Jeff Van Gundy is now a candidate ???

[All Metro]

I kinda feel the news of the formal interview deserves its own thread.

Lots of people don't always come back to old threads like this once they have tired of the initial discussions.

Exactly


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[4Real]

I kinda feel the news of the formal interview deserves its own thread.

Lots of people don't always come back to old threads like this once they have tired of the initial discussions.

Ok. How do you remove the question marks off the title? Quailman can you do this?

[GuardianAngel25]

You are a joke. Seriously. Hasn't done much more? Playoffs 5 out of 8 seasons with a championship appearance.

The best draft success in the last decade, in the conversation for one of the best draft success streaks of all time.

No other GM has managed to find 4 top tier players at their position in the last decade besides Presti.

And he didn't just luck into those draft picks either and he could of easily went the Demps route and traded his picks after he got Durant. He was smart enough and didn't.

Ibaka was 24th. Westbrook was largely considered a reach at 4 until people realized what he was. Harden seems like a sure bet now but there were questions of maybe they should of gone with Rubio or Evans instead of him. Since then he has filled out that roster with what many consider to be the most talented group next to Golden State in the West.

Has he made mistakes? Sure, but you talk **** about Harden and then completely ignore our CP3 trade. They at least got some young bench depth and a young promising Center, we got an injury prone guard with an attitude problem early on(that we then turned around and made him a 15 million dollar max offer and one of the worst contracts in the league), and a guy not even on our team anymore.

Then we traded 2 1st round picks for a guy that has been on the court almost less then the overpriced guy. A guy who I like a lot and think can be very good but we traded away the rare opportunity that only OKC has had in recent times which is to have 1-3 more early lottery picks after hitting a grand slam on your first rebuilding year. We rushed the rebuild and all that has led to is a first round exit and our coach getting fired.

On pure strategy alone Presti is the better GM. Presti understood the opportunity he had after getting Durant his first go round in the rebuild period. He didn't get drunk and hit the throttle on the rebuild and try and rush things. He stood the course, knowing that Durant, like Davis, needed a couple years to get his feet under him in the league and once he did the chance to ever sniff the early part of the draft again will be permanently gone until his grand slam player is gone.

So he took that time of growth for his superstar to stockpile more lottery talent to hopefully find another star to put next to him in a league where top flight talent concentration is the best formula for success.

Dell on the other hand sold off those potential early lottery assets for those types of players that are available every year for a couple first rounders. As we saw with Dragic and soon to be Lawson and we saw with Mozgov, Kanter, Thomas etc.


Now if we want to talk about results? By Presti's 4th year the roster he built was in the conference finals, next year they were in the NBA finals. Dell got the 8th seed his 4th year and rode the tail end of the CP3 era his first.

For Dell to match Presti's success he would need a finals appearance next season. Not thinking that will happen regardless of who we hire.

I never said he didn't draft well. Your point? He has been given 3 top 4 picks while Dell has been given 1! He landed Ibaka and other than that he has done nothing to surround that team with players. If your trying to point out I said he didn't draft well find that. Never said he was equal to Dell either. Of course he has had a better career so far but Ther than a couple extra draft picks he has done jack and that's a fact. Must be nice to be able to pick in the top 4 for 3 years. How many GMs get that ability? Dell and Presti were put in completely different scenarios so comparing one got throttle drunk is so stupid. You are the gospel of this site and everything you post should be read as so. Or atleast that's how you feel.

[Primetime]

Selecting in the top 4 and leaving with Durant, Westbrook, and Harden is pretty impossible. Top 4 picks aren't as likely to hit as we think. The only easy choice when it was made was Durant (the whole world would have selected him) but the other 2 were seriously great selections that were super debatable at the time.

[GuardianAngel25]

Selecting in the top 4 and leaving with Durant, Westbrook, and Harden is pretty impossible. Top 4 picks aren't as likely to hit as we think. The only easy choice when it was made was Durant (the whole world would have selected him) but the other 2 were seriously great selections that were super debatable at the time.

