Carmelo Anthony available?

[Mythrol]

Is it a MUST that they they have 3 year guaranteed contracts? Don't think so.

You're insane if you think we are going to not try to fill out a roster around AD and Cousins. We are not going to do only 1 and 2 year contracts with bottom tier players, and what 6,7,8 man takes a 1 or 2 year deal?

If you're idea is trade for Melo, sign a bunch of 1 or 2 year deals for bottom tier players, hope that Boogie resigns to that team, and do it all for the hope that in 3 years Melo will come off the books and we can POSSIBLY sign John Wall - that sounds like planning to fail.

[NMThreeMVP]

You're insane if you think we are going to not try to fill out a roster around AD and Cousins. We are not going to do only 1 and 2 year contracts with bottom tier players, and what 6,7,8 man takes a 1 or 2 year deal?

If you're idea is trade for Melo, sign a bunch of 1 or 2 year deals for bottom tier players, hope that Boogie resigns to that team, and do it all for the hope that in 3 years Melo will come off the books and we can POSSIBLY sign John Wall - that sounds like planning to fail.

You're the one that has argued a S/T is improbable. You're the one who has argued we have to resign Jrue because it's the only move we can make.

All of done is respond to the OPs "Melo for Jrue" premise, and suggest how that unlikely scenario could play out.

If we resign Jrue, as you've insisted we have to, we're similarly capped out and left to sign MLE guys. MLE guys often take shorter deals in exchange for the opportunity to up their value on a good team and get back into free agency, or because they're at the end of their career.

If Melo's contract is a detriment to building this team, and Jrue's contract has the potential to be worse, I don't see how we're any worse off taking back Melo if we're losing Jrue than we would be if we did what you've suggested we have to do and resigned Jrue.

[Mythrol]

You're the one that has argued a S/T is improbable. You're the one who has argued we have to resign Jrue because it's the only move we can make.

All of done is respond to the OPs "Melo for Jrue" premise, and suggest how that unlikely scenario could play out.

If we resign Jrue, as you've insisted we have to, we're similarly capped out and left to sign MLE guys. MLE guys often take shorter deals in exchange for the opportunity to up their value on a good team and get back into free agency, or because they're at the end of their career.

If Melo's contract is a detriment to building this team, and Jrue's contract has the potential to be worse, I don't see how we're any worse off taking back Melo if we're losing Jrue than we would be if we did what you've suggested we have to do and resigned Jrue.

None of what you typed addresses the conversation we are having. YOU are the person that said trading for Melo would somehow magically create "flexibility". When I challenged how this is the case you answered back suggesting we only sign players to 1 and 2 year deals not only this summer but also next summer as well.

No GM would ever employ such a method in our situation.

[NMThreeMVP]

None of what you typed addresses the conversation we are having. YOU are the person that said trading for Melo would somehow magically create "flexibility". When I challenged how this is the case you answered back suggesting we only sign players to 1 and 2 year deals not only this summer but also next summer as well.

No GM would ever employ such a method in our situation.

Creates flexibility COMPARED TO signing Jrue, because Carmelo's contract is shorter. How can you argue this?!?

You're arguing that it doesn't matter, because we still won't have room to go after a max guy at that point. I disagree. You could sign a Joe Johnson or Jared Dudley type to a 2 year deal with an option. You could trade for a player that has 2 years remaining on their contract. Even if you sign a free agent to 3 year deal, you still have flexibility because you'll be able to move that player so long as it's not an Asik 2.0 situation.

Again, my only point is I'd rather have Carmelo for 2 yrs, than Jrue for 5 at similar annual money. One of the reasons why is because we'd have flexibility in 2019, as opposed to being stuck with potentially no way of pivoting before our big make or break year with AD.

This is inarguable.

Thank you.

[da ThRONe]

Here are the numbers. Good news is last year is early termination. 1 year for $26 million still to much. Does not want to be here anyway.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-...-anthony-2283/

He also has a 15% trade kicker so his salary would be more than that. However I see merit in a S&T if Anthony would come here(which I doubt he would). It beats letting Holiday walk for nothing if Jrue really has no plans on returning.

[Mythrol]

Even if you sign a free agent to 3 year deal

This is a change to your original idea. Good. I'm glad you realized that suggesting we only sign 1 and 2 year deals is not a realistic path to take.


