How much does Asik get paid this summer?

[MichaelMcNamara]

So... This year we were an 8th seed, with expectation now being that we will be a progressively better team over the next few years. Is it safe to say that maybe not next season, but certainly the year after, the expectation is going to be that this team is a championship contender?

So, like I was saying, in two years when AD is making 30% of the cap and Asik is making 12% of the cap, how do you justify it and build a contender, while also replacing Gordon and Anderson at the market rate given the increased cap and expectation for higher salaries?!

Seems like you're setting the team up for a step backwards in 2016. How do you replace Gordon and Anderson with only about 18% of your cap available to you? Especially if a player of Asik's skill level is valued at 10% of your cap. Do you think Dell is going to all of a sudden start getting cost effective value out of the draft in 2016?! Cmon man!

What you're suggesting sounds cool and nice, but actually makes zero sense!

You go to such extremes. You act like it would be devastating, when it can in fact work. Is it likely? Nope. Is any plan? Nope.

Look, we get it. You wouldn't sign Asik. You would go cheap and hope to lure some big fish in 2016 or 2017. Bravo. Great plan.

And it might work for you. But you don't have to make other peoples plans seem ludicrous; like they have ZERO chance of working just to make yours look better in comparison.

Just say you disagree and go on record with the plan of attracting the big fish down the line (Which NOLA has never signed, but that shouldn't stop us from dreaming) and let that be that. Is that so hard to do?

[NMThreeMVP]

You go to such extremes. You act like it would be devastating, when it can in fact work. Is it likely? Nope. Is any plan? Nope.

Look, we get it. You wouldn't sign Asik. You would go cheap and hope to lure some big fish in 2016 or 2017. Bravo. Great plan.

And it might work for you. But you don't have to make other peoples plans seem ludicrous; like they have ZERO chance of working just to make yours look better in comparison.

Just say you disagree and go on record with the plan of attracting the big fish down the line (Which NOLA has never signed, but that shouldn't stop us from dreaming) and let that be that. Is that so hard to do?

When have I said my plan was to attract a big fish?! At most we'll have 29% of our cap available to us in 2016 (I know you like using % of cap, so see, I'm using the "educated" approach). 29% of the cap won't be enough to sign a big fish, but it would be enough to replace or resign Anderson and replace Gordon with a player who consistently does what we hoped he'd do, while filling out the rest of the roster with key role players.

But if someone thinks we can land a big fish, and somehow, a big fish is interested in NOLA, it's easier to get to a position where the math woks if we're not paying Asik $11m or more.

I think when you have a talent like AD, you can't afford to take an approach that you've acknowledged isn't likely to work. And if your plan is no more likely than any other plan to be successful, the reaction you're getting from me is because you consistently put it out there as of your plan is the best option. All I'm doing is poking holes in it that you refuse to address. Instead you get all sensitive. Whatever man. Just tell me what your plan is beyond running it back and signing a player long term that's not a two way player and is very situational and matchup dependent?! I'm just asking to think beyond whatever column you've already written and position you've staked out. And to respond without being sensitive or condescending. But it's cool how you alternate between to the two and then accuse me of being extreme! While you're basically saying NOLA will never attract a big free agent. Ha!

Just want to know the plan, man. Signing Asik and figuring out the rest later because you don't know the future is pisspoor planning. What do we do when we're paying AD and Asik 42% of the cap?!

[billfromfinance]

so NMThreeMVP I don't think I have seen it, but what is your plan? I know you said you wouldn't be all out against resigning Asik (though it limits 2016) but I haven't seen anything else around what you want to do? Who are we getting instead of Asik, at what price, and how?

[MichaelMcNamara]

Just because Jrue and Tyreke are on the books for 2016-17 right now does not mean they have to be. There is always a way to make room if you really want it. Example- let's say we sign Asik for 10 mil per year and now we have 62 million on the books going into 2016 and Durant agrees to sign but we have to clear 6-7 million in space to give him the max - we could easily send Tyreke somewhere for a cheaper player to make that happen. And yes, I would rather have Asik on a team with Jrue, AD, and KD than Tyreke.

Signing Asik doesn't handcuff this team IMO. You are going to have to pay some center between 8-20 percent of the cap. You can't just hope to get by with an ultra cheap guy at that position IMO. If Asik can be had for 9-12 percent of the cap, I think that will be about the best value we can get. And he will improve the more he plays in the system and the more he plays with the same guys. His skills won't improve necessarily, but continuity puts everyone in positions where they are more likely to succeed.

