Will not happen. There is too much cap room available to warrant a valuable asset in a S&T. At best, you can hope for a highly protected 2nd rounder to create a TPE.Originally Posted by lsutigers33
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Will not happen. There is too much cap room available to warrant a valuable asset in a S&T. At best, you can hope for a highly protected 2nd rounder to create a TPE.
Wingspan and standing reach is more important than height. You usually don't defend the ball with your face.
When trying to block a shot being 2"-3" shorter then guess what? That wingspan is 2"-3" lower than because of his height lowering everything down. It would be more standing reach which goes off of someone's wingspan. I don't think we are talking about how far his arms go out to stop a passing lane but more of how well he defends a shot for the position. Now everybody is acting like wingspan is all the matters. That is definitely not the case and it's pretty obvious when looking at positions with their average height. Not only is he 2"+ shorter than most SFs he is about 20 lbs less easy. You can't ignore everything else just because he has a long wingspan. Their is a reason they have 1 other SF at 6'5 and very few at even 6'6. The one guy who is 6'5 is built like a mack truck.
I don't mind Barnes at all, he's what you would want in a 3 and D player. He'd play that role pretty well imo
BUT I don't want him for the max, I don't know if I'd want him for 16 mil, GS offered him that much under the old Cap and he still turned it down. For the role that he plays you could pay someone the mid level under the old cap, or something between 10-12 you could get similar production from a player who gives 70-80% of what Barnes does without the upside.
If you want to compare him to the 3s that are available for his price tag, I'd take:
Batum
Parsons (maybe)
Derozan
Other players I'd sign for the max over him
Horford
Drummond
Whiteside
Howard (Maybe)
After that I'd take any other wing player that would cost less than the max. People who are banking on him suddenly blowing up and becoming a star need to see how he's done so far, especially in the playoffs.
He's reasonable off catch and shoot 3s, but as soon as he starts handling the ball, the %s plummet. If you think he's gonna become a star he needs to drastically change that around, otherwise he's just like the wing version of a JJ reddick/ Korver, (at a lower 3 point %)
What if Barnes isn't doing a damn thing with that extra reach? Because the numbers say he isn't.
You are ignoring what he's actually done on the court and focusing solely on his measurements. Bazemore creates more deflections than Barnes. It isn't an opinion, it's a fact.
Bazemore: 2.88 deflections per 36 minutes
Barnes: 1.11 deflections per 36 minutes
Bazemore: 2.3% steal rate
Barnes: 1.0% steal rate
Bazemore: 1.4% block rate
Barnes: 0.4% block rate
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So here's just some general numbers of players based off of what I could find at Draftexpress:
Height w/ shoes - Wingspan - Standing Reach
Batum: 6'7.75" - 7'.75" - 8'8.75"
Barnes: 6'8" - 6'11.25" - 8'5.5"
Bazemore: 6'5" - 6'11.5" - N/A
Crabbe: 6'6.25" - 6'11.25" - 8'7.5"
The average numbers according to draft express for all SF's taken in the 1st round of the draft are: 6'6.35" - 6'11" - 8'8.2" - 215lbs.
This is not true. The length of the neck can cause a guy to appear 2-3" taller but does not necessarily mean a shorter person is 2-3" lower to blocking the ball. This is exactly why they do standing reach measurements.
Again. Unless someone is blocking the ball with their face then their wingspan and standing reach are far more important.
But if you didn't have a face, you couldn't find the ball?... Lol
If you play hands up D, I agree, reach makes up for height.
Just checking in again (like yesterday) to see if yall were STILL arguing about Harrison Barnes...
Ya'll realize no one on either side is going to be convinced, right? You realize your positions are firmly established?
Let me try and be a bit pragmatic. Only way GSW are letting Harrison go, is if they sign Durant. If they sign Durant, and barring injury, our team isn't getting pass that in the West, no matter who we sign unless AD elevates his game to Jordan/Lebron/Dream/Kareem/Larry/Magic levels.
But if GSW sign Durant, and if Harrison wants to play for Gentry again, and if he wants to be a Pelican when there a dozen other options he could choose from, and if he wants to give us a home team discount even though we're not his home team, and if we can't trade for Iguodala (who would be a better fit), and if we can't get Crabbe or Bazemore for 80% of what we'd have to pay Barnes.....
then I'd be thrilled if we signed Harrison. He completely disappeared at times during the playoffs, but he also really popped for short stretches as well. If Gentry feels like he could get 36 consistent minutes of focused effort out of him a night, I trust coach. He's only 24, and very few players have started in as many big games as he has at that age.
Last edited by NMThreeMVP; 06-28-2016 at 10:46 AM.
