. Hopefully new player can reduce the playing time of Nelson and even Rondo.
    4) Team starts gelling to close out the season, play with a newfound fire and passion playing up to their potential.
    5) We get the 6th or 5th seed, avoid playing the Rockets/Warriors in the first round. Manage to win a few playoff games vs. the Spurs, Thunder, or T'Wolves, and possibly even pull off the upset series win.

    ---
    Off-season:
    1) Let Gentry and Dell go. Hire new GM and coach that fans and players can feel confident about leading in the right direction.
    2) Re-sign Boogie to the big contract.
    3) Sign better role-players with the remaining cap-space. Not sure if we will be able to use the MLE or if that will put them in the lux tax. Rondo shouldn't be a priority to re-sign. Great passer, poor defender and shooter, not gonna cut it in today's game as a starter. If he wants to re-sign in a reduced back-up/ mentor role for the vet min., then sure.
    4) Have a full healthy off-season and training camp with new good GM, new coach with a clear, effective vision and motivational leadership, Boogie re-signed giving them a feeling of stability and less distraction, increased team chemistry, better role-players surrounding AD/DC/JH.
    5) Get of to great start next season, play up to potential, no more excuses, go deep in playoffs.

  13. #13
    Charter Member Contributor PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheem654 View Post
    Good points, but that's quite a short list there, and all whose primes were more than 10-20 years ago. And how many of those won big with the team that drafted them? Seems like a lot of cases where stars start going deep in the playoffs after leaving the team they were drafted to.

    Also, the NBA is a whole different league now where guards and wings affect the game on a whole different level than even star bigs can do. When was the last time a big man lead his team deep in the playoffs as the best player on his team? Dwight Howard? He made the conference finals with a mediocre supporting cast like Jameer and Turkaglou. I guess he was a bit older and probably better coaching than the Pels currently have.

    And that circumstance is a big point. We're not the Spurs and we don't have Popavich. This franchise hasn't been able to put a good enough supporting cast of players and coach around him, but I guess we can hope they can sometime in the next year or two before his contract runs out, or he gets disgruntled enough to pull a Kyrie and request a trade.
    ----

    I want to be hopeful for sure. Can you talk about some hypothetical scenarios where the Pelicans can get at least to the levels of the Clippers of the last few years, 2nd round of playoffs or better?
    I never understand why some fans want to trade away a star player for a bunch of unknowns. What are you hoping for in that draft pick? Would you not be ecstatic with a player the caliber of Anthony Davis? I think the whole video game/fantasy league mentality sometimes takes over the thought process.

  14. #14
    Hey maybe we just need a new coach and GM who KNOW what they are doing.

  15. #15
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    I never understand why some fans want to trade away a star player for a bunch of unknowns. What are you hoping for in that draft pick? Would you not be ecstatic with a player the caliber of Anthony Davis? I think the whole video game/fantasy league mentality sometimes takes over the thought process.
    It's like the concept of the backup QB being the favorite player on a losing team. You know the current QB is capable of so much, but what if the other guys is even better and the idiot coaches don't know it somehow?

  16. #16
    At the end of the season hand the reigns over to JVG.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by PelsFan2313 View Post
    Going to keep pasting the same thing over and over again until it sticks.
    Keep posting. I’m in agreement. People always yell at me when I say that if AD is your best you will never win a championship. The Pels have to get a dynamic guard/wing player to get them over the hump. This team as it is constructed is a 1st round exit at best imo.
    The most overused words on Pelicansreport.com. Wrongly, I might add.

    ELITE - (often used with a plural verb) the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.

    GREAT - notable; remarkable; exceptionally outstanding

    These words should not be used lightly

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Rheem654 View Post
    Trading AD isn't sounding like such a blasphemy as it once did... imagine a nice rebuilding package of Tatum and a top pick like Ayton, Doncic, Porter, Bagley, Bomba, etc. (Celtics have Lakers pick if it's 2-5). Still would be awkward with Jrue, Hill, Moore here, but they could be traded too, or do a min re-build retool like Pacers did.

    In the off-season if Pels flop in playoffs and see it's not going to work with AD, Cousins signs elsewhere or sign-n-trade, and the Lakers finish between 2-5 in the lottery....