Either way, I understand others not wanting to sign him, but what I don't understand is saying he is worth some arbitrary number as opposed to a percentage of the cap. That is the only way that makes sense IMO- for Asik or any player for that matter

[Mythrol]

I don't understand pretending that signing Asik this summer and signing a big FA next summer are somehow mutually exclusive. Signing Asik is going to have zero impact on it. If Durant says he wants to come here, guess what, we will make the space. . .just like nearly every team does.

[BallSoHard]

I'm honestly not understanding why nm is being so condescending about % of cap. Can someone please explain this ?


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[NMThreeMVP]

I'm honestly not understanding why nm is being so condescending about % of cap. Can someone please explain this ?


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I've been a fan of basketball forever, and on this board and it's predecessor, and I've never heard or read anyone talk about what a free agent should be worth as a percentage of cap. But now, because it fits with the agenda to resign a really limited (and therefor polarizing) player, folks are using it like it's always been the gospel.

I ask how you build a winner while giving Asik and AD 42% of the cap, show what other teams get for that value, and I'm met with silence.

It's condescending because people only want to use it to fit their agenda, without looking at the context of future years, comparables, or opportunity cost. They decided they wanted to resign Asik, and then found the metric.

Someone used David Lee and Iggy as examples. The Pelicans have traded away draft picks and don't have guys on value contracts. If we had a Harrison Barnes, Draymond Green, and Klay Thompson, on rookie deals, maybe we could give 10% of our cap to an Asik, but that's not how the Pelicans are being built. And Asik is not the player Lee or Iggy were when they were given their deals.

[BallSoHard]

I've been a fan of basketball forever, and on this board and it's predecessor, and I've never heard or read anyone talk about what a free agent should be worth as a percentage of cap. But now, because it fits with the agenda to resign a really limited (and therefor polarizing) player, folks are using it like it's always been the gospel.

I ask how you build a winner while giving Asik and AD 42% of the cap, show what other teams get for that value, and I'm met with silence.

It's condescending because people only want to use it to fit their agenda, without looking at the context of future years, comparables, or opportunity cost. They decided they wanted to resign Asik, and then found the metric.

Someone used David Lee and Iggy as examples. The Pelicans have traded away draft picks and don't have guys on value contracts. If we had a Harrison Barnes, Draymond Green, and Klay Thompson, on rookie deals, maybe we could give 10% of our cap to an Asik, but that's not how the Pelicans are being built. And Asik is not the player Lee or Iggy were when they were given their deals.

You haven't heard it before because the cap increase has been minimal. The only reason it's being used as % of cap because there's such a large variance. It's comparing apples to apples, and it doesn't matter how much you undercut the philosophy, it's sound and basic math. No one's using it to 'fit an agenda' it's a simple and fair means of comparison. What agenda do people have on a message board?

Being condescending does nothing for your case. It just shows ignorance.

[NMThreeMVP]

You haven't heard it before because the cap increase has been minimal. The only reason it's being used as % of cap because there's such a large variance. It's comparing apples to apples, and it doesn't matter how much you undercut the philosophy, it's sound and basic math. No one's using it to 'fit an agenda' it's a simple and fair means of comparison. What agenda do people have on a message board?

Being condescending does nothing for your case. It just shows ignorance.

I think you're missing the point, but maybe it's too nuanced. Percentage of cap is fine, whatever, I get it. It's just a number and math, so I'm not explicitly arguing against math.

If you want to use % of cap, though, just like any other number, it has to fit within the context of what other teams have acquired using that percentage of cap, what opportunity is lost by using that % of the cap, and how you structure the rest of the team using that % of the cap.

If I told you were going to pay Asik $48m over 4 years, people have balked at that number because we know what hay type of money is capable for acquiring from a talent standpoint based on the past and he limitations placed on future flexibility of you give a guy that sort of contract. So the cool kids translate it into % of cap, and that number doesn't seem so scary, so people stop demanding they do the market analysis they would if it was presented in dollars.

But as I've shown, in order to give 10% of your cap to a player like Asik, you have to have several value contracts including contributing rookie scale guys and vets paid less than market. Asik fits that model next year, but in 2016 when AD is getting 30% of your cap, you have to replace or resign Anderson and Gordon, and you'll have the expectation of contending... You wouldn't want to be paying Asik 10-12% of your cap.

