It was always obvious to some of us that Asik was terrible at basketball.Originally Posted by luckyman
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Yes! Pay him the MAX!
No! Spend the money elsewhere!
Don't know/Don't Care!
It was always obvious to some of us that Asik was terrible at basketball.
Interesting use of the word "indefensible": http://www.pelicansreport.com/showth...hlight=Re-sign
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Hindight is fun, let's continue!
Last edited by PelsFan2313; 04-07-2017 at 04:35 PM.
"I'm not going to allow my putative owner to answer that question, this is an NBA related press conference. Paul Tagliabue and Roger Goodell have collectively sung their praises of Tom and if uh ESPN has a problem with that tell Mr. Skipper to call me at my office."
i just love when someone goes back in the day and pull the threads up lol.....now posters are about to disappear lol from this convo lol....
Hahaha. Well done!!
Did you mean to say "cherry picking quotes is fun, lets continue"? Lol, those were the best you could come up with to try to make me look stupid? One post where I express concerns about how Asik fit with the team, and one other post where I tried to be optimistic in saying the Asik signing "is starting to make a little more sense now" (thus confirming that the deal didn't make sense to me when it was announced, which is just as I claimed).
I mean its cute that you searched for my post history, its just a shame that you weren't able to prove your point at all.
Last edited by hornetsrebirth; 04-07-2017 at 06:53 PM.
We are almost forced to re-sign him as I'm not sure we could find a better alternative. We have to go after a decent floor general though- I cannot see him running this team. He is a combo guard and thrives as a scoring option that can make plays. He is way too gdaaam slow with his decision making and doesn't penetrate nearly as much as he should.
You know who feels somewhat vindicated reading that thread????
This guy lol.
Though I definitely underestimated how detrimental that contract would become. I at least thought we would get 14-15 Asik going forward.
The fact that it feels forced to you should be the first indication that something is wrong.
The guy I mentioned a couple months ago is still looking to finally come to the states:
http://www.pelicansreport.com/showth...Milos-Teodosic
Considered one of the best pure passers in the world, has become a 41% three point shooter and is noted for his skills at facilitating with big men.
Like I said then, I'm not sold on him but he is an intriguing option that should come in well under value for what he is likely to produce once in the NBA.
Agreed. We screwed ourselves with some of the contracts we have on the books, so our options are limited atm. Asik is on the periphery hogging cap space. The best thing I can say about Solomon Hill is that he is a player you want in the post season with his defense. He also seems to pick it up late in the year. I don't think we are going to see an upgrade on the wing, but I could see us adding another guard to pair with Jrue. I think we are also at the point where we could get a savvy vet to fill a role on the cheap. It all depends on whether we make moves as opposed to signings. I think we will overpay to keep him here.
If he panned out, he would be eggzactly what we need. Going to keep an eye on him
I think it's a huge mistake, but ultimately what happens in the end.
#Fakenews...
But seriously, I'm a pragmatist. The fact that you went back through the thread and chose those post instead of these... says more about you than it does about me.
Nice work. What can I say, I'm a pragmatic guy. But I mean, that is sort of cherry picking.
...I mean, if you want to cherry pick a handful of post within moments of finding out what the deal does without any of the other post for perspective, go for it. Glad you have the time.
Do we make the playoffs next season with jrue?...yes..
Do we make the playoffs next season without jrue?..yes...
would the team be in position after next season to improve the roster and be better with jrue?...i say no...
would the team be in position after next season to improve the roster and be better without jrue?..i say yes...
is jrue a impact guard or wing like the last 5 or more title teams have had that can dominate games and win?....hell no....
if jrue dont want 18-20mil then let him walk....AD and boogie can draw talent to the team after next season to improve the roster and make a deeper playoff run....
If the definition of cherry picking is extracting statements that directly contradict a erroneous statement you continue to make over and over again (that being, you found the Asik signing indefensible from the moment it occured), I suppose I did cherry pick. My bad.