    AD and Asik for Tatum, Horford, Lakers pick

    Horford
    Hill / Diallo
    Tatum / Miller
    Holiday / Moore
    Doncic*/ Frank J

    Horford could be re-routed to a 3rd team for further young players and picks, as well as Holiday, Moore, and Hill if they really wanted to embrace the tank and re-build with all young players. Might actually be more fun and exciting to follow than the current path they've been going.
    If the Pels trade AD, Holiday has to be a part of that deal. You won’t get equal value back so you need to attach a bad contract to the trade.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Bricklayer View Post
    It's still a blasphemy. Small market fans wanting to trade away their HOF centerpieces are always 100% committing blasphemy. The whole, ENTIRE, reason for a small market team to even exist is to get Anthony Davis. Never in a 100 years, never in a 1000, will you ever have a chance to win it all without a player of that caliber. Without that superstar you are just a glorified G-League franchise, a non-threatening Washington Generals to get slapped around by your betters and pad their win stats. That cute little team down in...New Orleans was it?Aww...the Pelicans, how cute! Maybe they will pat you on the head and put some snacks down in your doggie bowl on their way back out of the arena after they honor you with another beatdown. So now you not only have one star who can threaten them, but actually 2, in town right now, and they're not old either. So you tank and win 20 games and get draft pick after draft pick all to draft...another guy as good as Anthony Davis? Because you are living in powerball fever fantasy land if you think you just walk out to the draft and start drafting guys better. He's at the very least, the very LEAST, a Top 50 player of all time assuming he does not fall apart.

    This, like it was in Sacto, is actually time for the fans to suck it up as much as the franchise. Things are not as awful as all that. The very toughest thing to do in all of the NBA is get a superstar. You have 2. The hard part is accomplished. Everything else is achievable once you have that base. That is what the entire history of the league says.
    What’s blasphemy is saying that a guy who can’t stay healthy and has won anything is a hall of famer. Let’s slow our role on that one.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    I never understand why some fans want to trade away a star player for a bunch of unknowns. What are you hoping for in that draft pick? Would you not be ecstatic with a player the caliber of Anthony Davis? I think the whole video game/fantasy league mentality sometimes takes over the thought process.
    If said star player hasn’t won anything for your organization and you trade him for a future commodity that hasn’t won anything, what’s the difference? I get that you shouldn’t trade a generational player but if I can trade them for a better future and a more well rounded team, I’d do it. If Boogie resigns, you’ll have AD, Boogie, and Holiday and nothing else. That is not the recipe for success.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by UptownFuz504 View Post
    What’s blasphemy is saying that a guy who can’t stay healthy and has won anything is a hall of famer. Let’s slow our role on that one.
    That's not blasphemy, that's knowing the league and it's history.

    A great many fans of this team seem to really not understand just how spectacular a set of players they have here. The potential special of this moment.

    A.D. has the 4th highest PER of all time, just behind Michael, LeBron, Mikan, and just ahead of Shaq. A.D. has career averages of 22.7pts 10.2reb. Cousins has career averages of 21.5pts 10.9reb. Every single other player who has averaged 20-10 is in the HOF (with the exception of some guy named Alex Groza who did it in a 1yr career in 1950-51).

  22. #22
    Pass-First Point Center Caffeinedisastr's Avatar
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    Dell is the problem.
    Dell has always been the problem.

    Got a half-court coach that runs sets (Monty)?
    Let's put a bunch of guys in there for a fast-paced offense and NO defense.

    Got a fast-paced offense coach (Gentry)?
    We need more defenders and let's play iso with Boogie.

    How many players on this team other than top 3 (Jrue/Davis/Boogie) are on a player team rotation?

    It STARTS & ENDS at the top.
    Goodbye Dell!

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Bricklayer View Post
    That's not blasphemy, that's knowing the league and it's history.

    A great many fans of this team seem to really not understand just how spectacular a set of players they have here. The potential special of this moment.

    A.D. has the 4th highest PER of all time, just behind Michael, LeBron, Mikan, and just ahead of Shaq. A.D. has career averages of 22.7pts 10.2reb. Cousins has career averages of 21.5pts 10.9reb. Every single other player who has averaged 20-10 is in the HOF (with the exception of some guy named Alex Groza who did it in a 1yr career in 1950-51).
    Totally agreed. Whether or not you think that his team's have met your baseline for success, AD is already a hall of fame lock. Remember that HoF in basketball isn't just NBA, it's total career.

    At this point AD is: 4x All-star (will be 5 in about eight days)
    ASG MVP
    2x All NBA
    2x All Defense
    2x Blocks Leader
    NCAA champion
    NCAA Final Four Most Outstanding Player
    First team All American
    NABC DPOY
    With career averages of 20/10, will be a franchise all time leader in at least 4 different categories by the end of this contract, with shoes in multiple MVP and DPOY races, and a career 26.8 PER: that is HoF. No question at all. Zero doubt. Say what you like about his team success but AD is already a lock hall of famer.

    "Kahwi Leonard will be a Pelican. Please make me a signature." - Silverfoxx

  24. #24
    The Franchise
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    AD is awesome. If you gave me a choice I'm throwing everyone but him first before I trade him. Now if he comes to you wanting to leave then and only then do I consider moving him.

  25. #25
    I'm calling it now, with two superstar players, and a host of skilled players, we have gone from being the Timberwolves, 76ers, Bucks, and Jazz superior to be at best a tier below all of them.

    This team has a bleak future, and it's sad to say that considering we have two of the top 25 players in the NBA.

    #Pelslife

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