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Thread: We need a POINT GUARD!!

  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelifan View Post
    Napier is better than Frazier to be sure. Sure he's not a facilitator, but he's also not a guy who struggles to make NBA rosters. Im also not sure why we didnt get our hands on Garrett Temple. Sac seems uninterested in the players they got back in that deal. I get that there are 29 other teams and they all want rotation guys for nothing, but you're being naive to pretend we didnt miss opportunities. Rose also a guy who went for the min
    I disagree strongly that Napier is a better fit in our system than Frazier. I also don't think he is such a lock that he doesn't struggle to make the roster. The dude signed a 2yr deal for the minimum with a TEAM option on the 2nd year. That is about as replacement level as you can get.

    Garret Temple was traded, not sure how he fits into a discussion about using our cap to SIGN a player.

    Rose doesn't fit our system at all. Maybe it'd have be worth it to try to get him but he went back specifically to pair himself with his old coach. We might have reached out to him and found he had no interest.

    So, yet again, there was simply no way to add some outstanding backup PG who would have been able to handle starter minutes after Payton got injured after we lost Rondo and signed Randle.

    Ask your, would you rather Yogi OR Randle? Because the guys that you wouldn't be upset with starting at PG would have cost us losing Randle.

  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    I disagree strongly that Napier is a better fit in our system than Frazier. I also don't think he is such a lock that he doesn't struggle to make the roster. The dude signed a 2yr deal for the minimum with a TEAM option on the 2nd year. That is about as replacement level as you can get.

    Garret Temple was traded, not sure how he fits into a discussion about using our cap to SIGN a player.

    Rose doesn't fit our system at all. Maybe it'd have be worth it to try to get him but he went back specifically to pair himself with his old coach. We might have reached out to him and found he had no interest.

    So, yet again, there was simply no way to add some outstanding backup PG who would have been able to handle starter minutes after Payton got injured after we lost Rondo and signed Randle.

    Ask your, would you rather Yogi OR Randle? Because the guys that you wouldn't be upset with starting at PG would have cost us losing Randle.
    What difference does it make whether its trade or FA? I dont care what we are discussing. There were opportunities to improve this team we wasted a 2nd on Tony Carr who instantly will never see the NBA. Gotta take advantage of every little crease you get. Im not saying it's dell's biggest flaw or anything. But great GMs consistently field deep teams. Especially when you have plenty of room under the lux tax.

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelifan View Post
    What difference does it make whether its trade or FA? I dont care what we are discussing. There were opportunities to improve this team we wasted a 2nd on Tony Carr who instantly will never see the NBA. Gotta take advantage of every little crease you get. Im not saying it's dell's biggest flaw or anything. But great GMs consistently field deep teams. Especially when you have plenty of room under the lux tax.
    You honestly think a late 2nd round pick was gonna be able to net us a rotational PG that could spot start for us? LOL

    Dell is the King of small moves. It's about the best thing he does. You're pretending like he didn't try to do anything this summer. You just want a reason to complain about him.

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    You honestly think a late 2nd round pick was gonna be able to net us a rotational PG that could spot start for us? LOL

    Dell is the King of small moves. It's about the best thing he does. You're pretending like he didn't try to do anything this summer. You just want a reason to complain about him.
    No, I never said that 2nd would get us a pg, just that it was wasted on a player who wasnt even good in college. you're putting words in my mouth. You cant honestly be happy with the depth on this team. Dell really isnt that good at the small moves. King of the small moves finds actual good players like Pat Riley getting starters for dirt cheap, overpaid them except richardson, but whatever, or and this is my larger point here with the tony carr pick, accumulate assets to use in trades to get rotation players like Korver or Temple, pelicans have zero trade assets. Diallo, and Frank Jackson have yet to prove rotation players, We let our best pickup in Ennis go for no reason, we've brought about half the league in over the past 5 years, only Miller is a player worth remembering, and have still looked like garbage when AD leaves the floor just about every year. You can always point the finger at injuries but we arent a special snowflake in the injury department, every team gets injuries and they still win games. It's either coaching or Dell, pick one because being .500 with probably a top 7 team in top end talent is unacceptable. Teams pack the paint against the pels because they dont expect a lot of the bench players to do anything, and the defense by that group, Frazier especially couldnt be worse. You know it's really bad when we are begging for a player the magic didnt want and the suns didnt extend a QO to, to come in and save our team from bad perimeter defense and ugly turnovers.


    You may know more basketball than a lot of people on this forum, but I know as much if not more than you do so this MM thing you're doing of putting words in others mouths to try and win arguments needs to stop.

