Jets vs SharksOriginally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN
 |
| . |
|
Jets vs Sharks
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
Damn that Kumar posts are so overrated.
Ok let us see if M.M. comes back.
So is this board ever going to get thumbs ups or something? Because there are a lot of posts I want to thumbs up in this thread right now, LOL. This is quickly becoming a reunion thread or something!
Here you go,
Yes man, please post more. I really appreciate guys like you passion for the game. Would love to pick your brain more to see more insights of the state of franchise.
CAW CAW!!!
-Founder and valuable member of the Caw Caw Boyz-
Lol
Sorely needed
Demps didn't get the right players for gentry's system. Asik and Ajinca don't fit the system. Solomon Hill does not fit the system. I don't think jrue fits and I think we need to get a new pg this offseason. Lonzo Ball would be perfect for gentry.
Picking up Dmo was a very good move. He will likely fit very well. Buddy fits fine. AD is great but he needs to improve passing to improve the system.
Unfortunately, I think we need to get a starting SF, C, and a new pg. all players on the court must be good passers, shooters, and ball handlers.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
What about getting Gordon Hayward?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I gave you the context - you're ignoring it and arguing a straw man. You argued that DC is having among his worst year efficiency wise - which is untrue. TS% is perfectly suited to measure a player against his own self on a year to year basis. No one is arguing that he is even a league average efficient threat. No, but when compared to himself, he has been slightly above par for his career average. TS% isn't a predictive stat. It isn't going to tell you how a player will fare if you suddenly ask them play differently. Tyson Chandler isn't going to have the same efficiency if he takes the shots Curry takes. But history (by which I mean statistical analysis) has shown that generally an increased usage leads to a decrease in efficiency. This isn't rocket science.
Therefore it's not unreasonable to suggest increasing Dante's usage is likely to decrease his already below league average efficiency. You don't even have to look far - throughout Dante's career, an increase in usage has generally corresponded with a decrease in efficiency. Regardless, his usage over the last 3 years has been pretty identical (10.9, 11.2, 11.0), as have his minutes (25, 24.6, 25), his touches per game (28, 27.2, 29.2). In fact he's been used almost exactly the same over the last two years down to how many dribbles he takes and how long he holds the ball.
The only real difference between the last two years vs the one with Monty is that he has been more efficient. It's the same deal with his passing.
He's been virtually the same player all 3 years he has played with AD. He's getting the same touches, passing the same amount, dribbling the same amount. AD's role hasn't changed who he is. Dante is Dante with remarkable consistency, aside from the fact some years more shots go in that others, or you happen to get a few more assists/ rebounds. He has been more efficient than he was playing with this "optimized AD" in 2014-15 despite almost everything being the same, save shot selection. Gentry just turned those long twos into threes. The 3 years span from Minny to Monty, 55.7% of his shots were from the long two zone - 16ft to the 3pt line. Now in 2017, 52% of his shots are from three. Guess what's more efficient?
This is totally false. He is in line with his entire career. Only his year in Memphis was an aberration, which I mentioned above was likely an outlier of a year.Almost half as many attempts at the rim as his better years.
Why is FTr important? Because getting to the line gets you points and increases efficiency and gives you a better offense. What measures efficiency? Hmm. Regardless, Dante saw one of his highest FTr last year with Gentry. Sometimes you get called for fouls, sometimes you don't. There is no added bonus of getting the other team in foul trouble because he averages less than 1 shooting foul drawn per game over his entire career. It's a rather unimportant and weak aspect of his game you are choosing to focus on.FTr at a career low (his TS% has virtually nothing to do with this, FTr suggests style of play not simple outcomes).
Of course his TS% is abysmal - it has been his entire career. Which makes it all the more ridiculous to suggest we increase his role outside of this. And no, his TS% is actually higher than it ever was in Minny ( two of his worst years) and last year he almost matched Memphis. This whole misconception is happening because you don't properly understand the stat or how to apply it. No one is saying he is a better offensive player than Zach Randolph. And that's not what he stat conveys either. It does say that you are off base in saying Dante's efficiency has taken a turn for the worse due to AD's increasing role and Gentry's system.ALL HE DOES IS SIT ON THE PERIMETER AND CHUCK. This does not a good offense make, having mediocre 3 point shooter ONLY shoot 3 pointers. So yes, his 3 point shooting is INFLATING his TS% and is not helping the offense. And the rest of the offensive picture with him is outright ABYSMAL. His TS% is not even close to good, and its less than his best years in Memphis and Minny when he didn't shoot 3's. Cmon, this is basic basketball strategy stuff. You cannot marry yourself to a single stat like this, it makes you come off as extremely detached from the actual game being played. Unless you actually believe Dante, who is by the way the 346th ranked player in the league in TS%, is a better offensive player than Zach Randolph.
And I don't know how many times I have to spell it out for you, but the Pelicans play better offensively while he is on the floor than when he is off.