So how does creating more deflections mean he can play SF? He's guarding SGs for a lot of his minutes while Barnes is guarding SFs/PFs. Sure Bazemore might be the better defender but that still does not mean he is a good fit for $17.5 million at SF. You are ignoring that Bazemore is one of 2 people in the NBA that you want at SF for us and the other guy has 20+ lbs on him. I have never heard of a 6'5 200 lb SF in the last 5 years in the NBA. They barely have any 6'6 SFs in the NBA. Using a reach to make your case is a little ridiculous when you can make that case for tons of players. I guess Rondo would be a great option at SG because of his reach. Explain to me how in your piece you wrote it's ok to pay Bazemore a few million extra if we have to overpay but it will cripple our franchise if we do that same for Barnes? Because Bazemore is a good person? Can Bazemore play SF? Sure he can and he does at times but it is not ideal and definitely not at $17.5 million.
Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 06-28-2016 at 11:01 AM.
Another cheap FA I wouldn't mind signing (to replace Ryno) is Andrew Nicholson.
This is not true. I just posted where the average height of SFs in Draftexpress database is 6'6.35". This is after I even limited it to only counting 1st round draft picks.
Dang even after all the stats say that Bazemore (at a cheaper $) is outperforming Barnes. and cats are still arguing for Barnes (at max even). Funny stuff.
Some FA PFs that I like to replace Ryno are Andrew Nicholson, Darrell Arthur, Trevor Booker, Jon Leur, and Derrick Williams. I would be happy if either one of those guys are our backup PF next year.
Terrence Jones is my pick to replace Anderson. Or Marvin Williams if you can pry him from Charlotte.
I wouldn't be opposed to Jones. He gets a lot of hate but in a backup role he would be fine. My personal choice would be Jordan Hill. I think he fits exactly what we need in a big backup.
But it all comes down to money.
I think Terrence Jones might be the realistic option. I'm ok with it. I rather get a few role players that can help us get to the playoffs then spend the max money next season.
Bazemore not only CAN play small forward, that is the position he does actually play. That you haven't heard of it just demonstrates your ignorance. Bazemore actually played more small forward than Harrison Barnes last year. Shocking, I know.
Yes, I'd pay the guy who rebounds more while creating more steals, blocks, and assists for less money than Harrison Barnes. You want to pay more for the less productive player because the box score reads 6'8" 230. Not because of what happens on the court. That is idiotic.
Oh and quick question.. Can Barnes not improve and be much better than Bazemore in 3 years? What was Bazemore doing at 23-24 years old. Barnes the past 2 years has produced just as much as Bazemore in a much smaller role. Bazemore finally at age 27 has put up a good year. Barnes has way more potential and right now is the better player who will what cost a couple million more $? Plus he's a much better fit for what we need at SF and a small ball PF. Also can grow with our superstar and 1st round pick instead of nearing 30 by the time everyone is clicking at full potential. But hey you can point out some per 36 % #s and a couple of % stats to make your case haha. If Bazemore is such a better option why is he going to get less $ and wasn't considered for team USA when it was really the spot for a reserve of a reserve of a reserve? Barnes is a much better 3 point shooter and superior athlete at 6'8 230 lbs to Bazemore at 6'5 200 lbs. Gives us exactly what we are looking for a versatile SF/PF instead of a versatile SG/SF when we just picked a SG at #6.
http://nyloncalculus.com/2015/06/26/...tion-for-2015/
Lol you would go posting the average height for a SF without shoes. So what does this make Bazemore then? 6'3? Here we go again using stuff to fit your argument hoping people won't bother to do the research. So wrong lol.
Don't even bother arguing with him David. It is like arguing with a 2 year old, he doesn't listen to anything and just repeats himself. He doesn't listen to facts and he just posts what ifs.
Harrison Barnes is taller so he can block more shots!
Well actually, Kent Bazemore blocks three times as many shots.
Harrison Barnes can play power forward!
Well actually Bazemore collects 50% more defensive rebounds.
WELL. WELL. BARNES IS YOUNGER!
That's all you got. Barnes hasn't improved. He actually regressed. Maybe he's just young and capped out? Just not actually good.
HB hasn't improved at all since he got in the league just his 3pt shooting. If he didn't improve when he was with be best team in the NBA what makes you think he will improve now.
Oh and since everyone is so obsessed with Barnes in the playoffs how about you take a look at Bazemore. Had a few good games but needed 20 shots. Had multiplied games each series with 5 points and 3 points. But this only can be argued against Barnes no Bazemore.
Ya but going 5-32 in the final 3 games in the finals is much worse.
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