We have to move away from this 'no passing, iso Tyreke' style down the stretch, it's horrible to watch.
I'm ok keeping Tyreke if they don't let him go iso down the stretch.
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We have to move away from this 'no passing, iso Tyreke' style down the stretch, it's horrible to watch.
I'm ok keeping Tyreke if they don't let him go iso down the stretch.
I don't understand why it wasnt quickly stamped out after the 29th failure last season.Originally Posted by Impose
I mean, I'm all for iso if he's going to drive but he should never, ever, ever, ever, ever take a ridiculous step back long 2 in that situation ever again.
Why cant Monty just employ it as a team rule? It seems so basic.
Last edited by Perth_Hornet; 04-30-2015 at 10:00 AM.
This is the reason I have a slight deviation from MM about using Evans to close out games.
It isn't because he shouldn't be on the court but because Monty doesn't seem to either know he needs to reign him in or hasn't been able to reign him in. He talks about the ball sticking late in games but hasn't managed to fix it after an entire season.
That game 3 should of been the biggest and loudest indictment of Evans play style late in games but like the 30 or so other instances it was just another drop in the bucket.
So I get to a point where I just feel the only way to improve ball movement is by addition by subtraction. Leave Evans off unless it is a poor interior D he would be going up against in the clutch and have Qpon or Cunningham in instead. People that can be defensive forces and knock down looks that Jrue can create.
Because frankly the closing lineup on paper is kind of a big liability: Jrue, Gordon, Evans, Davis, ryno. Only two of those 5 are two way players and with Evans dribbling out possessions and stagnating offensive flow it is a recipe for disaster against good teams. As we say most recently with GS.
Great article MM , I totally agree TE should come off the bench 6th man role . In most situations I don't like him on the court at the end of the game. I also think that even if JH is hurt and out I wouldn't want Reke at the point , His pace and he really doesn't run the offense very well . I'd feel more comfortable with Cole at point . Once again it all depends on Holiday's health
And what do you do if people don't follow that "team rule"? It's just not that easy.
And what does that say if we are honest? Cole is really not a great facilitator(a great spark plug player that I want to see back) but it has gotten to the point with some fans(me amongst them) that we have so little trust in Evans in late game situations that we think a consensus below average facilitator is a upgrade for offensive flow then Evans.
Because Cole at least plays with pace and won't pound the rock for 75% of the shot clock and then just drive and take a circus shot or attempt a late bailout pass. He will hand it off, pass it off, let other guys take the lead and he can hit jumpers and get on a streak.
Well you typically sit them.
If Pop will sit Duncan, Parker or Manu when they stink it up and someone else is playing well why has Evans been above that punishment?
When we didn't have Cole I understand you are kind of stuck but even with Jrue and now with Cole, we see the same situation pop up and nothing is done to correct it. If the issue is that with the ball in Evans hands late in games and his poor decision-making, you take the ball out of his hands or sit him. Like Game 3. Evans was making poor decision after poor decision from about 6 minutes in the fourth on down. We put Jrue back in at roughly 3:30(should of been earlier). It wasn't til 1:10 or so left that Jrue finally was given a chance to run the offense and that was only because he was the only outlet to carry the ball up the court.
That was inexcusable to me.
Not if they have 2 years and $20MM left on their contract (both more than you have left on yours). Not if they share an agent with your franchise player. This may be news to you, but NBA players frequently do not listen to their coaches. You'd probably be shocked by how often. Monty doesn't have the championship capital/backing of the front office that Pop or Carlisle do. Real life isn't that simple.
Perhaps actually respond to more then the first line of someone's post? Everything you have said either makes Monty look like he can't control the team or is a manufactured excuse of which there is zero evidence that supports it.
Pop can afford to sit them because he knows theyre making the playoffs and he knows his job is safe.
"I don't know if people know — I dislocated my pinkie finger. And [Tyreke] told me, 'You wanna go home or you wanna be here?' I want to be here. And he said, 'All right, then go tape it up and let's play. Let's go. We not stoppin' at no stores. Straight gas. That's what we do, just keep going.'"
http://thebasketbawlblog.com/
Im speaking about performance based benching or getting on their case for screwing up. Not resting for health.
This false narrative that has been concocted to shield Monty from any responsibility for Evans poor clutch play and our rather season long lackluster clutch play is just ridiculous.
As has already been mentioned, yes, at times injury necessitated it and left Monty with no alternatives but that doesn't excuse the times where injury is no longer an excuse. For instance Game 3 or most of the beginning of the season.
I didn't mention injuries once sir. So i'm not sure how to respond to this. My response was, Monty needs to have his best players out there because his job is not safe. He does not have the luxuries as the coach you used as an example. Monty is fighting tooth and nail and putting his second best player on the bench during a clutch situation that may provide a loss means he may not make the playoffs which means he may not have a job. In premise i agree with you, but if my job were on the line, i'd be more worried about talent on the court than teaching a lesson that may or may not be learned by a benching.