Never said they weren't. I asked other than that what has the guy done? He has made some nice picks but put a pretty terrible roster around them. He traded away Harden for nothing. CP3 deal was basically run by the ownership. Dell has had 1 pick worth anything to draft and has had to basically force this team to be good fast. He didn't have the vote of confidence to let this team play like trash for 3 years to rebuild. All I said is other than picking in the top 4 he has not done much and he hasn't. The real test will be to see how great he is when he loses those guys because of the teams he has put around them.

[GuardianAngel25]

I like how Presti gets all of the credit for Harden now being a super star. He was good when he was there but if Presti had even a whiff he would be near this good he would have never traded him and especially not for scraps. For comparison say Rivers turns into a star would Dell get credit for that? Hell no he would be burned at the stake for trading him away and get absolutely 0 credit other than being the guy who screwed up.

[billfromfinance]

I like how Presti gets all of the credit for Harden now being a super star. He was good when he was there but if Presti had even a whiff he would be near this good he would have never traded him and especially not for scraps. For comparison say Rivers turns into a star would Dell get credit for that? Hell no he would be burned at the stake for trading him away and get absolutely 0 credit other than being the guy who screwed up.

Rivers never won 6th man of the year in his time here.

[504ByrdGang]

Watching GSW offense I would love to see that here. If I'm dell I tell Gentry the job is yours if you can get Adams to join your staff.

[GuardianAngel25]

Watching GSW offense I would love to see that here. If I'm dell I tell Gentry the job is yours if you can get Adams to join your staff.

That offense is fine but take away Thompson for Evans and Curry for Holiday. Tell me what you get. I love Holiday but that offense is built around those players. We need our own identity and if Gentry can bring that I'm all for him.

[N.O.Bronco]

I never said he didn't draft well. Your point? He has been given 3 top 4 picks while Dell has been given 1! He landed Ibaka and other than that he has done nothing to surround that team with players. If your trying to point out I said he didn't draft well find that. Never said he was equal to Dell either. Of course he has had a better career so far but Ther than a couple extra draft picks he has done jack and that's a fact. Must be nice to be able to pick in the top 4 for 3 years. How many GMs get that ability? Dell and Presti were put in completely different scenarios so comparing one got throttle drunk is so stupid. You are the gospel of this site and everything you post should be read as so. Or atleast that's how you feel.

Dell chose not to have any more top picks. You ignore that and I touched as to why that is. Dell was the only GM since Presti(and few before him) that had the rare opportunity to stockpile 2-3 more very early lottery picks AFTER he found his Superstar to build around on his first at bat. If the Pelicans didn't immediately chase a fast rebuild after landing Davis we likely would of ended up in the top 5 the following year and likely last year. It is EXACTLY the same situation as the Thunder.

Dell chose to forgo that route and instead took a different route. The successive 3 drafts he ended up with Jrue Holliday and Omer Asik after all is said and done. Guys who near equivalent talent level are found almost any season with 1 or more first rounders or through FA with a possible slight overpay. Your Harden's and Westbrook's don't come along to small markets with not much winning history through that method pretty much ever. And late round gems are rare. Especially if you don't have the winning and development infrastructure in place to mold those later round finds.

As for the talent he has put around those guys? I'd say Westbrook and Durant have a top 5 or so supporting cast going into next season in the West. Ibaka, Kanter, Morrow, Augustin, Adams and then they have a few guys that still have upside and if their coach truly is an upgrade should look better. Plus they pick 14th this draft. Which gives them another chance to add an asset.

There is a reason experts think the Thunder have the best chance to dethrone the Warriors if healthy next season.

As for the personal attacks, Ill just take the high road there.

[Silverfoxx]

Many comments I'm reading from outsiders is that JVG is a terrible coach and and bad choice. I don't get it. Had to leave, literally gave me a headache reading the nonsense on the internet.

