Dell/Gentry staying and Jrue turns down big offer {speculation}

[Mythrol]

I don't see how you can knock Dell for not moving Jrue. Before the Boogie trade, moving Jrue was unthinkable. After the trade, it would have been stupid not to see what the "big three" looked like. Also don't think Jrue has turned anything down. More like hasn't accepted anything.

This is my exact take on not trading Jrue.

The only way I would have done it is of we knew for sure he had already said he was going to walk. But after the Boogie trade he seemed excited.

Let's see how it plays out.

[tthier2]

Yeah! I believe him. That would have been a horrible trade. I'm sure they would have lost alot of fans if that trade would have happened.

I don't believe anything McNamara says. He also said we put in an offer for brand at 10 mil and I think Dallas got him for 1.8

[da ThRONe]

No need to kill Demps based on what could have happened when what he's already done is more than enough.

[Silverfoxx]

The more I see Buddy playing without a leash on him the more I realize the Boogie trade was a potential disaster. Hield isn't the star Boogie is, I know. But he is a dead eye shooter and we gave away a top 10 pick as well in a loaded draft. Then we also gave away Tyreke Evans while we had his bird rights and were inevitably not going to have cap room to sign a big name.

I'll be interested to see what Demps can manufacture this offseason. But if the team loses Jrue because they won't pay the max, misses the playoffs from lack of depth, and loses Cousins then I think Dell will go down as the most shortsighted GM since Billy King.

I still don't understand the rush to put a superstar with AD now while GS and the LeBrons are in their prime. Not going to beat them, ESPECIALLY while selling our underpaid/over-delivering young guys and losing any RFA advantage we have down the road.

So short sighted. I can't believe they kept Hield on such a tight leash. It isn't the first time I've seen it here either.

Anyways. Yes Demps made 1 trade, yes the Pels had 1 good month of basketball. That month we managed to beat Houston, Portland and Memphis, the rest of the wins were easy schedule material. Lets not get ahead of ourselves. We're in a corner. The market will demand Jrue gets a max and unless he's charitable to the Pels we will lose him.

I just don't see the positives unless we manage to keep Jrue and Hill turns himself into a positive force on both ends. I think there is a small chance of it happening, but yea, not skipping through the pastures carefree about this team at all.

TBH this draft is massively overated and riddled with injured players. I'm not losing any sleep over not choosing the PF from Arizona.

I would do that boogie trade every time.

[luckyman]

I don't believe anything McNamara says. He also said we put in an offer for brand at 10 mil and I think Dallas got him for 1.8

Also that Dell would give up a 2017 1st for Brook Lopez plus a 2018 for that forward in Toronto, then used the Cousins trade as validation. As if those trades are even in the same stratosphere.

But people just love rumors. Especially if it paints someone they already don't like in a worse picture.

[UNO Gracias]

To be honest, I am not sure who we could replace the two of them with. Certainly there are more qualified candidates, but if we haven't heard any rumblings yet, I am sure we will run it back with Dumb and Dumber. We can't get out of our own way sometimes.

Regarding Jrue, "If he dies, he dies." Seriously, I could go either way on him right now, but I certainly can't get behind giving him $20m, thats just too damn much, for that damn little.

[NMThreeMVP]

Dell is a problem. Gentry is not.

Did anyone see the report that the Jazz gave Snyder a 5 year extension LAST YEAR, after 2 losing seasons? I think we'd be smart to let go of Dell, but let the new GM make the decision on Gentry. Coaching continuity (especially with Cousins on board) is critically important, whereas management continuity at this point is less so. Especially if the consensus is the Jrue is leaving.

I think Gentry should stay, but if we hire the right GM and he thinks otherwise I won't hold it against him. IMO, Gentry is every bit the coach Snyder is, and would prove it if he gets a PG and a healthy training camp to start the season and build momentum instead of having to fight uphill because we're missing key pieces early.

[PELICANSFAN]

IMO, Gentry is every bit the coach Snyder is,

Based on what though? He is in his 60s and has not proven it yet.

[UNO Gracias]

Dell is a problem. Gentry is not.

Did anyone see the report that the Jazz gave Snyder a 5 year extension LAST YEAR, after 2 losing seasons? I think we'd be smart to let go of Dell, but let the new GM make the decision on Gentry. Coaching continuity (especially with Cousins on board) is critically important, whereas management continuity at this point is less so. Especially if the consensus is the Jrue is leaving.

I think Gentry should stay, but if we hire the right GM and he thinks otherwise I won't hold it against him. IMO, Gentry is every bit the coach Snyder is, and would prove it if he gets a PG and a healthy training camp to start the season and build momentum instead of having to fight uphill because we're missing key pieces early.

