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I'm assuming we're giving the pick to Kings. I'll be looking at who gets top picks and whether or not they have PG's on their roster that could become available via trade, or whether they were considered potential landing spots for Jrue.Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
If 76ers and/or Knicks land top 2 picks, those are teams that will likely no longer be in the Jrue Holiday market. If Suns, Magic, Pistons, or Hornets land top picks they could put their PG's on the trade market.
Which is what makes it a bad argument. That's the whole point. If you think someone should be fired because of circumstances beyond their control, you aren't making a good point.
I didn't want to keep Monty either (as I thought he was more a "starter" coach than a "take you to the next level" coach), but you are right, this is a team built for Monty's half court system.
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
How did the comment you referred to relate to anything out of their control? I think the poster said if the team doesn't win and Gentry get fired, then Cousins leaves. In theory, isn't that within the coach's control?
So is your argument that Dell shouldn't have made the trade for Cousins because of perceived fit by fans?
As far as Gentry's system I'm going to assume you haven't listened to the podcast he was on. He talks just this topic.
What's a kit glove? Is that where you have to put it together yourself?
How is stability a strength when it's been stable losing due to poor decision making? Demps is considered to be in the bottom 3rd of the league same as Gentry yet people think it's smart to retain them because Cousins like them. You want the best people you can attract running your franchise. Is the argument that Gentry and Demps the best we can do If not they should have been let go. It's really that simple.
Because he keeps mentioning starting 0-8 like previous years and leaving things into the hands of NBA schedule Gods. Why did we start 0-8? Surely it wasn't because Jrue, Tyreke, Pon were all injured?
If you truly believe the team is going to have a record like that again, you believe that there will be external circumstances like the previous years that impact what is going on.
Oh the injuries excuse. Didn't Memphis have injuries too? Yet they made it to playoffs. Quit blaming injuries.
Heck with what the fans want, what does Demps want? He wanted Gentry, but then proceeded to give Gentry pieces that didn't fit his system. Sure Gentry can say that his system can fit AD and Boogie, but like his record shows, it probably wont be anything of note.
Last edited by UNO Gracias; 05-16-2017 at 12:29 PM.
The Jazz had injuries too.
But QPon is MJ and Lebron all rolled into one, so you know if he was healthy we would be dominating games from the jump.
Memphis and Utah both lost less games to injuries and are deeper teams. And you don't need to be MJ to not go 0-8. When Jrue came back, did the Pels go 0-82 or did their win percentage rise significantly? Don't be obtuse.
I guess you can be obtuse, or you can have your head in the clouds. This alternative record thing is the latter.
Jazz were 33-16 when Hill played, 18-15 without. And you want to claim injuries don't matter. That's being obtuse.
They missed Hayward for 9 games, Favors for 30, Hood for 23, they missed more than just Hill, and they still made the playoffs. I know that we dealt with injuries, but nothing that extensive to our key players.
I'm kind of hesitant to include Jrue Holiday as a "key" player. Maybe it's the recency bias in me but it's obvious he doesn't have that clutch gene in him. Outside of AD and Cousins our roster is straight crap. Solomon Hill was a bad signing for a starting SF and Moore is decent but better off the bench IMO. Frazier is just Frazier, enough said.
Because they are a deeper and better team. They weren't missing all their key players at once, and when they were, they lost those games. Your point has the underlying assumption that the two rosters are equal. The Pelicans, at full strength had a ceiling of maybe 41 wins. The Jazz had a ceiling over 60+.
That has more to do with players than it does coaching. If you expect a coach to squeeze out playoffs while starting Frazier, Moore, Hill, Davis, and Asik early in the season, you are expecting a miracle.
So again, you're saying they shouldn't have traded for Cousins because of fear of fit?
And again, you clearly haven't listened to the podcast because Gentry didn't say his system would fit AD and Cousins. He said he was going to adjust the system to fit them. You should really go listen to it.
Again, the point would be that after the Cousins trade abruptly that duo is involved in the franchise moving in the right direction. And Cousins liking them is quite significant given that his acquisition is the reason the franchise suddenly is moving in the right direction and he's a FA after the season.
If you are starting a team from scratch, and its like a computer game where all the league's coaches and GMs are thrown out into free agency for everybody to bid on, do you take Gentry or Demps? Absolutely not.
If the Cousins trade doesn't come about and the team just waddles on home with a bunch of questions and no clear route forward, do you keep Gentry and Demps? Absolutely not.
But that's not what happened. Demps pulled a rabbit out a hat, Gentry surprised a bit by starting to make it work, and all of a sudden those two guys are involved in a little something positive and earned themselves a brief reprieve to prove they can build on it. to say that this next season will be absolutely pivotal for almost everybody involved is an understatement.
No, you make the trade for Cousins every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Top 10 talent doesn't come along every day. I am also saying if you are making that trade you make sure that you have a coach who has a system for those two guys. Gentry is replaceable, Boogie isn't.
If what your saying is true (the team at best was 41 wins) then you for sure can Demps as he has had 7 years to build it, and 5 of those 7 with a top 5 talent.
41 was the ceiling last year. The three years before it was probably around 50. Closer to 43, 50, 50. What happened in those years? Injuries. The healthiest of the three, they won 45. So do you want to credit Dell for building a team that had ceiling of around 50ish wins, or do you want to fault him for circumstances outside his control?
And the idea that AD has been a top 5 talent for all 5 of his years as a player is silly.
Right. So you can't blame Dell for not getting talent that fits the coach when you can't turn down a Cousins trade.
We trade 3 guards that were good for Gentry's system for a big. It was going to take time.
As far as Gentry and whatever system he runs, how can you say that the system he is implementing this summer won't fit Cousins and AD? He's already acknowledged he has a plan and knows what he wants to run with them, and it is different from a guard heavy system.
Seem to be giving a lot of benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately we are what the record says we are. Every team has to deal with injuries. Had the team been built well, we would have had depth to mitigate the injuries somewhat. We are not dealing with a small sample size. 7 years is a lifetime in sports management. Regardless, hopefully he is able to build around AD and Cousins quickly such that we can keep an built on the best talent we have had in years.
Sorry, he has been a top 5 for the last 3 years.
Yes, you can Demps if he has a poor record for the last 7 years. His body of work looks like it went 10 rounds with Floyd Mayweather.
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