[N.O.Bronco]

Many comments I'm reading from outsiders is that JVG is a terrible coach and and bad choice. I don't get it. Had to leave, literally gave me a headache reading the nonsense on the internet.

Ive heard the same. But a lot of the criticisms don't hold up to scrutiny. "he stay married to 90's offense far too long." But then it was actually Gundy that called out Morey for not listening to the numbers as they both began to embrace analytics. With the less famous "you either believe this **** or you don't" quote from JVG to Morey.

I still have my concerns and as nice as it is to have the best coaching jobs in some time, there is no one guy I look at and say to myself this guy is a surefire homerun. JVG, Thibs, Hoiberg, Atkinson, Malone, etc. all have some serious question marks.

[GuardianAngel25]

Dell chose not to have any more top picks. You ignore that and I touched as to why that is. Dell was the only GM since Presti(and few before him) that had the rare opportunity to stockpile 2-3 more very early lottery picks AFTER he found his Superstar to build around on his first at bat. If the Pelicans didn't immediately chase a fast rebuild after landing Davis we likely would of ended up in the top 5 the following year and likely last year. It is EXACTLY the same situation as the Thunder.
Dell chose to forgo that route and instead took a different route. The successive 3 drafts he ended up with Jrue Holliday and Omer Asik after all is said and done. Guys who near equivalent talent level are found almost any season with 1 or more first rounders or through FA with a possible slight overpay. Your Harden's and Westbrook's don't come along to small markets with not much winning history through that method pretty much ever. And late round gems are rare. Especially if you don't have the winning and development infrastructure in place to mold those later round finds.

As for the talent he has put around those guys? I'd say Westbrook and Durant have a top 5 or so supporting cast going into next season in the West. Ibaka, Kanter, Morrow, Augustin, Adams and then they have a few guys that still have upside and if their coach truly is an upgrade should look better. Plus they pick 14th this draft. Which gives them another chance to add an asset.

There is a reason experts think the Thunder have the best chance to dethrone the Warriors if healthy next season.

As for the personal attacks, Ill just take the high road there.

If Dell took the Thunder route he would have been fired so long ago! You don't take that into account at all. I stated multiple times they were put in completely different situations. The picks we traded away also were not top 5 picks and you don't stumble on 22 year old all star PGs very often and if you do tell me who? Yea now the Thunder have finally put some decent pieces around those players but nothing before this. Tell me where I personal attacked you haha? Keep whining when your the one telling me I was a joke? But your crying about the high road. Your the type that thinks everything you say is fact and anything someone else says is completely wrong unless you agree with it which cracks me up. I feel terrible for the girl that has to deal with you.

[N.O.Bronco]

If Dell took the Thunder route he would have been fired so long ago! You don't take that into account at all. I stated multiple times they were put in completely different situations. The picks we traded away also were not top 5 picks and you don't stumble on 22 year old all star PGs very often and if you do tell me who? Yea now the Thunder have finally put some decent pieces around those players but nothing before this. Tell me where I personal attacked you haha? Keep whining when your the one telling me I was a joke? But your crying about the high road. Your the type that thinks everything you say is fact and anything someone else says is completely wrong unless you agree with it which cracks me up. I feel terrible for the girl that has to deal with you.

Noel was #6. Had we not traded for Jrue, added Evans, Signed Ryno and aimed to be a playoff team immediately following Davis's acquisition we would of no doubt picked higher then 10. Likely top 5. This season we likely would of been top 10. Had a lot more cap space, still be searching for a new coach and had the flexibility with future assets to sign a guy like Lawson or a big time SF or Center if our new coach wanted.

the other option was keeping a #1 pick in Noel that fell and going after Jeff Teague in FA. Who at the time could of likely been had for a slight overpay because the Hawks likely weren't going to overpay too much. Which we could of afforded to do.

but I am not going to repeat myself and explain my argument anymore given the continual devolution into personal attacks. When I said "you're a joke" I meant it in reference to your post. Which I clarified int he following sentence. But I can see the misinterpretation so on that I am sorry. But you clearly are intending to go after me personally. Not gonna play that game.