Ha! ____ that noise. Have you seen the injuries that the Jazz dealt with this season, and they still made it to the playoffs as a top 5 seed. The Jazz dealt with more injuries across the board than we did, and they still made it. Snyder is an up and coming coach, Gentry is a retread. A one trick pony who is spent. Dude got the job here because he showed Demps some charts, and because he was the "Mastermind" behind Golden States success. Turns out Demps is incompetent, and Gentry's masterful system in GS had more to do with players being elite than it did with it being a good system.

[NMThreeMVP]

Based on what though? He is in his 60s and has not proven it yet.

I think it's easy (and ultimately in the grand scheme of things appropriate) to judge coaches based on wins and losses. When I go to games and see Gentry call a timeout because he sees something, and then the Pelicans actually execute it and get an easy bucket, it's hard to say the guy is clueless. I think the style of offense that he has traditionally pushed (space and pace), is exactly the direction the NBA has gone which demonstrates IMO that he was traditionally ahead of the curve. I think the fact that Steve Kerr selected him as head coach when Kerr was a GM, and then again selected him as his lead assistant when he became a 1st time HC, indicates that he has earned the respect of someone who is generally thought of to be an astute basketball mind. His month of March, and how he began to use Boogie and AD together once they got some film and practices to work with, is also promising.

None of that may satisfy those who only look to wins and losses, but from what I've seen I don't think Gentry is any less a coach than Snyder. People crap on Gentry because of his overall win %, but does anyone really think Snyder (or Jesus) would have done a better job coaching the Donald Sterling Clippers? If Gentry had stayed in Golden State, he'd be the one leading the sweep of the Jazz over Snyder and not Mike Brown.

It's a little harder to do because of fan and business pressures, but coaches really ought be evaluated more contextually than wins and losses. I'm sure, coming off of back to back losing seasons that the Jazz considered more than just win% when they gave Snyder his 5 year extension. I'm just trying to do the same with Gentry, who easily has the coaching chops to steer this team into a 5th seed next year, which is exactly what Snyder did.

[NMThreeMVP]

Ha! ____ that noise. Have you seen the injuries that the Jazz dealt with this season, and they still made it to the playoffs as a top 5 seed. The Jazz dealt with more injuries across the board than we did, and they still made it. Snyder is an up and coming coach, Gentry is a retread. A one trick pony who is spent. Dude got the job here because he showed Demps some charts, and because he was the "Mastermind" behind Golden States success. Turns out Demps is incompetent, and Gentry's masterful system in GS had more to do with players being elite than it did with it being a good system.

Jazz are a different team than we are. A deeper team. That's on Dell, and that goes all the way back to Utah getting more for D-Will than what the Pelicans got for Chris Paul.

Snyder had a .475 win % after his first 2 years. The drastic improvement was 2 games from year 1 to year 2, but it was still a losing record. Did that qualify him as up and coming and justify his five year extension or did they look beyond wins and losses. Snyder definitely broke through in year 3, but I don't know why anyone thinks Gentry couldn't as well. The guy should get his 3rd year.

In the NBA, it's always about players and secondarily a marriage with system. Everyone thought Phil Jackson was a genius when he was running the triangle with GOATs and HOF players. Now, not so much.

[UNO Gracias]

Snyder had a losing record in year 1, but he didn't bomb. In year 2 he improved (and yes, he did have a losing record), and that showed he was making progress with an extremely young team (Snyder's first two years with the Jazz, the Jazz were the youngest team in the NBA, look it up). The management didn't have to extend him, but they saw progress. What you are seeing here is not progress, you are just seeing the results of 1 generational talent thrown on the court without a system. Add a proper system for him to play in, and you will see much better results.

[NMThreeMVP]

Snyder had a losing record in year 1, but he didn't bomb. In year 2 he improved (and yes, he did have a losing record), and that showed he was making progress with an extremely young team (Snyder's first two years with the Jazz, the Jazz were the youngest team in the NBA, look it up). The management didn't have to extend him, but they saw progress. What you are seeing here is not progress, you are just seeing the results of 1 generational talent thrown on the court without a system. Add a proper system for him to play in, and you will see much better results.

This sounds great. But it's hella non specific. What system do you think would be better for two bigs, neither of whom like to bang, than the one Gentry came up with on the fly in March?

This team would be great and Gentry (hell, even Monty) would be succeeding if Jrue Holiday was the player equal to the value Dell gave up to get him. But he's not. Isiah Thomas could have been had for less than what Dell gave up to get Jrue and we'd be a playoff team. We'd be a legit contender with Boogie, AD, and Thomas. We'd be a playoff team if Dell had traded for Dragic, Lowery, Bledsoe, Hill, Teague, Rubio, McCullum, Bradley, Lin or a handful of other players who would have contributed more than Jrue over the last 3 years. Jrue has been as big a dud as Gordon, but he's more likable so isn't criticized as much.