I'd have no issue giving Asik the reverse of his current contract. I'd give him $14, 7, and 6m with a team option after the end of 1st year and a player option after year 2.

This is my problem with Dell and those that think he's awesome. He has been been in win sooner rather than later mode going back to the Cp3 days, and he hasn't really built this team to sustain success into AD's second contract IMO.

Aldridge got Lillard on a rookie deal and Wes on a cheap contract. Duncan had Manu and Parker on favorable deals earlier in his career and now they're all playing at a discount. Steph has Klay, Barnes, and Draymond on rookie scale. John Wall has Beal on a cheap contract. Who are The Pelicans players contributing to our wins on below market deals?! Who are they going to be in 2017 when AD starts eating cap for breakfast, lunch, and dinner?!

The same people saying not to worry about it because we can move this player or that player down the line, are the same people who out the other side of their mouths are saying continuity is the key to our success and are using that as another reason we should reign Asik.

[NMThreeMVP]

I don't understand pretending that signing Asik this summer and signing a big FA next summer are somehow mutually exclusive. Signing Asik is going to have zero impact on it. If Durant says he wants to come here, guess what, we will make the space. . .just like nearly every team does.

I thought all you guys valued continuity.

[NMThreeMVP]

so NMThreeMVP I don't think I have seen it, but what is your plan? I know you said you wouldn't be all out against resigning Asik (though it limits 2016) but I haven't seen anything else around what you want to do? Who are we getting instead of Asik, at what price, and how?

My plan is to run it back next year, with two replacement level big men that can body up against bigger centers. I just want bodies. Two Witheys would be fine. Continuing to develop Ajinca and AD on their defensive abilities. Play small ball as many minutes as I can with Davis and Anderson.

Or...

Sign Asik to a contract that would be the reverse of his current deal. So start out big at $14m, team option for $7m, player option for $7m. So three years, $28m. Gives us flexibility next season. Gives Asik same dollars over first 2 years. A chance to get a new contract, last payday, right after his 31st birthday.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I thought all you guys valued continuity.

You simplify others points and beat on those. The definition of a Strawman.

Many of is us do value continuity to an extent. Nobody would keep Ryno and Asik if Marc Gasol came available, but if we are taking lateral changes or minor upgrades, continuity is more valuable.

[MichaelMcNamara]

My plan is to run it back next year, with two replacement level big men that can body up against bigger centers. I just want bodies. Two Witheys would be fine. Continuing to develop Ajinca and AD on their defensive abilities. Play small ball as many minutes as I can with Davis and Anderson.

Or...

Sign Asik to a contract that would be the reverse of his current deal. So start out big at $14m, team option for $7m, player option for $7m. So three years, $28m. Gives us flexibility next season. Gives Asik same dollars over first 2 years. A chance to get a new contract, last payday, right after his 31st birthday.

Your idea for an Asik contract shows you do not understand the CBA because that is not even close to legal. But I guess that math and numbers stuff is just for the cool kids.

[NMThreeMVP]

Your idea for an Asik contract shows you do not understand the CBA because that is not even close to legal. But I guess that math and numbers stuff is just for the cool kids.

The fact that it's not legal only means that I can't structure a contract in a way that I'd be willing to resign Asik. But if that's easier for you to address than addressing the larger point of how paying Asik 10-12% of the cap fits into building a contender, by all means...

[MichaelMcNamara]

The fact that it's not legal only means that I can't structure a contract in a way that I'd be willing to resign Asik. But if that's easier for you to address than addressing the larger point of how paying Asik 10-12% of the cap fits into building a contender, by all means...

I'm sorry, but if you are going to come on here and play GM (which we all do a large percentage of the time) and tell other people that they are fools essentially, and you don't even know the basics of the rule book that a GM has to play by, then your opinion holds no weight IMO.

The only reason I was addressing you in previous posts was because I didn't want misinformation to spread. But now that it is clear to everyone that you don't know what you are talking about on this subject, I don't need to do that any more.

Carry on with whatever you want to say. You don't have to worry about me addressing it anymore.

[NMThreeMVP]

You simplify others points and beat on those. The definition of a Strawman.

Many of is us do value continuity to an extent. Nobody would keep Ryno and Asik if Marc Gasol came available, but if we are taking lateral changes or minor upgrades, continuity is more valuable.