  5. #80
    the difference between denver and NO right now is Denver has found depth. Monte Morris is a baller, probably exactly what we need. 20 spots behind frank jackson. Literally pick any team and I'll show you a nice player they got later in the draft or undrafted and developed into a nice player, except the pelicans. our cupboard is bare and we enter every offseason with tons of holes. Dell just shops at goodwill for NBA players at a high volume and maybe has like a 20% success rate and none of them stick, thats not being good at the small moves, thats making a lot of small moves.

  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelifan View Post
    No, I never said that 2nd would get us a pg, just that it was wasted on a player who wasnt even good in college. you're putting words in my mouth. You cant honestly be happy with the depth on this team. Dell really isnt that good at the small moves. King of the small moves finds actual good players like Pat Riley getting starters for dirt cheap, overpaid them except richardson, but whatever, or and this is my larger point here with the tony carr pick, accumulate assets to use in trades to get rotation players like Korver or Temple, pelicans have zero trade assets. Diallo, and Frank Jackson have yet to prove rotation players, We let our best pickup in Ennis go for no reason, we've brought about half the league in over the past 5 years, only Miller is a player worth remembering, and have still looked like garbage when AD leaves the floor just about every year. You can always point the finger at injuries but we arent a special snowflake in the injury department, every team gets injuries and they still win games. It's either coaching or Dell, pick one because being .500 with probably a top 7 team in top end talent is unacceptable. Teams pack the paint against the pels because they dont expect a lot of the bench players to do anything, and the defense by that group, Frazier especially couldnt be worse. You know it's really bad when we are begging for a player the magic didnt want and the suns didnt extend a QO to, to come in and save our team from bad perimeter defense and ugly turnovers.


    You may know more basketball than a lot of people on this forum, but I know as much if not more than you do so this MM thing you're doing of putting words in others mouths to try and win arguments needs to stop.
    So what exactly did you want Dell to do? He didn't waste the 2nd round pick. They are the ones that held private workouts and saw ALL of these players in person. Not you, not me, not any of us. Who would you have drafted with that pick that is tearing up the league right now? Carr has been playing pretty good in Europe, maybe just like Miller he just needs time to develop over there.

    You sit here and complain that Dell didn't sign a backup PG. I point out that we went after guards but didn't have the money to sign anyone. So then you complain Dell "wasted" a late 2nd round pick and said he could have traded for a PG. Ok, first you have no idea how Carr will develop. Second who should Dell have drafted that you were calling for At The Time? There's like less than a 2% chance that we'd hit even a rotation player at where we were drafting and probably much lower that they make an immediate impact. You seriously complaining Dell didn't hit those odds? Third, exactly what assets do you want to give up for a backup PG? You wanna use our 1st round pick on one and then not be able to make a bigger move later?

    You're acting like Dell has done nothing this summer when the truth is he got both Payton and Randle on crazy deals. But suddenly he doesn't get credit for bringing in two starters? He doesn't get credit for the Niko trade just a few months previously?

    This isn't some vacuum where teams have to either take the deal Dell offers or not trade at all. Dell went after plenty of guards in trades, he went after plenty of guards in free agency.

    Again, I ask would you rather have Randle or Yogi Ferrell? This isn't a video game where you can just trade override or ignore the cap and get whatever you want.

    What our depth was, is irrelevant. What were we supposed to do THIS SUMMER that would have made you happy?

    You talk about Diallo and Jackson not having value. That's the present. What, are you upset Dell took shots at 1st round talent that hasn't panned out yet? Every team misses. Most A LOT worse than Dell. The Lakers let Randle walk for nothing. You mention Pat Riley as a king of small moves then turn around and admit he's overpaid all of those small moves except Richardson.

    You wanna complain, that's fine, there's certainly plenty to be upset about with this disappointment of a team but stop trying to rewrite history to complain like Dell did nothing this summer and was just ignoring PG depth. Tony Carr was a freaking PG! What about Blueitt? He was aware and made several attempts to get a backup PG, unfortunately this isn't 2k where he can just get whatever he wants.

    Complain all you want just don't build false narratives and strawmen to do the complaining and not expect to be called on it.
    Last edited by Mythrol; 12-08-2018 at 08:53 AM.

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    So what exactly did you want Dell to do? He didn't waste the 2nd round pick. They are the ones that held private workouts and saw ALL of these players in person. Not you, not me, not any of us. Who would you have drafted with that pick that is tearing up the league right now? Carr has been playing pretty good in Europe, maybe just like Miller he just needs time to develop over there.

    You sit here and complain that Dell didn't sign a backup PG. I point out that we went after guards but didn't have the money to sign anyone. So then you complain Dell "wasted" a late 2nd round pick and said he could have traded for a PG. Ok, first you have no idea how Carr will develop. Second who should Dell have drafted that you were calling for At The Time? There's like less than a 2% chance that we'd hit even a rotation player at where we were drafting and probably much lower that they make an immediate impact. You seriously complaining Dell didn't hit those odds? Third, exactly what assets do you want to give up for a backup PG? You wanna use our 1st round pick on one and then not be able to make a bigger move later?