Nothing you quoted contradicted the point I cleary made from the quotes that were extracted. Props for including those first three quotations in your response btw...you know, the quotations that were posted before the Asik deal broke. That definitely made sense to do considering we're discussing your thoughts on the signing itself and not your fondness with Dell.
Anyways, the quotes I included were not intended to imply you were super enthusiastic about the deal. I never said you were a fan. In fact, there were several people that expressed reluctance about re-signing him in the thread.
The point I clearly made from using your quotations (which should have been obvious from me higlighting the word "indefensible") was this: They demonstrate that you ultimately found Asik's contract defensible at the time it was made, and not the disaster of the contract/franchise crippling signing you claimed to have perceived from the moment the ink dried.
Please tell me how I have failed to make that point clear or how my "cherry picking" contradicts that clearly established point.
It's time to get off your high horse and join us people down in the world of #reality. Dell made a mistake, yes. Was it the most widely supported deal, no. But you did not realize, nor did most of the deal's critics realize, just how deterimental that contract would ultimately become. You did what most fans of a team do, and tried to see the postives in what was ultimately a glaring negative. That's not a bad thing. It just makes you part of the dumb 90%.
Last edited by PelsFan2313; 04-07-2017 at 10:50 PM.
You aren't alone. Most people underestimated it. That was the entire point of my post. There were a number of posters that were unhappy about the signing (particularly the length). But almost none of them actually anticipated just how deterimental that contract would actually become moving forward. Including *gasp* NM.
To the people who say we won't have to pay the max to keep Jrue, See Ryan Anderson.
Money Talks!
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Let Jrue walk. Sign CP3.
What you posted is cherry picking because it doesn't show the entire thought process on Asik. You chose not to find any quotes from the days leading up to the signing, or even include any of the post in the same thread that were from the very next morning. I'm a rational and pretty pragmatic guy. You chose my most rational and pragmatic post the evening the deal was announced. But it's funny because when I woke up in the morning there were post in the very same thread were I was predicting the deal would be Okafor 2.0...
I'm not a Dell fan, but I think he should get one more year. See pragmatism.
I also think you misunderstood the intentional use of the present tense when I said... "ASIK IS INDEFENSIBLE", in a reply to a dude currently defending Asik.
I understand exactly why Dell signed Asik. Dell had rational reasons to do so. Centers get paid. AD didn't want to play Center. He traded a 1st round pick for him. None of that makes it defensible, but it does make it understandable. Maybe that's too nuanced for you.
But I'll say it again, as I'm sure in all your research you came across me saying it then, DELL SHOULD NOT HAVE RESIGNED ASIK!! That's not hindsight.
Again I don't care about what you think of Dell.
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I legitimately have no idea why you're bringing in a past/present distinction. You realize literally the sentence before "Asik is defensible" you said:
And then the paragraph before that, you went into detail about the context of the signing by discussing where the team and Asik was prior to signing him.Asik was idiotic and the worst move Demps has made as GM.
So I'm either confused, or you're talking out of both ends. One use of the present tense does not negate your overwhelming use and context of the past tense.Asik has never ever ever been a 12/12 guy. He came close (10/11) his first year in Houston running system that created more opportunities for both rebounds and points, but that's it. Other than that he's not close. The Asik contract was never, ever, ever justifiable. Period. He didn't fit the GSW system Gentry was installing, his body had already started to breakdown, and there were cheaper ways to go about getting 6 fouls and 6 rebounds from the center position.
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You can't say that Dell signing Asik was indefensible, and then say Dell had rational reasons to do so. It's inconsistent. If there were rational reasons in making a signing, which you acknowledged just now and in the quotes I cited (going so far as saying you were OK with the deal), then it follows that the signing is defensible. Unless you don't consider reasonableness a defensible motive in making deals.