HA! My point was simplified on here and I was told I wanted to sign a big fish in 2016 even though that was never my point... but again, if you want to talk about strawmen instead of the larger point of context for a 10-12% of cap salary for Asik... proceed...

And I really appreciate the obvious conclusion that nobody would keep Ryno and Asik if they could get Marc Gasol. Thanks for that. That helps me understand how you believe a contender is constructed when you're paying Asik and AD 42% of your cap and trying to maintain continuity.

Thanks. Sincerely.

[NMThreeMVP]

I'm sorry, but if you are going to come on here and play GM (which we all do a large percentage of the time) and tell other people that they are fools essentially, and you don't even know the basics of the rule book that a GM has to play by, then your opinion holds no weight IMO.

The only reason I was addressing you in previous posts was because I didn't want misinformation to spread. But now that it is clear to everyone that you don't know what you are talking about on this subject, I don't need to do that any more.

Carry on with whatever you want to say. You don't have to worry about me addressing it anymore.

OK... Mr Pelicans will NOT make the playoffs. Glad to know we're required to nail everything on this board accurately in order to participate in the discussion!

I haven't called other folks fools. I've only said paying Asik 10-12% of cap is foolish. There is a difference.

If you don't understand that I was trying to find a way that I would be willing to do something that I don't want to do (sign Asik), and want to use that to cut off debate, that's good stuff. Sounds like you're more interested in winning an argument rather than at any point in this thread addressing the issues I've pointed out with paying Asik 10-12% of the cap, but that's alright.

[BallSoHard]

I think you're missing the point, but maybe it's too nuanced. Percentage of cap is fine, whatever, I get it. It's just a number and math, so I'm not explicitly arguing against math.

If you want to use % of cap, though, just like any other number, it has to fit within the context of what other teams have acquired using that percentage of cap, what opportunity is lost by using that % of the cap, and how you structure the rest of the team using that % of the cap.

If I told you were going to pay Asik $48m over 4 years, people have balked at that number because we know what hay type of money is capable for acquiring from a talent standpoint based on the past and he limitations placed on future flexibility of you give a guy that sort of contract. So the cool kids translate it into % of cap, and that number doesn't seem so scary, so people stop demanding they do the market analysis they would if it was presented in dollars.

But as I've shown, in order to give 10% of your cap to a player like Asik, you have to have several value contracts including contributing rookie scale guys and vets paid less than market. Asik fits that model next year, but in 2016 when AD is getting 30% of your cap, you have to replace or resign Anderson and Gordon, and you'll have the expectation of contending... You wouldn't want to be paying Asik 10-12% of your cap.

I'd have no issue giving Asik the reverse of his current contract. I'd give him $14, 7, and 6m with a team option after the end of 1st year and a player option after year 2.

This is my problem with Dell and those that think he's awesome. He has been been in win sooner rather than later mode going back to the Cp3 days, and he hasn't really built this team to sustain success into AD's second contract IMO.

Aldridge got Lillard on a rookie deal and Wes on a cheap contract. Duncan had Manu and Parker on favorable deals earlier in his career and now they're all playing at a discount. Steph has Klay, Barnes, and Draymond on rookie scale. John Wall has Beal on a cheap contract. Who are The Pelicans players contributing to our wins on below market deals?! Who are they going to be in 2017 when AD starts eating cap for breakfast, lunch, and dinner?!

The same people saying not to worry about it because we can move this player or that player down the line, are the same people who out the other side of their mouths are saying continuity is the key to our success and are using that as another reason we should reign Asik.

No, after reading this; you're continuing to miss the point over and over and if you don't get it by now, you never will.


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[DefensiveMind]

The team will contend and thrive based on what they do with Gordon, Ryno, Tyreke, and possibly Jrue. Bottom line. That's your other 58% and that's the difference. Call Asik AD-Not-having-play-Center Insurance and attribute the whole 42% to keeping AD in a position to succeed. We saw AD next to a replacement level center, Steamer anyone?, and the results matched the nickname. Asik is the beef that keeps AD from having to shoulder all the dirty work. He gives you 10 boards, solid D, and was the 3rd most consistent part of a 45 win team. What's the saying about the devil you know? Yeah, he's totally worth it. You want to improve this team? Help Dell figure out Gordon, Ryno, Reke, and possibly Jrue. That's where the title is...