This clusterfluck is on Dell, not Gentry

[tdcreator]

I understand if they run it back with Dell and gentry but I could also see them move on from them. The only thing is if your going to move them it better be to upgrade them. At this point you really can't grab a college guy and he'd have to be someone Cousins likes to make sure we can resign him.

As for Jrue, I'm ok with 20-22 million anything more try and sign and trade him. I know it may not be easy but once a player decides he wants to go to a team, there are ways to make the money work especially if they close to the cap.

I really think Davis and Cousins could bring us to the playoffs by themselves, so as long as no team crippling contracts are signed this offseason we should be ok.

[UNO Gracias]

This sounds great. But it's hella non specific. What system do you think would be better for two bigs, neither of whom like to bang, than the one Gentry came up with on the fly in March?

This team would be great and Gentry (hell, even Monty) would be succeeding if Jrue Holiday was the player equal to the value Dell gave up to get him. But he's not. Isiah Thomas could have been had for less than what Dell gave up to get Jrue and we'd be a playoff team. We'd be a legit contender with Boogie, AD, and Thomas. We'd be a playoff team if Dell had traded for Dragic, Lowery, Bledsoe, Hill, Teague, Rubio, McCullum, Bradley, Lin or a handful of other players who would have contributed more than Jrue over the last 3 years. Jrue has been as big a dud as Gordon, but he's more likable so isn't criticized as much.

This clusterfluck is on Dell, not Gentry

What system would be better for two bigs? Probably not the one that is guard oriented. NEXT!

I am not sure how anyone can put any sort of confidence in Gentry, unless you are Demps. Demps has to trust Gentry, because Gentry's success will be the demise of Demps as an NBA GM.

[NMThreeMVP]

What system would be better for two bigs? Probably not the one that is guard oriented. NEXT!

I am not sure how anyone can put any sort of confidence in Gentry, unless you are Demps. Demps has to trust Gentry, because Gentry's success will be the demise of Demps as an NBA GM.

It was a trick question. These are unique players and not traditional bigs. Ya'll probably would have forced Dallas to play Dirk in the post too. Or struggled to understand why D'Antoni and Gentry didn't force Amare to play with his back to the basket. Cousins needs to get in better shape, and apparently had an injury that was bothering him, but he and Davis fit perfectly into what Gentry is doing as they demonstrated once they got a couple of games and practices behind them to figure it out. The numbers don't lie!

The problem with Gentry's system, is that it does require a certain type of PG , and Jrue Holiday hasn't demonstrated that he's capable of being that guy. Get Gentry a better PG, doesn't have to be ALL NBA talent -just a better fit, and this team will be top 5 in offense next year.

Demps is terrible and he should go. But a new GM, if he's smart, would ride it out with Gentry going into next season.

[tdcreator]

The problem I have is both Demps and Gentry can't adjust to their talent. Demps hired gentry to run an uptempo style but gave him ball control/defensive players. So either Demps failed on the hire or on getting Gentry players to fit scheme but either way it's a fail.

Gentry to me failed in just not being able to adjust. Your a professional coach, you should be able to run multiple schemes inside a game. It's all about match ups and slowing down the other team. If you get to Golden State level or the cavs, then you can kind of dictate but even then you should be able to adjust.

The main thing is finding a GM/Coach that can adjust. I think Loomis lets SP do what he wants since its SP butt if he doesn't perform. You can almost do the same thing except there's so fewer player in the nba. I'd say the GM gets you big name studs that you surround with talent (i.e. Davis and Cousins), then let the coach help decide on the pieces. Of course this is with a coach that can handle the stars. I just think we have a coach and a GM set in their ways and that's not good for the team.

[NMThreeMVP]

The problem I have is both Demps and Gentry can't adjust to their talent. Demps hired gentry to run an uptempo style but gave him ball control/defensive players. So either Demps failed on the hire or on getting Gentry players to fit scheme but either way it's a fail.

Gentry to me failed in just not being able to adjust. Your a professional coach, you should be able to run multiple schemes inside a game. It's all about match ups and slowing down the other team. If you get to Golden State level or the cavs, then you can kind of dictate but even then you should be able to adjust.

The main thing is finding a GM/Coach that can adjust. I think Loomis lets SP do what he wants since its SP butt if he doesn't perform. You can almost do the same thing except there's so fewer player in the nba. I'd say the GM gets you big name studs that you surround with talent (i.e. Davis and Cousins), then let the coach help decide on the pieces. Of course this is with a coach that can handle the stars. I just think we have a coach and a GM set in their ways and that's not good for the team.

