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The only official candidate is gentry, and that factual so far i have gentry at vegas on being the pelicans coach
Between JVG and gentry, JVG coaching record is too good to pass, people question his pace, but if it wins games, it wins game.. since when do spurs or memphis rely on pace? Its not the only formula to success, Monty never relied on it either, and our offense was quite special at times last season
Let's just be clear - Gentry is the only candidate that the media has told you Dell has spoke to
That does not make him the only official candidate.
Just so we are clear here
@mcnamara247
Not to the organisation, and insiders, but us as a forum yesOriginally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
Forget any insider info, which people who have it might not be allowed to share, and let's just think logically.
Do you think it is more likely that
A) Dell met with Gentry on Monday and then didn't talk to any other candidates Tuesday-Saturday
Or
B) Dell met with Gentry Monday and then spoke to several candidates over the next 5 days
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I told Jimmy Smith to his face that he has an agenda and you woulda thought I caught him stealing out an old ladies purse they way he responded. He has no access. His a pissed off old man. I wish i knew the juicy details, but I was able to deduce enough from his responses to me.
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Loomis and Co always play things close to the vest.
If something leaks, it's not from them (unless it's to Jay Glazer).
I'm sure they've told candidates to keep it on lock.
I'm starting to feel like Atkinson may be their top candidates. I hate to do it but I'm now rooting for Cleveland to sweep them so that we can get on with the show.
I doubt the Pels will comply with JVG's salary and control of personnel decisions demands. I am sure he is interested but at what price?
Frankly if guys like Thibs, JVG or any other proven coach want some say in personnel decisions and that is a barrier, this organization doesn't deserve a great coach.
Demps isn't Buford or Presti or Morey or Myers. He is a guy on the hot seat who has made some controversial big moves of which none have fully panned out with regards to expectation. Maybe that is all on Monty but I doubt it. And I doubt Loomis and Co. Doubt it either.
If some proven guys want to have final personnel say I am ok with that. Part of Demps own problem is he set Monty up for failure in many ways by actively going against the grain of what Monty desired personnel wise. He rushed the rebuild but also did it by getting players that didn't exactly fit with what his coach wanted or needed. Regardless of how their relationship began that is a red flag for me and makes me wonder if Demps is more interested in securing power or improving the organization. That is if he truly is against allowing coaches influence and say like Payton gets with the Saints and did from day one.
I'm not saying he'll come cheap, but this is a situation where the coaching job is more valuable to the coach than the candidates are to the team. Coaching AD is the type of job that can put a guy like Van Gundy in the Phil/Pop conversation.
JVG proved he can win years ago, but has ?'s with him today. Thibs has proven he can win games, but has been to one conference final. I agree with you to a point: if a guy is a slam dunk obvious hire, you don't let Demps deter you. I think it's really up in the air, though, that Thibs or JVG are better options in the first place than some of the others out there, before even factoring in you'd be giving them more $$ and power.
What has Demps proven over Thibs and JVG that he should be the only voice on personnel decisions? Or that in this hypothetical he has earned the right to turn away guys because he is being asked to relinquish some say to the coach he potentially hires?
Frankly though this is all just that, a hypothetical. If Demps is that insecure that he is unwilling to listen to input from his coaches and possibly willing to sacrifice a little bit of control to proven winners, well, I don't want Demps here either. But I don't actually think that is the case. My guess is whoever he hires he will have a vested interest and will very much be listening to the coaches needs similar to Payton and Loomis.
You know, this is an interesting point and one I've wondered about for a while. How much say should a GM really have in the style of basketball the team should play? This seems a little backwards to me. The GM and the coach MUST be on the same page with personnel decisions, but it doesn't mean that the GM should be the one dictating the style of play the team should have. To me, the GM's job should be to act as the check and balance to make sure the team is sustainable, and that the numbers work. Maybe I'm spoiled by the Loomis/Payton relationship on the Saints, but to me, that's the ideal.
I'm at least 90% with you Bronco, and I might be 100% depending on what your stance is. I believe that it is important that Dell hire a coach he's comfortable with. But Dell should also be comfortable enough to yield some of the direction to the coach.
Where Monty went wrong is trying to make this team play a style of basketball that completely doesn't suit it. However, Dell is also guilty by putting together a team that Monty doesn't believe in. I don't want my GM being the one deciding what kind of ball we should be playing. That should be reserved for the coach.
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I feel like the answer is staring me right in the face, but I'm missing one crucial bit of context clues to figure it out.
I think the upcoming personell moves should/would be discussed during the interview; hence, it becomes obvious whether or not it's even an issue of who has the 'power' because they see they're on the same page.
If you sit around talking hoops for several hours w a guy it becomes obvious if you can work w him.
Thats the process. IMO thats why Dell must interview several top notch candidates to see which one he wouldnt mind relrelinquishing the 'power' too cause yal are on the same page.
If for some reason Dell wants some coach who says he doesnt mind Dell choosing the players and he will coach whomever Dell chooses.
Then Dell is an ego-maniac and should be canned. But surely that is not the case. In Dell we trust
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We need to stop 2nd guessing Demps. Theres was clearly a small schism between him and Monty and the powers that be chose Demps. We keep evaluating his moves like they were done in a vacuum. If my boss comes to me and says make Lasagna for a client and I do a so-so job its not necessarily my fault. I work in sales, im not a chef. Point is we dont know what was asked or told of Demps, regardless hes here now and it looks like they are giving him keys. That being said, I dont blame him for not wanting to deal with any coach that wants signigicant input on personnel. I want him to find somone that he can collaborate with. Control is not collaboration. Until I see teams winning consistently with thw Coach/GM model then no thanks. Ill pass. I dont care who you are. We live in too advanced a society based on specialization and efficiency to do something so arcane as that. Collaboration. Culture. Core Values. I want someone who shares that with Demps. Thats what we need.