[BallSoHard]

My plan is to run it back next year, with two replacement level big men that can body up against bigger centers. I just want bodies. Two Witheys would be fine. Continuing to develop Ajinca and AD on their defensive abilities. Play small ball as many minutes as I can with Davis and Anderson.

Or...

Sign Asik to a contract that would be the reverse of his current deal. So start out big at $14m, team option for $7m, player option for $7m. So three years, $28m. Gives us flexibility next season. Gives Asik same dollars over first 2 years. A chance to get a new contract, last payday, right after his 31st birthday.

What the hell?


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[UNO Gracias]

I don't know one thing from the other, but looking over the playoff rosters, how would our front court compare to those remaining?

[Sam Scarborian]

Some additional info:

Athletes pay flat 15 % tax in Asik's native Turkey and also the rate goes down to ridiculous 5 % if any athlete represent the country internationally.

If you think that you can pay 8M to Asik it means that he will get 5.3M after tax which will be equal if he gets 6M a year from Fenerbahce Ulker which not only OA but also Kanter,Pachulia,Ilyasova played before NBA. FB Ulker is one of the finalists of this year's Euroleague (the other teams are Real Madrid, CSKA Moscow and Olympiakos). In Zelyko Obradovic, FB Ulker has the most succesful coach in non-NBA basketball world and OA will be an instant hero there.

Some short-sighted indivudials might mumble that they do not care if he leaves but it is a reality. What confuses me that how folks so confident that OA will sign for NOP. We will see.

[UNO Gracias]

Some additional info:

Athletes pay flat 15 % tax in Asik's native Turkey and also the rate goes down to ridiculous 5 % if any athlete represent the country internationally.

If you think that you can pay 8M to Asik it means that he will get 5.3M after tax which will be equal if he gets 6M a year from Fenerbahce Ulker which not only OA but also Kanter,Pachulia,Ilyasova played before NBA. FB Ulker is one of the finalists of this year's Euroleague (the other teams are Real Madrid, CSKA Moscow and Olympiakos). In Zelyko Obradovic, FB Ulker has the most succesful coach in non-NBA basketball world and OA will be an instant hero there.

Some short-sighted indivudials might mumble that they do not care if he leaves but it is a reality. What confuses me that how folks so confident that OA will sign for NOP. We will see.

All good points. Just to add, players are paid by the location of the game they are playing in. So while Fla., Del., Tx, and a few other states might not have certain taxes, if a player is playing a game in Utah, NY, or AZ, he will be subject to that states tax laws.

But I agree, it takes two to tango, while we might think Asik has to come back here, he doesn't. He could easily bolt, and leave us facing the reality that we will have to roll with Ajinca, and whoever we can scrounge up for $2 and a box of Cracker Jacks.

Oh the offseason, how I don't miss you.

[MonsterMash]

My plan is to run it back next year, with two replacement level big men that can body up against bigger centers. I just want bodies. Two Witheys would be fine. Continuing to develop Ajinca and AD on their defensive abilities. Play small ball as many minutes as I can with Davis and Anderson.

Or...

Sign Asik to a contract that would be the reverse of his current deal. So start out big at $14m, team option for $7m, player option for $7m. So three years, $28m. Gives us flexibility next season. Gives Asik same dollars over first 2 years. A chance to get a new contract, last payday, right after his 31st birthday.

The deal he signed with Houston only spiked in year 3 b/c it was structured to make it unlikely CHI could match. He's a UFA now so he's just gonna get a regular ascending deal.

He's also going to get more than 3 years-28 mil with the anticipation of the cap jumping up next year.

Asik played well this year minus one playoff series. Were they to let him walk because he gets, say 10-12 mil per year, then it illustrates the FO is mismanaging the team. You don't throw a first rounder at someone for a 1-year spike in playoff (not championship) probability.

[NMThreeMVP]

I was wrong. Asik isn't good at basketball (because he can't catch, has no post game, and lacks foot speed on defense), but he's clearly a top 20 center. So give him 3 years $36m and lets cross our fingers and hope he continues to develop as a 29 year old player. Because when I watch Asik play, I go "that's what this team needs", more often than I go "What the F was that?!?"

We can deal with 2016 and beyond later. Seriously, if he's top 20, I admit I was wrong. Let's pay him $36m over 3 or $48m over 4 and see what happens!