    You're acting like Dell has done nothing this summer when the truth is he got both Payton and Randle on crazy deals. But suddenly he doesn't get credit for bringing in two starters? He doesn't get credit for the Niko trade just a few months previously?

    This isn't some vacuum where teams have to either take the deal Dell offers or not trade at all. Dell went after plenty of guards in trades, he went after plenty of guards in free agency.

    Again, I ask would you rather have Randle or Yogi Ferrell? This isn't a video game where you can just trade override or ignore the cap and get whatever you want.

    What our depth was, is irrelevant. What were we supposed to do THIS SUMMER that would have made you happy?

    You talk about Diallo and Jackson not having value. That's the present. What, are you upset Dell took shots at 1st round talent that hasn't panned out yet? Every team misses. Most A LOT worse than Dell. The Lakers let Randle walk for nothing. You mention Pat Riley as a king of small moves then turn around and admit he's overpaid all of those small moves except Richardson.

    You wanna complain, that's fine, there's certainly plenty to be upset about with this disappointment of a team but stop trying to rewrite history to complain like Dell did nothing this summer and was just ignoring PG depth. Tony Carr was a freaking PG! What about Blueitt? He was aware and made several attempts to get a backup PG, unfortunately this isn't 2k where he can just get whatever he wants.

    Complain all you want just don't build false narratives and strawmen to do the complaining and not expect to be called on it.
    Dell has made some nice moves in the last half year, but even in the last half year he hasnt been perfect. IMO we could have gotten Payton for the min freeing the room to use elsewhere, we could have done something with the 2nd other than draft a big inefficient shooting, turnover prone, bad defense pg. You say who was availble besides Tony Carr? Trier looks like he has talent, Milton is at least on a roster or just trade the pick or sell it, to get something to use in future trades. The real issue is Demps dug himself into such a big hole by having so few rotation players. I think you'd be surprised to know most teams dont have to make patchwork moves every summer. The reason the Pelicans and Houston are under-performing right now is they lack depth but at least Houston has the excuse of being a team deep in the lux tax. We have 2nd rounders, we clearly need perimeter talent, just make the freakin move. We cant keep having the teams best players lead the NBA in minutes at the pace that we play at. Dell has been here a long time, the teams depth doesnt cut it. You can say what more could dell do all you want but good players took the min this summer from not us, and Dell has had 8 years to build a quality team around a franchise player.

  8. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelifan View Post
    Dell has made some nice moves in the last half year, but even in the last half year he hasnt been perfect. IMO we could have gotten Payton for the min freeing the room to use elsewhere, we could have done something with the 2nd other than draft a big inefficient shooting, turnover prone, bad defense pg. You say who was availble besides Tony Carr? Trier looks like he has talent, Milton is at least on a roster or just trade the pick or sell it, to get something to use in future trades. The real issue is Demps dug himself into such a big hole by having so few rotation players. I think you'd be surprised to know most teams dont have to make patchwork moves every summer. The reason the Pelicans and Houston are under-performing right now is they lack depth but at least Houston has the excuse of being a team deep in the lux tax. We have 2nd rounders, we clearly need perimeter talent, just make the freakin move. We cant keep having the teams best players lead the NBA in minutes at the pace that we play at. Dell has been here a long time, the teams depth doesnt cut it. You can say what more could dell do all you want but good players took the min this summer from not us, and Dell has had 8 years to build a quality team around a franchise player.
    Oh I see. So just create imaginary scenarios to try and hose Dell, "I think we could have gotten Payton for the min."

    You're solution to fixing the guard depth is to sell the pick, draft a non PG, draft a PG that has played a total of 11 minutes in only one game, or trade it away for future trades.

    Good players took the min? Name the PGs who took the minimum other than Rose going back to his first coach.

    You're not being realistic and just want a reason to complain about Dell. Going into this season everyone was saying this was the best roster AD has ever played with. Suddenly 1/4 of the way into the season and this team lacks depth. Of course we want a team with 15 starters on it but not even Golden State has that. The truth is we added as much as we could this off season given our cap situation.

    You wanna complain that Dell hasn't put enough talent around AD, I disagree, but sure go ahead. But don't try and rewrite this summer like everything could have been different with the PG depth if Dell hadn't screwed it up.
    Last edited by Mythrol; 12-08-2018 at 02:48 PM.