It's ridiculous to sit here and say Demps has never done anything to warrant power because he's not Presti and blah blah. What has Presti done that Demps hasn't? Drafted 2 guys who basically make that team great? Demps drafted Davis and should get credit for that also then. Traded away Harden which is one of the worst moves any GM has made in a decade. Presti has not done much more than Demps and Demps has actually made a lot of great moves. All of these theories and that's exactly what they are that Demps is trying to control what the teams runs as a coach upstairs is bs. Monty didn't change his coaching style or pace because Demps wanted it. Demps wants a coach he sees eye to eye with like any GM does. Its not like he will be playing coach from the GM spot because he doesn't have to do that. Reason is because he will hire a coach that will run the team the way he envisions and the coach obviously envisions which would be the reason he is hired. He gave Monty some say so in how the roster was built so what makes you believe a new coach won't get the same input but even more since it will be Demps hire who has the same philosophies. Everything regarding what Demps wants with power and other stuff is nothing but pure speculation with 0 facts on the matter when he has actually proven the opposite. Let the guy hire his coach and rebuild this roster with the coach then criticize him but just speculating on stuff we have no idea about makes no sense especially when he has proven to give his coach say so on some roster moves and run a different style he didn't like.
Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 05-25-2015 at 02:39 AM.
Exactly! I think exactly what he is looking for is someone that sees things the same way as him and would love to have roster input from them. It will be his hire and his guy who I'm sure he will fully trust on the guys he wants since they both have some of the same philosophies. Let Demps do all of the scouting and analytics to present to a coach so they can make decisions together on what guys fit their mold and what guys don't. They mite disagree on some things which isn't a problem at all as long as they work together and trust each other. I have no reason to believe someone like JVG wouldn't value a guy like Demps in the front office who could actually be a perfect fit for him. I think with the relationship Loomis and Demps have it seems to be pretty good and I'm sure he has gotten a little mentoring from him to look for a coach he can make decisions together with because they see eye to eye just like Loomis and Payton. For the most part Loomis and his scouts do all of the scouting and gathering information on players while working out the salaries and what players are possible to acquire and etc. Loomis presents these things to Payton who in return works with him on what guys would be a good and they make a decision together. This allows Payton to coach and concentrate on what he needs to. Demps would give JVG the ability to coach and trust Demps will present him with everything he needs while they work together on what is best for he team. I don't think JVG would be reaching out for the job or be a possible candidate of he didn't believe Demps could be a guy he likes and thinks he could work with. I doubt he is trying to show interest and push Demps out at the same time just for full control of the team.
I know that everyone wants to know NOW who the next coach will be. But we all have to trust him.
This season was a great success.
-most of the people agreed that Monty was not a long term answer for the team. now we will have a new coach - Dell Demps' coach.
-team showed promise and advanced to PO.
-AD and others gained experience.
Now it is time for another jump, and at least one home run. First with coach, than with player(s)...
Everything according to the plan. Dell Demps' plan.
I agree. Monty was great being a mentor for AD and bringing him along. He was able to help our guys grow and improve even though I thought he could be the guy. We now have a chance to get the guy that can take these guys to the next level being a master of the X and Os while teaching our team the game of basketball. Demps will be able to build the roster with a coach the way they want instead of with Monty when they were both trying to put guys they liked on the team with mixed results. I trust Demps and believe he can be one of the better GMs in the league. I always liked Demps and Monty but if I had to keep one it would hands down be Demps and I'm very happy Loomis saw this in him also. If Loomis didn't like and believe in the guy then he would have been fired with Monty to clean house. Loomis must really see something in him to keep someone that wasn't his hire. They have spent a lot of time together so if Loomis believes in him we all should. Until Demps gives me a reason to think he isn't the guy then I'm behind him 100%.
Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 05-25-2015 at 05:16 AM.
I'm sorry, but the Dell fandom is out of control.
Obviously I'm rooting for the guy to succeed because if he's successful, then the Pelicans are successful but can we tone it down a bit ffs
Same here. I'm mean it's not like he proved more than any GM in history, but people treat him like he is the best GM in the world. I mean for the whole coaching issue, it's like the draft, you have to pick the best coach available. If you have to go with the lesser talent just for th sake of the fit, I think the guy should at least proved he's an all-time GM and in the last five years he didn't prove it.
Last edited by Blattman; 05-25-2015 at 07:13 AM.
he does not need to be all time great
he just need to be good in his work (having AD in his team)
just give him a chance to realize his project. give him one year with his coach
then evaluate
I see the doubts with Gordon's contract, Holiday, Rivers, Asik. But we did not know were they his own decisions/how this will look with the health of a player etc.
Give him time. And hope for a healthy Holiday. Everything else is in his hands. Health is not.
Luck is maybe (see ping pong balls with AD)
So why fire Monty then ? A very similar case could have been made for him but everyone seems to agree that it was a good move to have him gone ! May be if we gave Monty a GM that will pursue players for his system instead of player for his own philosophy it would have work, he wouldn't have to be all time great !
Now let say the franchise chose to go with Dell's way, let him the full power to chose the coach he wants. What if it doesn't work ? Pels fire Demps and our newly hired coach one year later ? And then how do you sell this idea to AD ? "Look man, we screwed one another year of your carreer but at least we have realized that our GM wasn't good".
Come on guys, when I see some comments here I can't help but to see this scene :
What great moves has he made to make this team an actual contender?
Emeka Okafor - Joe Smith - Carmelo Anthony - Manu Ginobili - Jason Williams
Al Jefferson - James Posey - Aaron McKie - Shaun Livingston
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