The entire premise of my argument is harping on the "revisionist history" point luckyman made on page 2. Any other way you choose to depict my message is on you, but it's wrong and a waste of time. Whether you thought Asik was worth re-signing is irrelevant. I don't care about that. What I do care about is you pretending like you knew just how deterimental the contract was going to be (by harping on "Dell should not have resigned Asik" and your past evaluations of him as a player). All of the quotations that I have provided repeatedly suggest otherwise.
I mean look at how you respond to this post on the top of page 2...
Well I'll just have to take your word for it, because at THAT time, a healthy Asik gave you what you wanted next to AD. That includes 12/12 games regularly. The whole point is its wrong to act as if Dell was a pure idiot for doing it back then. It's was no where near as obvious a bad move as it is now. That's life.
And I was defintlitely one of the few that was never on board with calling Asik an "elite" defender. Unlike some well know bloggers around here. I was always aware of the gaping holes in his game. And yet, I was not against that last contract. Especially compared to what Mozgov got in L.A. Nobody can sit there and say they saw this nose dive coming to the point where he doesn't even get minutes.---
I'm sure you'll reply with some more irrelevant points, off-topic points, and some not so subtle, personal shots at my intelligence. That's fine. But I'm honestly tired of beating my head against the wall. If you choose to ignore what's right in front of you, that's a personal problem. But I'm done. I should have just taken the high road like lucky. It's abundantly clear that you are the opposite of "pragmatic."
Last edited by PelsFan2313; 04-08-2017 at 12:08 PM.
I had to reread this today to understand what personal shots I've taken at your intelligence and why you think you should have taken the highroad. Your first comments on this thread came after going back through some archived version of the site to research my comments on this site. I've never taken ANY personal shots at you. Quite frankly, PelsFan2313, you're really upset for some reason about this and when you get upset, you sweat, your makeup starts to run, and your McNamara starts to show...
The great thing is that none of the quotes you sampled do I disagree with. Show me which post of mine isn't true, or in somehow directly contradicts what I said. I blame the black or white, must be left or right, world we live in for making it difficult for people to understand and comprehend anything with even a hint of nuance.
My opinion over the course of 6 hours as the Asik contract was announced vacillated, as I tried to understand why you would give Asik this contract. I don't dispute that. But I was never on board with resigning Asik, always thought Asik was terrible at basketball, posted hundreds of times saying as much before and after the 6 hours you chose to cherry pick. And ended up here...
Again...
But that post, which came after the others, wasn't the one you chose to quote. And it was clear I was in the camp of the former, not the latter. That's why what you've thrown on your mask to do here is cherry picking and taking quotes out of context.
Typical unsophisticated approach to an argument.
Last edited by NMThreeMVP; 04-08-2017 at 11:58 AM.
I dont think expect this team to do the smart thing and let him walk
SIGN A SF
It's not an enviable position. I think we will have an easier time finding a significant upgrade at PG on the cheap than we will on the wing, so maybe we can make this work. It all depends on where Gentry and co. envision Jrue playing once he comes back (if we re-sign him). We also need to take into account that Qpon is returning to the table next season. He should hopefully have his training camp, and if he comes back even close to the player he was, that will be a significant boost to our bench. Lots of variables factor into this, so it will be impossible to predict things atm.
Bring in CP3 or resign Jrue and pickup Reddick.
We have to get a star guard. Jrue is very good but he's not an aggressive playmaker. He makes too many critical mistakes yet he's too conservative as well. We need aggression.
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The cap is going to be $100 million, which is lower than expected. The "let Jrue walk" argument is getting weaker by the day. Yes he's going to be overpaid, but it's going to happen and it's what we should do. It's clearly the best of a few bad options.
If Jrue Holiday gets resigned it will be the Dagger in the Heart for this franchise.
If Alvin Gentry returns this franchise is on the TANK.
No way will AD or DC want to stay in this Dumster of a Team.
No Ball Club can win with Career Losers running the Ship.
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