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Thread: Tidbits on Pelicans

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    I see no reason for you to lie so I thank you for sharing this.

    It seems most of the ideas for how to make this off season work revolves around a S&T of Jrue to NY.

    Maybe Holiday feels obligated to push for a S&T to help out a team that stuck by him. I'm still highly skeptical of a S&T happening though.
    It doesn't have to be New York. It could be any number of teams that want Jrue Holiday, but would also like to (or need to) unload a contract in the process. Jrue is incentivized to do this because he can make more money this way.

    The sign and trade doesn't happen often, but it happens when things line up the way they've lined up for the Pels and Jrue this summer, so I'd consider it likely if Jrue does leave that it's via S/T.

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    It doesn't have to be New York. It could be any number of teams that want Jrue Holiday, but would also like to (or need to) unload a contract in the process. Jrue is incentivized to do this because he can make more money this way.

    The sign and trade doesn't happen often, but it happens when things line up the way they've lined up for the Pels and Jrue this summer, so I'd consider it likely if Jrue does leave that it's via S/T.
    I am aware that it doesn't have to be NY. My reference to NY was in regards to if the rumor that Justin hates it there that probably takes away what most are saying is one of the most likely S&T places.

    Jrue might have incentive to do it but other teams absolutely do not. Is Jrue honestly in a position where he can demand "No I don't want $130m, I want $170." and would he be willing to stick to that simply as a favor to the the Pelicans? I don't see either as likely.

  3. #28
    ANY GM in the NBA signs Jrue Holiday to a 80-100 million dollar deal needs to be Fired on the Spot

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    I am aware that it doesn't have to be NY. My reference to NY was in regards to if the rumor that Justin hates it there that probably takes away what most are saying is one of the most likely S&T places.

    Jrue might have incentive to do it but other teams absolutely do not. Is Jrue honestly in a position where he can demand "No I don't want $130m, I want $170." and would he be willing to stick to that simply as a favor to the the Pelicans? I don't see either as likely.
    Jrue might not be in a position to demand $170m, but he is in a position to demand anything that's equal to or more than what the Pelicans offer him. There's no risk to him in seeing if he can get the terms of the Pelicans offer playing for a team he prefers to play for. Maybe he wants the 5th year, and a team is willing to give it to him. They'd need to do a sign and trade. Maybe in order to fit into the other team's cap and still equal out to the total money he wants, the other team needs to be able to offer the average increases that only the Pelicans can offer.

    It doesn't have to be a jump from $130m to the full max in order to make it worth agreeing to a sign and trade. The Pelicans and Jrue have advantages in how they can structure a contract and if Jrue doesn't want to play for the Pelicans that's all you need to set up the foundation of the sign and trade.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckwheat View Post
    ANY GM in the NBA signs Jrue Holiday to a 80-100 million dollar deal needs to be Fired on the Spot
    Dell probably will. Other than Dallas I do not see any other options for Jrue. Why pay Holiday when you can draft Monk. NY is in chaos and has serious salary cap limitations.
    MM scenarios are senseless. Why would the Suns, Knicks, or any other team do a sign and trade. A sign and trade is a favor to Holiday not the Pels. .

  6. #31
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    I'd love to somehow S/T Holiday to Spurs for Green and Parker. The Spurs have to start thinking about their PG of the future, and I'm not sure they think it's Patty Mills.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    Jrue might not be in a position to demand $170m, but he is in a position to demand anything that's equal to or more than what the Pelicans offer him. There's no risk to him in seeing if he can get the terms of the Pelicans offer playing for a team he prefers to play for. Maybe he wants the 5th year, and a team is willing to give it to him. They'd need to do a sign and trade. Maybe in order to fit into the other team's cap and still equal out to the total money he wants, the other team needs to be able to offer the average increases that only the Pelicans can offer.

    It doesn't have to be a jump from $130m to the full max in order to make it worth agreeing to a sign and trade. The Pelicans and Jrue have advantages in how they can structure a contract and if Jrue doesn't want to play for the Pelicans that's all you need to set up the foundation of the sign and trade.
    Cool.

  8. #33

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    I've been a big fan of Tucker since he came back to the league. He's older now but probably has one more contract with good play in him. Plus he shot 45.5% on corner 3s last year. That would have put him highest on our entire team (that wasn't a temp contract) last year. His defense is also really good and would make our already solid defense even more threatening.

    The issue is though, how much different is Tucker than Solomon Hill? Tucker is probably the better player now (at least his rebounding and corner 3 is) but he's also a good bit older and is likely to start to decline. You also can't really play both together since they are both true SFs that really switch bigger instead of going smaller. Actually, Hill probably has more defensive versatility since he can switch down to a SG in a pinch but Tucker cannot. Overall, I wouldn't be upset if we got Tucker but there's bigger needs and better fits out there.