Now. As far as Jrue vs Melo goes, it's not just as simple as 2 years vs 5 years. Having Melo over Jrue does not magically create flexibility. And now you acknowledge that we will be signing players that will hit our cap between now and the time Melo would come off the books. Combine two years of signings, plus Cousins new deal, plus having to resign some of our bench players, plus AD's cap hit and the "flexibility" we will have once Melo is off the books is limited. We will still be an over the cap team then, except we won't have a SF (unless we give Melo a monster contract because we can't replace him in free agency). At best what your suggestion does is kick the can down the road for two more years when we will then have even less options because we will have less room to work with than now.

At this point I don't care what Jrue Holiday does, I just want it to be over so we can be done with all the stupid hypotheticals and actually know what we have to work with going forward - player and cap wise.

[NMThreeMVP]

This is a change to your original idea. Good. I'm glad you realized that suggesting we only sign 1 and 2 year deals is not a realistic path to take.


Now. As far as Jrue vs Melo goes, it's not just as simple as 2 years vs 5 years. Having Melo over Jrue does not magically create flexibility. And now you acknowledge that we will be signing players that will hit our cap between now and the time Melo would come off the books. Combine two years of signings, plus Cousins new deal, plus having to resign some of our bench players, plus AD's cap hit and the "flexibility" we will have once Melo is off the books is limited. We will still be an over the cap team then, except we won't have a SF (unless we give Melo a monster contract because we can't replace him in free agency). At best what your suggestion does is kick the can down the road for two more years when we will then have even less options because we will have less room to work with than now.

At this point I don't care what Jrue Holiday does, I just want it to be over so we can be done with all the stupid hypotheticals and actually know what we have to work with going forward - player and cap wise.

I think you're being inflexible in your argument! It's fine to not want Carmelo because you think he's a bum. That's fine. I disagree, but that's fine. The flexibility compared to signing Jrue is simple math though, so I need you to agree with me here and not be stubborn. If we sign Jrue to a 5 year deal, he will have 3 years remaining at a very high dollar point, at the same time that Carmelo would no longer be on our books. Clearing $30m or have $30m tied up in Jrue. That's the comparison, and because of MATH, we'd be more flexible in 2019 with the remainder of Carmelo vs a long term deal for Jrue.

Does that alone get us to the ultimate flexibility of being able to offer a max to a 3rd player? Of course not. But Dell would have more flexibility to get there, and can certainly plan the trades/contracts he pursues to help get him there. All he has to do is not give guarantees for 2020/21 season that might make a guy harder to move. Your assertion that this approach necessarily weakens the roster over the next two years just isn't true. Flexibility is always a strength.

[Mythrol]

I think you're being inflexible in your argument! It's fine to not want Carmelo because you think he's a bum. That's fine. I disagree, but that's fine. The flexibility compared to signing Jrue is simple math though, so I need you to agree with me here and not be stubborn. If we sign Jrue to a 5 year deal, he will have 3 years remaining at a very high dollar point, at the same time that Carmelo would no longer be on our books. Clearing $30m or have $30m tied up in Jrue. That's the comparison, and because of MATH, we'd be more flexible in 2019 with the remainder of Carmelo vs a long term deal for Jrue.

Does that alone get us to the ultimate flexibility of being able to offer a max to a 3rd player? Of course not. But Dell would have more flexibility to get there, and can certainly plan the trades/contracts he pursues to help get him there. All he has to do is not give guarantees for 2020/21 season that might make a guy harder to move. Your assertion that this approach necessarily weakens the roster over the next two years just isn't true. Flexibility is always a strength.

I disagree but it is not worth the time to continue a discussion over something that won't happen anyway.

[NMThreeMVP]

Your lack of understanding how the cap works makes continuing this conversation pointless. Nor is it worth the time to continue a discussion over something that won't happen anyway.

You, my friend, have a lack of understanding of how math works! $27m (what we could owe Jrue) is more than $0 (what we'd owe Carmelo) in 2019.

Your problem is that you think you know more than what you really know. I know how the cap works. I also know the NBAPA projects the cap will go up, which is something you haven't mentioned in your very enlightening views of what our cap limitations will be two years from now. You just refuse to admit you're wrong! Not having Jrue on the roster with a max contract in 2019 means we have more flexibility in 2019. That's really simple. It's impossible to say whether or not we'd have enough for a max, but we're certainly in a better position to create that space than if we had Jrue. Outside of AD/Boogie/Melo all of our contracts will be relatively small.

