http://m.wdsu.com/news/to-move-forwa...-back/39647388
Thoughts on this? I'll say, no one from here to BSS has brought any of his ideas up yet.
Curious to hear you guys opinions.
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Very Interesting Fletcher Mackel model for Pels to rebuild.
http://m.wdsu.com/news/to-move-forwa...-back/39647388
Thoughts on this? I'll say, no one from here to BSS has brought any of his ideas up yet.
Curious to hear you guys opinions.
CAW CAW!!!
-Founder and valuable member of the Caw Caw Boyz-
I think many people have that general idea in mind, but this is a well-articulated and specific path. That level of detail makes exact realization unlikely intrinsically, and I think there are other obstacles, but I think it is a commendable recommendation.
__________
"Aime la vérité, mais pardonne à l'erreur." - François-Marie Arouet (Voltaire)
I just don't see this happening, really much of Any of it at all actually. We will draft two guys maybe three if we don't trade a pick away. And pick up one mid level starter in FA. That's the demps M.O.
Lol! Yea.. No thanks!!
Some problems:
1. Owner's age to give this plan chance of realization.
2. Gentrys history of developing talent.
3. Dells hot seat. With this squad we will not qualify for PO next year.
4. AD must agree to take two steps back. He wants to win as much as possible.
Tempting. But with Dell&Alvin impossible.
Yea #4 most important. Don't let the amount of years we have AD fool you. If it takes until the last couple years to be contenders the only thing that would keep him here IMO would be a championship. AD and his group of people would be so p****** at that point and want out. Would be similiar to KD and Westbrook possibly splitting but on a different level taking way too long to satisfy anything much less being in the Western Finals 4 out of 6 years. If this is the route we go then trade AD and get as much out of him as you can. Try to swing a deal for Simmons where we send the Lakers AD while they send a bounty of picks to the Sixers. If we tried to go Simmons possibly allowing us to keep #6 as well or get Russell. I would take Deangelo Russel. Simmons and Russell along with more stuff possibly wouldn't be a bad start IMO. Or just operate with the Lakers and get Ingram, Russell and the 6th pick. Russell, Hield, and Ingram could be a pretty exciting young duo to build around. Don't want to get rid of AD but if we are going young we might as well because that route will likely lose him anyway.Originally Posted by pawel
Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 05-21-2016 at 02:06 AM.
Found this part troublesome. We need both on the floor together for the majority of their minutes. It looked good when we saw it, but we didn't see it enough last season and I can't understand why.When Holiday was healthy he and Davis were pretty amazing together.
Unfortunately, Gentry refused to play the two together very often.
Davis and Holiday spent just 52 percent of the their total minutes last season on the floor at the same time. By comparison, Steph Curry and Draymond Green were together 91 percent of the time for the defending champion Golden State Warriors.
Me too, very much, but I'm hoping with a healthy roster maybe this gets solved.
I like the idea of going young. AD may not want this type of rebuild, but the reality is the chance of us signing a max player is slim, and the "bring in young veterans" plan hasn't worked. Our only other option is to start with a clean slate, and I like Fletch's idea. Pretty far-fetched, but well thought-out.
Who cares what AD thinks about a rebuild at this point? If we are bottom feeders 3years from now then you start caring. If Davis is good enough he'll have us in the playoffs similar to what Garnett did with that Wolves team. The most important thing is long term sustainable success not Davis feeling year one into a 5 year deal.
Injuries were a factor , but when healthy the pieces didn't fit. Players were not willing to commit to roles, or they made bonehead low IQ plays.
How do people keep forgetting this?
This. We are making the mistake that most franchises with a star player does. It's a tricky time, I'll support both sides, but blowing it up fully would also be a risk that can at least benefit our future.
Look at Portland people!!? They did the EXACT thing now they can build for the future and be competitive. It starts with getting players that buy in, a good coach, and a good leader in Lillard.AD is a very good dude in real life, but he has to become a better leader and hold players accountable and tell fools to give me the damn ball when everyone is not playing right and take over. This is what Charles Barkley was talking about with today players.
1) Nobody is trading their #8 1st round pick for Holiday! Pipe Dream! So Sac gonna put 11,000,000 on the Books & pray a)Holiday doesnt get injured & then b)He stays~ IF he remains Healthy! NOPE! or What,> trade a 1st rounder for a RENTAL?
2) Bigger Pipe Dream>We get a Low mid 1st rounder for Evans! Especially Philly! Lots of young talent & Evans certainly will NOT HELP the young talent !