    JJ Redick would be a good fit and young enough for one more contract as well. He could fill the Buddy Hield role at starting SG and he knows Gentry's system and can work in it. Ultimately I wonder how much different he would be than Crawford. He has been doing it against NBA starters so I give him credit for that though. I'm not sure we can go after him because I have a feeling the Clippers will throw a lot of money at him to keep their core.

    Korver I wouldn't go after unless he was cheap, just too old to give a big contract to. He is kind of a worse Redick at this point but if we are desperate for shooting it might make sense.

    Really what I'm focusing on in the off season is secondary ball handler who can still create for others. Assuming Jrue is back, and even if he isn't, that's what we need most. My ultimate target has been Bledsoe for awhile now and I will stick with that, assuming we can get a package together to get him.
    1) what's a lot of $$$? They gonna pay CP3 25ish, Blake 28-30ish .that will be 80 million on 3 guys (CP-Blake & Jordan). You can use all the Birds & MLE's that you want- It still not gonna allow LAC to throw a boatload at JJ . 2) in order to keep a 4 man core(4 is too many by the way), you will never have any bench worth a squat.. That's where they are and have been for years. No Bench! 3) If they get knocked out in round 1 or 2, the core as you call them is Ka-BOOM ! So, with that being said, I'll take JJ & Doc ! And with some accounting ingenuity, CP 3 will be fine also.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    I'd love to somehow S/T Holiday to Spurs for Green and Parker. The Spurs have to start thinking about their PG of the future, and I'm not sure they think it's Patty Mills.
    D. Murray is his name.

  11. #36
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    I've been converted.

    Fire Dell. I still think Gentry might be the best fit for this team next year as coach, but I'd be comfortable with a really good GM making that assessment and could live with whatever the new guy decides.

    I like all of these potential/hypothetical offseason moves, but I have no confidence in Dell doing anything close to what he ought to do to improve this team. Thinking back to how Dell muscled Monty out after a playoff appearance is what really flipped me to the other side. If Dell could really stand in judgement of Monty after that season and say he wasn't good enough, how can he assess his own performance and say he's been anything other than a detriment to this team over his tenure?

    As far as the scenario's MM proposes, I guess I'd go with the one I think is the most realistic, which is #3. But if the tidbit about Jrue's brother not liking the Knicks is true (very believable and understandable), the sign and trade might be to another team. Or the Knicks will have to severely overpay both Holiday brothers (not out of the question for that franchise).

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by durun View Post
    D. Murray is his name.
    Could be. But he's a rookie who hasn't done anything. They've nailed late picks before, but I'm hard pressed to anoint Murray as their PG of the future.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
    1) what's a lot of $$$? They gonna pay CP3 25ish, Blake 28-30ish .that will be 80 million on 3 guys (CP-Blake & Jordan). You can use all the Birds & MLE's that you want- It still not gonna allow LAC to throw a boatload at JJ . 2) in order to keep a 4 man core(4 is too many by the way), you will never have any bench worth a squat.. That's where they are and have been for years. No Bench! 3) If they get knocked out in round 1 or 2, the core as you call them is Ka-BOOM ! So, with that being said, I'll take JJ & Doc ! And with some accounting ingenuity, CP 3 will be fine also.
    I mean if Balmer is willing to pay the tax they could throw a max at JJ. I have no idea what they will do though. The Clippers are very hard to get a read on because I don't know what will happen if they get knocked out by Utah. Does Balmer get tired of it all and decide to blow things up? Is he content with Doc?

    How much can they realistically change course at this point? They seem tied to Blake and CP3 for good reason. They have no ability to bring more talent in anyway, so paying to keep JJ might be their only option.

  14. #39
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    If Holiday is at a crawfish boil, how will either of them ever leave Louisiana? Ain't getting that anywhere else...

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    I see no reason for you to lie so I thank you for sharing this.

    It seems most of the ideas for how to make this off season work revolves around a S&T of Jrue to NY.

    Maybe Holiday feels obligated to push for a S&T to help out a team that stuck by him. I'm still highly skeptical of a S&T happening though.
    Jrue won't consider the Knicks, one team maybe the Mavs.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by HalfBreed View Post
    Jrue won't consider the Knicks, one team maybe the Mavs.
    Yea looking at all the teams, the Mavs coud be one of the few teams willing to sign him to a large contract that he would also want to go to. They'd probably have to trade Matthews to do it (would be great to get him back in a sign-and-trade) since they will also be looking to re-sign Noel. Actually, could they even afford to have Dirk at 25mil, Barnes at 22mil, and Holiday and Noel at about 25mil each? Not sure that would be possible for them, even without Matthews salary. Plus, they could rather roll with Seth Curry, Yogi, and Barea, and still have Matthews.