Tell me where I personal attacked you

How about read your following sentences wise guy?

Your the type that thinks everything you say is fact and anything someone else says is completely wrong unless you agree with it which cracks me up. I feel terrible for the girl that has to deal with you.

You are the gospel of this site and everything you post should be read as so.

Get lost with that ****.

[Primetime]

Never said they weren't. I asked other than that what has the guy done? He has made some nice picks but put a pretty terrible roster around them. He traded away Harden for nothing. CP3 deal was basically run by the ownership. Dell has had 1 pick worth anything to draft and has had to basically force this team to be good fast. He didn't have the vote of confidence to let this team play like trash for 3 years to rebuild. All I said is other than picking in the top 4 he has not done much and he hasn't. The real test will be to see how great he is when he loses those guys because of the teams he has put around them.

No one is going to be perfect. The Harden trade was terrible, and the Perkins trade wasn't great either. But to be fair to Presti, ownership also forced him into trading Harden because of contract issues. In a bigger market, they'd probably be a dynasty at this point. As for Dell, the ownership saved his butt by nixing the deal he wanted. And that deal singularly changed my view of him because that was about the most absurd trade I've ever heard of. That deal goes through and the Pelicans may never exist.

Also want to bring this up -- the Jrue trade in hindsight was a poor decision because the Pelicans were essentially handed a gift when Nerlens Noel fell to 6. I loved that trade at the time, but easily the correct thing to do was to be patient, select Noel, let him sit for a year and be right back near the top of the draft order the following year. The following year's top 5:

Andrew Wiggins
Jabari Parker
Joel Embiid
Aaron Gordon
Dante Exum

[GuardianAngel25]

Noel was #6. Had we not traded for Jrue, added Evans, Signed Ryno and aimed to be a playoff team immediately following Davis's acquisition we would of no doubt picked higher then 10. Likely top 5. This season we likely would of been top 10. Had a lot more cap space, still be searching for a new coach and had the flexibility with future assets to sign a guy like Lawson or a big time SF or Center if our new coach wanted.

the other option was keeping a #1 pick in Noel that fell and going after Jeff Teague in FA. Who at the time could of likely been had for a slight overpay because the Hawks likely weren't going to overpay too much. Which we could of afforded to do.

but I am not going to repeat myself and explain my argument anymore given the continual devolution into personal attacks. When I said "you're a joke" I meant it in reference to your post. Which I clarified int he following sentence. But I can see the misinterpretation so on that I am sorry. But you clearly are intending to go after me personally. Not gonna play that game.




How about read your following sentences wise guy?





Get lost with that ****.

Haha no I want to know where I personally attacked you when you posted that I personally attacked you? Nowhere but you just needed something to spew out your mouth. Yea the Hawks wouldn't have gone after Teague? Wrong they matched the Bucks offer and don't let him go wise guy.

[N.O.Bronco]

No one is going to be perfect. The Harden trade was terrible, and the Perkins trade wasn't great either. But to be fair to Presti, ownership also forced him into trading Harden because of contract issues. In a bigger market, they'd probably be a dynasty at this point. As for Dell, the ownership saved his butt by nixing the deal he wanted. And that deal singularly changed my view of him because that was about the most absurd trade I've ever heard of. That deal goes through and the Pelicans may never exist.

Also want to bring this up -- the Jrue trade in hindsight was a poor decision because the Pelicans were essentially handed a gift when Nerlens Noel fell to 6. I loved that trade at the time, but easily the correct thing to do was to be patient, select Noel, let him sit for a year and be right back near the top of the draft order the following year. The following year's top 5:

Andrew Wiggins
Jabari Parker
Joel Embiid
Aaron Gordon
Dante Exum

Great point.