3) If Mackeral thinks Having almost half your team comprised of ROOKIES is gonna EXCITE AD, well thats pretty much STUPID !
So, in Mackerals POV! We keep AD, all of our leftovers & the rest are ROOKIES !
Therefore combining the word INTERESTING with MACKERAL is an oxymoron !
Because its quite simply not true. I've already posted about it numerous times, but misinformed people like you continue to trot out this oversimplified critique of the past 3 years.
THE PIECES DID FIT. The data does not lie, unlike message board posters.
Lineups with AD, Jrue, Tyreke, Ryno, Gordon and Asik together have been shown to be quite effective. They were often better than their opponents on the floor, and when healthy together with a competent wing and backup PG (QPon/Cole) formed the core of a 50 win capable team.
Health is the only thing that has truly held them back.
...
As for Fletcher's draft fanboy fantasy...utter garbage. We are not going to build the core of a championship team in the 2016 NBA Draft. 3 first round picks in this draft, at the expense of all of our guard talent, is an absolute disaster. This would be FIVE steps back, with zero indication it would move us ONE step forward.
Everyone wants to be the Timberwolves without being honest about how they've arrived where they are (a 29 win team btw). It has taken them ELEVEN SEASONS to get here. ELEVEN STRAIGHT LOSING SEASONS. That is a massive cost that nobody wants to acknowledge, but it matters. Basketball cannot survive in New Orleans with that type of losing, and plans like this are advocating just that.
Fletcher is suggesting we trot out a 25-30 win team with a damn superstar carrying the water for a bunch of mid level rookies and mediocre role players. We pull this on AD and Dell should be tried and convicted for cruelty to a superstar and fanbase.
Anyone agreeing with this plan needs a lobotomy. Abysmal.
This is why COACHES try & look to the opposite of the room as where Mackeral is, during Press conferences ! The GUY is a MORON !
1 Superstar, 4 rookies & 8 scrubs ! This is MACKERALS DIVINE PLAN !
I agree with your critique of the plan.
Yes, let's look at Portland. They are everybody's darling this offseason, a beacon in the night to show Dell how he SHOULD be doing things.
Except wait, that narrative is full of holes (predictably).
They lost their star forward, LMA. And went 44-38, and were gifted a 2nd round playoff appearance by CP3 and Blake going down. People hailed this as a great success and a springboard to much bigger things. The details show a much less monumental achievement, and a much murkier future.
- The West was WAY weaker this year. 44-38 does not even make the playoffs last year. They were a solid team, nothing more. We were better in 14-15, especially with our post QPon/Cole lineup.
- They were the 20th ranked defense (RTG) in the league. With Lillard and CJM as your starting backcourt that is unlikely to improve much. It might be the worst defensive backcourt in the league.
- Their bigs are mostly a question mark (though Plumlee is good) and are about to either overpay Meyers Leonard a ton or have him walk for nothing. Lose-lose.
All of this to say they are NOT in a better position than us. Their path to championship quite simply rests on getting a star player to sign there as a FA, or trading CJ (what I would do). If someone makes a run at Crabbe and Harkless they either have to match and tie up big money in a backup to their entrenched backcourt and a fairly average player in Harkless, or lose their young depth for nothing. Tough call.
I'm not saying they are in a bad place. Just that their success and future is being WILDLY overblown. They are solid, but nothing special without some pretty major moves.
All I know is >> I want to steal Allen Crabbe from Portland !
The BIGGEST Problem w/ your analogy is > Portland had ZERO rookies that contributed on that team! The 3 rookies on the team averaged less than 4 minutes per ! SO, to conflate rebuilding with needing 3 or 4 rookies to be immediate contributors is axiomatically APPLE/ORANGE!
Imagine if you applied these same arguments to the Pelicans without fan hope.
-Gifted a playoff series? Injuries to Durant gifted the Pelicans a playoff berth.
-20th in DRtg? Pelicans finished 22nd when they made the playoffs. Here's the history since AD was drafted: 28th, 27th, 22nd, 27th. If 20th one year is a red flag for Portland how is New Orleans in a better position again? Oh right. Fan hope.
-Question marks replacing free agents they haven't lost yet? You're already replacing Gordon, Cole, and Anderson here.
-Lose their young depth? You don't understand how restricted free agency works.
-Not in a better position than us? The franchise that has made the playoffs three straight years and won more series (2) than New Orleans has in franchise history?
Honestly that last part isn't a joke. Since moving to New Orleans in 2002 this franchise has won a grand total of one playoff series. Since drafting Chris Paul in 2005 the Hornets/Pelicans have made the playoffs 4 times and won one solitary playoff series. Portland, since drafting Damian in 2012 have made the playoffs 3 times and won two playoff series.