Explain to me how in your vast understanding of how the cap works, any of the above becomes untrue.

And I'd bet 90% of your 10,761 post here were about discussing things that didn't happen lol.

[NMThreeMVP]

http://www.tmz.com/2017/04/18/carmel...ked-up-dancer/

This has become a one man decision, not a Melo+Lala decision, and now might be a good time to get out of the New York City tabloids...

If this had a 5% chance of happening, I'd now double it to 10%. If Jrue wants to play with his brother in New York, I'd up it to 60%. Jrue's contract looks like it could start right at where Carmelo's salary would be with the 15% trade kicker. I see this as a win/win for both franchises if Jrue wants to be in New York, and the fact that his brother is there and they need a PG, has to make you think he's at least considering playing for the Knicks. Or maybe they're so dysfunctional and his brother has warned him that he wants NO part of playing for them. Still, money talks.

I think this latest personal drama at least has to make Carmelo waiving his no trade clause a more realistic possibility.

[6warddude]

http://www.tmz.com/2017/04/18/carmel...ked-up-dancer/

This has become a one man decision, not a Melo+Lala decision, and now might be a good time to get out of the New York City tabloids...

If this had a 5% chance of happening, I'd now double it to 10%. If Jrue wants to play with his brother in New York, I'd up it to 60%. Jrue's contract looks like it could start right at where Carmelo's salary would be with the 15% trade kicker. I see this as a win/win for both franchises if Jrue wants to be in New York, and the fact that his brother is there and they need a PG, has to make you think he's at least considering playing for the Knicks. Or maybe they're so dysfunctional and his brother has warned him that he wants NO part of playing for them. Still, money talks.

I think this latest personal drama at least has to make Carmelo waiving his no trade clause a more realistic possibility.

i think melo is going to the cavs or clippers.....i think melo is about to ring chase with these last couple of years left on this contract....

[NMThreeMVP]

i think melo is going to the cavs or clippers.....i think melo is about to ring chase with these last couple of years left on this contract....

I don't see how he'd be able to get to either destination. Cavs won't trade Love for him. Clippers won't trade CP3, Blake or DeAndre for him. I think he'll go somewhere he has a chance to compete for a ring, and compete for a ring means top 4 seed IMO. He won't necessarily ring chase until his next contract.

This could be a two step process for him. 1st step is to get out of New York. Second step is to get moved again at deadline to a destination he'd prefer if something happens and a preferred destination wants and has the ability to trade for him.

But I think playing alongside two young guys he's won gold with on Team USA might be appealing to him.

[Mythrol]

You, my friend, have a lack of understanding of how math works! $27m (what we could owe Jrue) is more than $0 (what we'd owe Carmelo) in 2019.

Your problem is that you think you know more than what you really know. I know how the cap works. I also know the NBAPA projects the cap will go up, which is something you haven't mentioned in your very enlightening views of what our cap limitations will be two years from now. You just refuse to admit you're wrong! Not having Jrue on the roster with a max contract in 2019 means we have more flexibility in 2019. That's really simple. It's impossible to say whether or not we'd have enough for a max, but we're certainly in a better position to create that space than if we had Jrue. Outside of AD/Boogie/Melo all of our contracts will be relatively small.

Explain to me how in your vast understanding of how the cap works, any of the above becomes untrue.

And I'd bet 90% of your 10,761 post here were about discussing things that didn't happen lol.

Again, I tire of going round and round on this subject. We will not agree on this and it's pointless to continue.

[Champ]

Paul George or Melo? Shoot!

[Mr. West]

"Ad hominem welcome" should be the tagline for this site

[NMThreeMVP]

Again, I tire of going round and round on this subject. We will not agree on this and it's pointless to continue.

27+30+30+13+9 =109
27+30+13+9=79

109 > 79

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/salary_cap

107-109 =(-2)
107-79 = 28

28 >-2

Math doesn't get to be subject to alternative facts!

[Mythrol]

27+30+30+13+9 =109
27+30+13+9=79

109 > 79

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/salary_cap

107-109 =(-2)
107-79 = 28

28 >-2

Math doesn't get to be subject to alternative facts!