Noel is emerging as a young, defensively elite Center that looks right at home in this new small ball/up tempo NBA. A guy with the athleticism to play smaller guys and the savvy and grit to hold his own against much bigger centers. And with 20 more pounds on him and a few more years I think we will be one of those "what if" articles if we had kept Noel to pair with Davis.

Not to say Jrue won't be very good for us but how much higher is his realistic ceiling then guys like Dragic, Lawson or Mike Conley(who is rumored to be testing the open market next season)? Guys we could realistically have acquired this offseason, during last season or next season?

[GuardianAngel25]

No one is going to be perfect. The Harden trade was terrible, and the Perkins trade wasn't great either. But to be fair to Presti, ownership also forced him into trading Harden because of contract issues. In a bigger market, they'd probably be a dynasty at this point. As for Dell, the ownership saved his butt by nixing the deal he wanted. And that deal singularly changed my view of him because that was about the most absurd trade I've ever heard of. That deal goes through and the Pelicans may never exist.

Also want to bring this up -- the Jrue trade in hindsight was a poor decision because the Pelicans were essentially handed a gift when Nerlens Noel fell to 6. I loved that trade at the time, but easily the correct thing to do was to be patient, select Noel, let him sit for a year and be right back near the top of the draft order the following year. The following year's top 5:

Andrew Wiggins
Jabari Parker
Joel Embiid
Aaron Gordon
Dante Exum

Dell simply wouldn't be here if he sat on his hands and waited. He did the same thing anyone else in his position would have done and that was to make that team competitive instantly. He was near fired after making the playoffs what do you think would have happened being a perrenial lottery team. He would have been gone years ago simple as that. I'll take an All Star PG like Jrue over Noel anyway. Jrue made the all star team at the most talented position in the NBA. Noel has done nothing at the weakest position in the NBA. It's easy to look back and say it was a bad trade and that is only because he had a fluke injury. Nowhere did I say Presti was bad I said he was a great with his draft picks. He has made some terrible decisions wether you think it was ownership or not which I don't believe it was. He has had a few good draft picks but has simply failed that team with surrounding them with talent. It's not an easy thing to do but he definitely didn't do a good job at it. never said Presti was bad at all I just don't see that he has done so much more than what Dell has considering what he was given. Completely different situations these guys were put in and for what Dell has done with what he was given has been a damn good job.

[GuardianAngel25]

Great point.

Noel is emerging as a young, defensively elite Center that looks right at home in this new small ball/up tempo NBA. A guy with the athleticism to play smaller guys and the savvy and grit to hold his own against much bigger centers. And with 20 more pounds on him and a few more years I think we will be one of those "what if" articles if we had kept Noel to pair with Davis.

Not to say Jrue won't be very good for us but how much higher is his realistic ceiling then guys like Dragic, Lawson or Mike Conley(who is rumored to be testing the open market next season)? Guys we could realistically have acquired this offseason, during last season or next season?

Hahaha you have got to be kidding me. He is an elite defensive center already but Jrue wasn't when we got him? Seriously? Your feelings are still hurt that you couldn't justify why Jrue was ahead of Conley and others you posted but behind Curry. Great point you presented there that Jrue wasn't as good as Curry because of some stat but somehow Conley was in the 20s by the same metric you were using while you said he was better. Just makes no sense. Dell wouldn't still be here if we get Noel do you not get that?

[N.O.Bronco]

Dell simply wouldn't be here if he sat on his hands and waited. He did the same thing anyone else in his position would have done and that was to make that team competitive instantly. He was near fired after making the playoffs what do you think would have happened being a perrenial lottery team. He would have been gone years ago simple as that. I'll take an All Star PG like Jrue over Noel anyway. Jrue made the all star team at the most talented position in the NBA. Noel has done nothing at the weakest position in the NBA. It's easy to look back and say it was a bad trade and that is only because he had a fluke injury. Nowhere did I say Presti was bad I said he was a great with his draft picks. He has made some terrible decisions wether you think it was ownership or not which I don't believe it was. He has had a few good draft picks but has simply failed that team with surrounding them with talent. It's not an easy thing to do but he definitely didn't do a good job at it. never said Presti was bad at all I just don't see that he has done so much more than what Dell has considering what he was given. Completely different situations these guys were put in and for what Dell has done with what he was given has been a damn good job.