You honestly believe a team that had an entire starting lineup under 26 win a playoff series is in a worse position than a team that won 30 total games last year? I'm honestly amazed.
Associate Editor for The Bird Writes, the SBNation New Orleans Pelicans site.
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The biggest problem with the Wolves was Khan being a terrible GM.
Being buyers in a draft especially ones that are considered "weak" IMO is the best way for this franchise to get to excellence. Take the year we sold draft picks for Jrue 2013. Think about were we would be if we had a excellent talent evaluator. Adams, Antetokounmpo, McCullom, and Crabbe all came after the 10th pick. Think if we have 3 of these 4 on the team right now what the optimism this fan base would have moving forward.
Adams
Davis
Antetokounmpo
Crabbe
?
We need to stop babying Davis. If he's that superstar he'll have these guys competitive. Using Portland as an example who thought they were anything but a top 7 pick? But Lillard took his play to another level and they made it and one a playoff series.
Imagine if you actually looked into my arguments instead of falling back on tired cliches like fan hope. *cue John Lennon*
- We won 45 games. That would be the 5th seed this year. And that's not taking into account the overall downturn in competition quality. 14-15 West was much better and more competitive (including our own division with Memphis & Houston being MUCH better).
- We were 22nd on the year, but 14th after the All Star break (8th in Offense, 10th in Net). Perspective, David. Portland was 22nd post All Star Def Rtg this year, in case you were hoping for a similar shift for them. No, they actually were worse down the stretch. In a weaker conference.
- Replacing Gordon and Cole is beyond easy. I've addressed this, but 14-15 Cole was replacement level and 15-16 Cole was one of the worst players (maybe THE worst) in the league getting major minutes. Gordon's hot shooting post All Star in 14-15 is tougher, but his overall play was nothing special. Crabbe, Courtney Lee, Hield, Murray, etc could all quite conceivably give you most or more of what EG did.
Ryno is trickier, but as I've advocated on here I would actually like to keep him (at the right price). I realize that may not be possible or realistic, but there are some other options if he leaves. And our lineups in 14-15 with Asik and AD were often better overall than ones with Ryno anyway.
- I understand completely how RFA works. If you actually read my posts sans emotion you would see I clearly said they would lose that depth should they choose not to match an offer sheet. If they do match, they tie up money in backups. That's all I said, and the point stands. Its not a great place for them due to Crabbe being stuck behind Dame and CJ. 8-10 million for a backup is not ideal. Not saying they won't match, just that it doesn't move the needle for them.
- This point is irrelevant to me. Bill Walton has a ring with them too. Cool, who cares? I wouldn't trade places with their roster today, and its as simple as that. You would, neat.
I'm not wrapped so tightly in last season's events like you. I look at this from a broader perspective, and see how last season does not necessarily represent the situation as a whole. I understand why some do, its just impossible for me to be married to a season that was so clearly sunk from preseason due to injuries.
If you like Portland more than us that's fine. Lots of people overrate them, so its pretty normal. AD is a 2 way star, Dame is not. Name one true contender with their star player as bad on defense as Lillard. That list should be super compelling.
A franchise built around AD has an inherently higher ceiling than one with Lillard as its centerpiece. A healthy Jrue is a better overall player than CJ. So in my eyes we have a better 1-2 than them (much better really), and the rest of the roster on both teams is pretty unremarkable and malleable. So I'll take us all day every day.
It's absolutely matter what AD thinks. You don't just ignore the wishes of one of the best players in the NBA. That's about the dumbest thing we could do. If we don't care about the message we send him then move on and go blow it up. No player no matter how good just makes a team a playoff contender. Everyone acts like Lebron puts anyone in the playoffs and that just simply isn't true. If we go this route it's very likely we don't make the playoffs for a couple years if ever. No telling if any of these players are NBA starters. Wouldn't surprise me much though that you think we shouldn't care what AD says.
I love how people can sit there and say these guys were terrible fits with each other and blah blah. Lol how? We made the playoffs last year with those guys still not playing completely together. The few times they were healthy and played together we looked very good. Nobody has once said these combinations were a championship team but just a very solid playoff team and we were. The great thing is you can always make tweaks to improve your team which has always been the plan. Injuries have derailed everything and that's a fact. Without injuries Gordon is likely one of the top young SGs in the league playing next to a young stud PG in Holiday. Not Dells fault he didn't have a fortune teller next to him when signing these guys.
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