  9. #84
    Dell is not problem, two issues, poor effort on pick and roll defense, Gentry not confident in bench. If we don't reduce AD and Jrue's mins. we are asking for disaster. Plus AD don't want to play the 5. We need to work on trade w/Buls. Won't help the PG issue, but give us playable depth. Solo and Wes and a pick for Holiday and Lopez. This the third time I proposed this trade. Maybe this time it will stick.

  10. #85
    RIP BDJ AUSSIE_PELICAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Nail View Post
    Dell is not problem, two issues, poor effort on pick and roll defense, Gentry not confident in bench. If we don't reduce AD and Jrue's mins. we are asking for disaster. Plus AD don't want to play the 5. We need to work on trade w/Buls. Won't help the PG issue, but give us playable depth. Solo and Wes and a pick for Holiday and Lopez. This the third time I proposed this trade. Maybe this time it will stick.
    I agree this team needs a rim protector as much as they need a PG. We aint going to get a SF who can guard the Lebron's and Durant's.

    I'f Brooklyn don't extend Dinwiddie then I'd offer Hill and our 1st for Carroll and Dinwiddie. Then offer Wes Johnson,Tim Frazier and a future 2nd for Dedmon.

  11. #86
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! AusPel's Avatar
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    Frazier is not a starting PG means but by golly gosh, he's really been good for us over the past month

    He shouldn't be asked to play 30 mins a night but here we are because of the stupid Payton injury

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Nail View Post
    I'm ok with the players, just not the contracts. We need better options this summer. Better to have all expiring
    That's why I selected Dinwiddie, Carroll and Dedman. All expirings.

  13. #88
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! AusPel's Avatar
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    I'm seeing Solo get back into form and I think his size is severely need on defense next to Jrue in the backcourt on defense.

    Is it worth swapping Solo to Carroll using a 1st? I'm not so sure

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    I'm seeing Solo get back into form and I think his size is severely need on defense next to Jrue in the backcourt on defense.

    Is it worth swapping Solo to Carroll using a 1st? I'm not so sure
    Solo hasn't got a chance against guys like Durant, Lebron, Kawhi or Giannis. Carroll can guard those guys better than average.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN View Post
    Solo hasn't got a chance against guys like Durant, Lebron, Kawhi or Giannis. Carroll can guard those guys better than average.
    Carroll isn't doing any better than Hill against the guys you listed

    In my opinion

    Hill has been defending wings well in the past week. He had major brain farts 2 or 3 weeks ago but he's playing with confidence now and that's all you can ask despite the contract.

    He's such a freight train when he drives but his ball handling lets him down massively.

    If only he could clean up the ball handling on the drive he'd be a huge threat

    He's also pretty terrible finishing at the rim with his right, but so is Jrue.
    Last edited by AusPel; 12-08-2018 at 08:25 PM.

  16. #91
    Hill being better of late could help make a trade happen. We must get rid of his salary. Only chance to keep JR and NICO

  17. #92
    Frank has 12 in first half tonight, scored 20 first game. If he has good second half, we will probably call back up

  18. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN View Post
    I agree this team needs a rim protector as much as they need a PG. We aint going to get a SF who can guard the Lebron's and Durant's.

    I'f Brooklyn don't extend Dinwiddie then I'd offer Hill and our 1st for Carroll and Dinwiddie. Then offer Wes Johnson,Tim Frazier and a future 2nd for Dedmon.
    I really like this idea. Those are the 3 names that keep coming up as reasonable attainable great fits. Ed Davis from the Nets also could fit well. I'd even offer Mirotic in place of Hill and 1st, if Nets would rather, or re-route Mirotic to a third team for players & picks Nets would more prefer.

    Seems like Nets will extend Dinwiddie's contract, right? Or at least keep him going into FA, where his cap hold is a low number. Dinwiddie does seem like such a good fit long-term at PG (with Payton still in the mix, hopefully), but I just see a talent-needing team like the Nets keeping Spencer.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Nail View Post
    I'm ok with the players, just not the contracts. We need better options this summer. Better to have all expiring
    I’m the exact opposite. Let’s zig while everyone zags. I don’t want to get into bidding wars with anyone because we’ll lose either by not getting the player or way over paying. I’ve also been wanting to keep Niko but maybe coming around on moving him. If you could get Warren for the suns and something else I’d do it. Here’s a trade that makes sense to me for everyone just have exchange ayton And Jackson for ariza.

    http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybzueous
    Link won’t work but everyone wins except suns. Used ayton and Jackson in place of Ariza to make money work

    Philly gets niko, Wesley
    Suns get fultz hill and fillers
    Wiz get chandler and Ariza both expiring
    Pels get warren, porter, korkmaz, and Holmes

    We roll into next year with Davis, Jrue, Warren, and Porter. We finally got a couple wings that could play small ball 4 when needed.
    Last edited by tdcreator; 12-09-2018 at 10:34 AM.

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