I guess I strongly disagree with the part about Gentry. This team went 10-6 in March, after trading away players that got significant minutes, calling up D-League guys, and incorporating a second big on the fly.

Our starting lineup to start the season was Asik, Davis, Hill, Moore, and Frazier. That's terrible. Did anyone expect that lineup to be able to win running Gentry's system, or any NBA system for that matter!? And our bench was also garbage. We started the season with a bottom 5 roster. Easily. If not worse. It only got marginally better when Jrue Holiday came back, but you could clearly see at that point what a difference players make. Players are more important than coaching in the regular season. Coaching only comes close to mattering as much as having the better players when it gets to playoff matchups.

If you tell me a coach could have done better under the same circumstances with our roster, I don't think you know anything about basketball. As Gentry started getting players back, he made adjustments and the team had stretches of play that would have gotten them into the playoffs if they didn't have such a disastrous start.

The problem is clearly Dell. I understand if a new GM wants to replace Gentry and bring his guy in, but the team will win or lose based on the roster adjustments made this offseason. But I could even make the case that if a new coach has to come in and earn the trust of Davis and Cousins, and tries to play either or both in traditional 4/5 roles... next season could be a disaster. That's why I'd calculate the risk and gamble on Gentry replicating this team's March performance over the course of a full season vs the unknown of a new coach.

[Mythrol]

Gentry can't adapt to his talent? So you're saying he ran the exact same offense once we traded for DC? Get out with that. He can adjust just fine, but mid season changes are hard especially so when you move a lot of guards and get back such a dominant big in return. The stretch in March shows we were figuring out how to play together and alot of credit can go to Gentry for how he handled the transition.

Let DC get healthy, give them a full off season together, and bring in more guard talent. Do that and this team will be 4/5 seed next year. Maybe higher depending what happens in Clipper land.

[UNO Gracias]

I don't think Gentry can adjust, at least not enough where we would find ourselves as a top 5 seed in the West. The guy is a crap coach. He has how many winning season as a head coach? Yeah, that guy is about as useful as another hole in the head.

But we will run it back because #Pelslife

[Buckwheat]

Alvin Gentry is a career loser.
He bombed in Miami
Got run out of town in Detroit
Destroyed the Clippers
Sunk the Suns with a loaded roster
He is a retread Coach. As far as winning with the Warriors lol the King Cake Baby can coach that club in relief.
He is what his record says period.
62-164 with the Pelicans.

[Champ]

Alvin Gentry is a career loser.
He bombed in Miami
Got run out of town in Detroit
Destroyed the Clippers
Sunk the Suns with a loaded roster
He is a retread Coach. As far as winning with the Warriors lol the King Cake Baby can coach that club in relief.
He is what his record says period.
62-164 with the Pelicans.

You are no poet! Pouting about it all summer is going to do us no good. It is what it is.

Gentry $ucks and we are stuck with him!

[NMThreeMVP]

I don't think Gentry can adjust, at least not enough where we would find ourselves as a top 5 seed in the West. The guy is a crap coach. He has how many winning season as a head coach? Yeah, that guy is about as useful as another hole in the head.

But we will run it back because #Pelslife

This is gibberish. But, when Gentry has this team as a top 5 seed in the West I'm sure you'll give him none of the credit. You can look at the crap roster he was given to start the season, actual adjustments he made as he got Jrue and Tyreke back, adjustments he made after the trade once they got a chance to practice... and yet you not seeing it is supposed to be an indictment of Gentry when it might just be an indictment of how much you're capable of seeing when you watch basketball! The final record is an important thing, but it's the lazy man's way of assessing a coach. You all rave about Utah's GM, and after 2 losing seasons he gave Snyder a 5 year extension. If you all were managing that team, Snyder might have been fired for not having any winning seasons.

[Mythrol]

Dantoni sucked too and was a retread coach too and got ran out of LA until this year. This season was about getting building blocks and figuring out how to play together. We've got the two big pieces and we've got the summer to work on the system even more. We already know Erman is going to have the defense on point for next year. Spend the summer making sure our offense works right and we will be a good team.

[NMThreeMVP]

Dantoni sucked too and was a retread coach too and got ran out of LA until this year. This season was about getting building blocks and figuring out how to play together. We've got the two big pieces and we've got the summer to work on the system even more. We already know Erman is going to have the defense on point for next year. Spend the summer making sure our offense works right and we will be a good team.

I cosign this.

The team will win or lose next year based on what kind of work Cousins puts in this summer to get in great shape, everyone being healthy through training camp (and avoiding anything major in-season), and what this team does with its starting backcourt.