    Actually, going through the list of teams, it's hard to find one that makes sense. Bucks make sense roster-wise, but would Jrue and his family really want to live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin? Other teams either already have a starting PG they're heavily invested in, or plan on drafting one this draft, or it's a team he wouldn't want to sign with (Nets). Seems like the only real possibilities would be Knicks, Bucks, Sixers, Mavs, and Pelicans.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
    1) what's a lot of $$$? They gonna pay CP3 25ish, Blake 28-30ish .that will be 80 million on 3 guys (CP-Blake & Jordan). You can use all the Birds & MLE's that you want- It still not gonna allow LAC to throw a boatload at JJ . 2) in order to keep a 4 man core(4 is too many by the way), you will never have any bench worth a squat.. That's where they are and have been for years. No Bench! 3) If they get knocked out in round 1 or 2, the core as you call them is Ka-BOOM ! So, with that being said, I'll take JJ & Doc ! And with some accounting ingenuity, CP 3 will be fine also.
    CP 3 will seek max. it will be his last contract - his max is 34 millions
    Blake's max is north of 30 millions

    with Reddick it might be interesting - he can get up to 15 millions short-term IMO

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by pawel View Post
    CP 3 will seek max. it will be his last contract - his max is 34 millions
    Blake's max is north of 30 millions

    with Reddick it might be interesting - he can get up to 15 millions short-term IMO
    Paul is NOT getting 34 million. ANYWHERE. LAC is not gonna commit 1/3 of cap for 4 years on a 31 yr old point guard. Hell. if they can only offer Reddick 15ish-WE can afford that plus a couple million. Bring the pen & paper. Redick is going to want more than 15 million. Hes worth more than Jrue. He wont get more than Jrue, but he's worth more than Jrue. He's in the top 3 as far as Stop & Pop in the league.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    I mean if Balmer is willing to pay the tax they could throw a max at JJ. I have no idea what they will do though. The Clippers are very hard to get a read on because I don't know what will happen if they get knocked out by Utah. Does Balmer get tired of it all and decide to blow things up? Is he content with Doc?

    How much can they realistically change course at this point? They seem tied to Blake and CP3 for good reason. They have no ability to bring more talent in anyway, so paying to keep JJ might be their only option.
    What is Redicks max? He would have to blow up the arena & the Luxury if hes going to pay 3 max contracts & Jordan(who is basically a max) .You will have about 13 million to divvy up 11 ways for a bench.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
    What is Redicks max? He would have to blow up the arena & the Luxury if hes going to pay 3 max contracts & Jordan(who is basically a max) .You will have about 13 million to divvy up 11 ways for a bench.
    Ballmer is one of the riches dudes on the planet. He wipes his butt with the luxury tax.

    CP3 will get the max. Blake will get max. And he will pay Redick.

    The luxury tax would be less than half of 1% of his net worth.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    Ballmer is one of the riches dudes on the planet. He wipes his butt with the luxury tax.

    CP3 will get the max. Blake will get max. And he will pay Redick.

    The luxury tax would be less than half of 1% of his net worth.
    Balmer didnt get rich by THROWING $$$$ away.. So, he's gonna MAX out 4 players,that have proven over & over & over as they get older & older & older that they cant win? That's ODD. 4 is not a core! 3 is. 4=Status Quo.

  22. #47
    Actually, guys like Balmer do get rich by throwing some money away. It's a risk/reward scenario where sometimes things work out, and other times they don't. He doesn't give a ******** about 20 to 30 extra mil being spent. He wants to win, and if he thinks that maxing those guys is worth the risk for the reward of a championship, then he will gladly do it.

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by luigi modelo View Post
    Actually, guys like Balmer do get rich by throwing some money away. It's a risk/reward scenario where sometimes things work out, and other times they don't. He doesn't give a ******** about 20 to 30 extra mil being spent. He wants to win, and if he thinks that maxing those guys is worth the risk for the reward of a championship, then he will gladly do it.
    Thanks for making my point. Definition of Insanity. Well, this would be it, with $$$ & an expiration date put on it. What exactly does LAC improve by maxing 4 players that have proven they cant win? It keeps the Status Quo with NO BENCH, instead of a small bench. So, how is the risk/reward scenario a winner in this case?

  24. #49
    Sorry brah, I didn't make your point. Injuries crushed the Clippers this year, so if they believe that they can win with that core, then he will continue with it.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
    Paul is NOT getting 34 million. ANYWHERE. LAC is not gonna commit 1/3 of cap for 4 years on a 31 yr old point guard. Hell. if they can only offer Reddick 15ish-WE can afford that plus a couple million. Bring the pen & paper. Redick is going to want more than 15 million. Hes worth more than Jrue. He wont get more than Jrue, but he's worth more than Jrue. He's in the top 3 as far as Stop & Pop in the league.
    You will be surprised how much 30+ old guys will earn this summer.
    CP3 included.
    Heck. You will be surprised how much Hardaway will get...

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