When you were propping up Asik, I told you that his on/off was good because 1) Sample 2) His role was optimized (A good coaching move). He was only put in situations where he would succeed. As the season progress, there became less and less situations where Asik would succeed (he sits at a -4.0 net rating currently), and more situations where Dante succeeds. Dante has the highest on court net rating on the team, and it's credit to Gentry that he is using Dante in the most beneficial way for the team.His on/off splits have just a LITTLE bit to do with the fact that he plays the majority of his minutes with AD, no? I do find it hilarious that you trotted out ON/OFF when you summarily dismissed it outright as too noisy of a stat when I was using it to prop up Asik earlier this year. Gotta stick to your story, Kumar! Lolz. In any case the team’s NET RTG with Dante in 14-15 was +0.8, just below Eric Gordon’s. When AD and DC shared the floor the OFF RTG was 109 (104 this year). Not compelling to use that year as a gotcha
His on/off absolutely is influenced by AD -which is the entire point of this discussion no? You saying AD's role and Gentry's use of him is disastrous? Yet the Pels play better when Dante is on the floor and a lot of those minutes are shared by AD...
The major difference between our conversation then was you were trying to use Asik's stats in a predictive manner, arguing because his on/off was good, we should play him more. We had a conversation why that was a noisy stat when used predictively. The conversation we are having about Dante is entirely descriptive. Meaning we are using stats to talk about what has already happened. This is a very important distinction.
I'm glad you brought up their offensive ratings in 14-15. I have a question for you, is basketball a 2-2 sport, or are there 3 other teammates on each side as well? Are Ryan Anderson, Eric Gordon, healthy Evans, Quincy Pondexter not better offensive threats than literally any one we have on this roster? That's why we use net ratings, because it isolates the effects of those teammates. If you're -0.6 in a year with better teammates, +6.4 in a year with worse teammates, which year are you helping your team more?
14-15 isn't a gotcha year, it's being brought up because you claimed that is the year when AD was used perfectly or better, and Dante was better that year for it.
There is no blogosphere consensus. Basketball bloggers across the world didn't have a conference and decide which stat is useless which stat isn't.He averaged much higher Win Shares on 31 and 40 win teams (aka us right now) in Minny. So it is definitely a valuable stat when you again, look at with context. And your PER deflection is textbook NBA blogosphere overreaction, I’m so used to it by now. It is absolutely an effective stat when, yet again, used in context. His PER has CRATERED into non-NBA player territory…how convenient that its not useful to your argument. He simply does not contribute much of anything useful to a team’s chances of scoring more than their opponents do. But again, I say that’s more on Gentry than Dante when you look at how he is used.
No, both PER and WS have been tested thoroughly and neither holds any predictive value on a players performance nor a correlation in predicting wins. They are great at glance measures to look for box score productivity if you don't want to sit down and evaluate context. They don't tell you anything about a player's role, fit, or anything about what's happening on the court. So while you're correct that his box score stats are down, you're wrong to attribute it style or role, or AD's role.
Again, this whole conversation has been about how players like Hill and Dante are seeing "horrible down years" and how AD's current role (via Gentry) is the thing that's impacting it. But there is absolutely nothing to support that assertion.
It's been fun looking at Dante's stats in Minny or Memphis - but that's a moving goalpost, and it has done nothing but reaffirm that Dante has been a largely mediocre to bad player his entire career. And increasing his role isn't going to change this team for the better, and isn't going to make this offense a better one.
Getting a guy or guys who can score will.
Last edited by Kumar; 01-18-2017 at 01:32 AM.
Appreciate it, Mac. It means a lot.
Kumar = Will Ferrell
Kumar just owned Ogden sumn ferocious. Dang. Please don't respond going in circles with Kumar again Ogden. Take your L and keep it pushin.
More like the Monday Night Wars of professional wrestling in the mid to late 90's.
We are a week and half away from the Royal Rumble and MM has made an Undertaker like appearance.
Last edited by DaFranchise80; 01-18-2017 at 05:26 AM.
Here's the guy we really should have taken. Already knows how to get to the rack and can shoot. Ball-handling miles ahead of Buddy
Sure, go get him
Those were the best years IMHO. Jake the Snake, The Ultimate Warrior, Razor Ramone, IRS, Hulk Hogan, Macho Man, Andre the Giant, Big Boss Man, Virgil, that one ref PeeWee, etc. those were the good ole days.
If you have any WWF VHS tapes they are worth a fortune
I know a guy. Back when we were kids we would always go down to Blockbuster on Vets (where that oschner practice now is) and rent Summer Slam, Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, etc., and we would watch them when one of us were sick. Years later around 2005, right before Katrina we were at the Goodwill in the Robert E Lee shopping center on West End and Robert E Lee, and we found like 16 of those videos, as well as some New Kid on the Block videos, so we bought them with the foresight that one day these things would be valuable. We sold off the NKOTB videos for like $15 a pop (we bought them for $2 a pop), and he still has the WWF videos somewhere at his place (dude owns a VCR just so he can watch those with his kids). One day we will have to get together and sell them on eBay or something.
Stats are misleading. My case is proven, look at the records over the last 2 years. I wanted Monty out of here not because of his system but of his refusal to develop young talent. His system was a lot better the this 3 ring circus we have now.
Stats are misleading, so look at this other stat? A record is a stat.
Anyway, can some one tell me why everyone rags on David Fisher? I've never interacted with him, but I like his writing at The Bird Writes.
Coz he writes whiny tweets a lot
Whiny or factual?
Contributor
Those two things aren't mutually exclusive, mind you.
Also, seems I've really been ignoring this thread. Some real gems going on here.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