This is the first good point you have made in this debate.

There is the debate about whether the model Dell followed was his own model that he convinced ownership of or the model ownership forced him into. Or the third option which is ownership wanted one thing and Dell may have wanted another but neither was the "build through the draft method" most are arguing should of been followed.

Either way the conversation was wether Presti has been much better then Dell or not and the only way to measure that is through the results. Not by excuses.. Anyone can play that game and then nothing is determined.

There rest of your post(Jrue all star, Noel not having done anything - which is BS) has been addressed ad nauseum and talking to you gets nowhere so no need to waste breathe further.

[N.O.Bronco]

Hahaha you have got to be kidding me. He is an elite defensive center already but Jrue wasn't when we got him? Seriously? Your feelings are still hurt that you couldn't justify why Jrue was ahead of Conley and others you posted but behind Curry. Great point you presented there that Jrue wasn't as good as Curry because of some stat but somehow Conley was in the 20s by the same metric you were using while you said he was better. Just makes no sense. Dell wouldn't still be here if we get Noel do you not get that?

Im still waiting on that post where you actually substantiate your assertions in that thread? I gave you plenty. Numerous metrics, from multiple sources, with different formulas and none of them put Jrue ahead last season. I asked you for yours, and well, crickets.

It has been a few days. I guess you are cooking up a real doozy. I'll just be patient, I'm sure it is coming any day now.....

[Primetime]

Dell simply wouldn't be here if he sat on his hands and waited. He did the same thing anyone else in his position would have done and that was to make that team competitive instantly. He was near fired after making the playoffs what do you think would have happened being a perrenial lottery team. He would have been gone years ago simple as that. I'll take an All Star PG like Jrue over Noel anyway. Jrue made the all star team at the most talented position in the NBA. Noel has done nothing at the weakest position in the NBA. It's easy to look back and say it was a bad trade and that is only because he had a fluke injury. Nowhere did I say Presti was bad I said he was a great with his draft picks. He has made some terrible decisions wether you think it was ownership or not which I don't believe it was. He has had a few good draft picks but has simply failed that team with surrounding them with talent. It's not an easy thing to do but he definitely didn't do a good job at it. never said Presti was bad at all I just don't see that he has done so much more than what Dell has considering what he was given. Completely different situations these guys were put in and for what Dell has done with what he was given has been a damn good job.

Dell would easily be here -- we select Nerlens Noel and he wouldn't even be on the hot seat. And the issue with Dell as a GM is the following: the only all-star he has to show is AD and well, everyone would have made that selection. So you can't on the one hand wonder what Presti has done (he's made all-star acquisitions in Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and fringe all-star in Ibaka) and then defend Dell (his lone all-star is AD and no one else has been close to being an all-star).

Dell scares the crap out of me. I don't think any of his major moves have turned out bad, but they haven't turned out great either -- and we have no financial flexibility so I'm not sure this is a good thing. But on a positive note, I think we have some assets who if necessary can be flipped (I'm just scared they have no value to other teams).

[N.O.Bronco]

Dell would easily be here -- we select Nerlens Noel and he wouldn't even be on the hot seat. And the issue with Dell as a GM is the following: the only all-star he has to show is AD and well, everyone would have made that selection. So you can't on the one hand wonder what Presti has done (he's made all-star acquisitions in Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and fringe all-star in Ibaka) and then defend Dell (his lone all-star is AD and no one else has been close to being an all-star).

Dell scares the crap out of me. I don't think any of his major moves have turned out bad, but they haven't turned out great either -- and we have no financial flexibility so I'm not sure this is a good thing. But on a positive note, I think we have some assets who if necessary can be flipped (I'm just scared they have no value to other teams).

Good summary and I echo those feelings.