None of that takes into account cap holds from roster spots, other contracts from signing new players and resigning Cunningham / Frazier / Diallo / Crawford / possibly others, trading for other players, draft picks, etc.

My point is, We will be an over the cap team that summer whether Jrue is on the team or Melo.

[kinglio21093]

I'm not touching Carmelo with a 10 foot pole.

I deal with Knick fans every day. They can't stand the guy.

[NMThreeMVP]

None of that takes into account cap holds from roster spots, other contracts from signing new players and resigning Cunningham / Frazier / Diallo / Crawford / possibly others, trading for other players, draft picks, etc.

My point is, We will be an over the cap team that summer whether Jrue is on the team or Melo.

You are right that we could be an over the cap team that summer, especially if we don't give up Carmelo's cap hold. But we could relinquish Carmelo's cap hold fairly easy and...voila!

If we resign Jrue we will ABSOLUTELY be an over the cap team with no flexibility.

Whether Carmelo or Jrue is a better fit next to Boogie and AD is something you can argue, but the cap flexibility in 2019 is the wrong point to stubbornly argue! It's just math.

[NMThreeMVP]

I'm not touching Carmelo with a 10 foot pole.

I deal with Knick fans every day. They can't stand the guy.

Knicks fans are usually my go to for player evaluation.

[kinglio21093]

Knicks fans are usually my go to for player evaluation.

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.

But I've been down on Melo for a while. He's a me-first player and pouts when things don't go his way. I don't want a guy like that. I'd rather Paul George in a heartbeat if we're talking elite swingmen.

[Champ]

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.

But I've been down on Melo for a while. He's a me-first player and pouts when things don't go his way. I don't want a guy like that. I'd rather Paul George in a heartbeat if we're talking elite swingmen.

Careful there. I got chewed out earlier today for saying that.

[Mythrol]

You are right that we could be an over the cap team that summer, especially if we don't give up Carmelo's cap hold. But we could relinquish Carmelo's cap hold fairly easy and...voila!

If we resign Jrue we will ABSOLUTELY be an over the cap team with no flexibility.

Whether Carmelo or Jrue is a better fit next to Boogie and AD is something you can argue, but the cap flexibility in 2019 is the wrong point to stubbornly argue! It's just math.

Again, I'm saying even without Melo's cap hold we would be an over the cap team in 2 years.

Assuming Cousins resigns, The only way we wouldn't be is if we did as you originally suggested and only sign 1 or 2 year contracts and even you backed away from that argument because you realized how foolish a path it was.

[Champ]

Knicks lost again

Watch the #NBADraft tiebreaker between the @Timberwolves & @NYKnicks. pic.twitter.com/UDeMQyxLTr

— NBA Draft (@NBADraft) April 18, 2017

[NMThreeMVP]

Again, I'm saying even without Melo's cap hold we would be an over the cap team in 2 years.

Assuming Cousins resigns, The only way we wouldn't be is if we did as you originally suggested and only sign 1 or 2 year contracts and even you backed away from that argument because you realized how foolish a path it was.

I'll try this one more time, because I'm a teacher at heart.

The average NBA salary in 2019 will be $10m. Hill and Moore will be making approximately the league average. The MLE this year is $8.4m. Less than what the league average will be in 2019. We could very easily add talent around a big 3 of Carmelo/AD/Boogie through trades for players that have 2 years remaining (i.e. Westley Matthews, Rubio, Bledsoe, DeMarre Carroll, Wilson Chandler, Jeremy Lin, etc) or by using MLE to sign a guy that will be making just about league average in 2019, and therefore very movable (like Hill and Moore).

But if we sign Jrue to a five year contract and have 3 max contracts on our books, we absolutely don't have any flexibility no matter what we do.

HOWEVER... if we only have 2 max contracts we could easily have the flexibility to move a minor contract and have max cap space.

Take a walk down hypothetical lane with me...

Trade for Knight.
Use the MLE to sign Thabo Sefalosha to a 2 year deal, with a 3rd year team option. You pay a little more per year, for one less year guaranteed.

Both of those guys would give the Pelicans really solid compliments to a potent big 3 of AD/Boogie/Melo. And neither of those guys has to be on your cap in 2019.