Great article.
I was reading some of the comments and I agree with some that pointed out Reke's lack of explosion (most likely due to gaining weight to play SF and battling injury)
IMO if he were to get in better health & shape for next season, logically his off-ball defense & finishing could improve next season.
Also, MM,
What does Tyreke have to do to reach his All Star potential? (aside from tattooing Chinese flag on forehead)
Get put in the right role. I don't expect his skill set to change that much. But it won't have to if he is in the right role.
@mcnamara247
That still doesn't add up. When healthy we saw the same thing, Evans pounding the Rock, making poor decisions and hurting us down the stretch. Monty's response? Allow him to keep pounding the rock, not discipline him for his poor decisions and hurt us in the clutch.
Monty will get fired for not winning. He won't get fired for yelling at Evans, forcing the offense to go through Cole or Jrue or benching Evans if his actions don't start to change. We have heard from Davis and others that Monty is a trust guy, and a suggestive coach not an authoritarian like Pop, Thibs or Carlisle - once in his circle of trust you get a wide berth. For players like Qpon, Cole and Cunningham that were hampered by too many restrictions, that freedom helped them and made the team better for it. With Others like Evans that trust and wide berth and suggestive rather then disciplinarian style seems to be a double edged sword.
To me it Seems fair to conclude that at this point Monty just doesn't see eye to eye with his critics on this issue or that he has been ineffective at correcting it because there have been no changes or consequences to Evans down the stretch even though it has become a regular and expected occurrence more then not. Or possibly, this is what Monty wants the team to do. But given this seems a problem unique to Evans I have a hard time believing that.
There aren't going to be any more chances to investigate this til next season so we will have to wait to see what our late game strategy looks like next season. My hope is that with an offseason to pour over the stats, game tape and coaching advice, Monty will come to the floor with some fresh ideas about how to correct the clutch Evans issue and hopefully we will see a change that helps Evans and the team.
Last edited by N.O.Bronco; 05-01-2015 at 01:55 PM.
It adds up just fine. When healthy we were still fighting for a playoff spot. Monty still fighting for his job.
You're right. Monty will get fired for not winning, and whether we like it or not having Tyreke out there for us most of the time gives us that chance. If you honestly believe he doesn't yell at Evans I'm not sure what to say. Most lessons are learned from experience, not from a shaming. You have to let Evans realize it himself and fail some to learn.
Are you reading OP's article? Evans most certainly is NOT helping us down the clutch stretch of games with his play. If we are going by the numbers Cole should be out there over Evans. His clutch FG% with us is above 53% compared to Evans 32%. Cole has a 68% TS% compared to Evans 40% TS%. Cole's offensive/defensive rating is positive compared to Evans negative rating. Cole has a perfect assist to turnover ratio and has the same assist % so they are both distributing about the same in the clutch.
The stats from this season say our best clutch lineup consists of Davis, Cole, Gordon, Qpon and Asik. That lineup(with obvious substitutions based on gamete performance) is what the numbers say is our best lineup in the clutch. So no, Evans does not give us the best chance based on the numbers and what many people have witnessed all season.
There is a difference between letting a player fail and allowing him to learn and then allowing a player to go 82 games and a playoff series with no consequences for his play and nothing done that has been effective to address the issue.
To me the root is bad coaching with a small excuse allowed for circumstance.
Last edited by N.O.Bronco; 05-01-2015 at 05:59 PM.
If you believe a clutch lineup of Davis cole Gordon qpon and Asik is good for us then I'm not sure what we're talking about. I think stats tell a story without a doubt but they're not the say all be all. At the end of the day you let Evans fail over leaving cole on the floor bc Evans is part of your core and hope he learns. We just have different opinions on how it should be handled.
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Im waiting for an argument that is actually substance based? So far this is a one-sided conversation where I am qualifying myself and you are providing opinion, conjecture and speculation.
You jumped into my conversation that was a discussion about what to do about Evans poor clutch play. I gave my suggestion. You jumped in with an argument that amounted to Monty needs to have his best players out there. And if we are discussing clutch play then it makes sense to discover who are actually are best clutch players? As that is what the discussion is about.
If someone that is considered our core player(i disagree with this personally) is not performing well in the clutch, then that is a red flag. It signals something isn't right. Now we tried the route of just letting it play itself out and that hasn't worked. In 82 games and a playoff series the same problems people identified with Evans in Game 2 were still there in game 3 in the playoffs: iso play, pounding the rock, slow pace, low ball movement, poor shot selection, turnovers, circus shots that lead to easy points the other way, poor overall defense.
If your argument amounts to just continue to do the same thing over and over and expect a new result, well, I'm sure you have heard of the old cliche about insanity? Which is all I have gotten from you in your responses. To which I disagree with how to achieve a change.
If Monty has tried to talk to him and that hasn't worked(which you speculate but we have no proof), which clearly it hasn't, if Monty has tried yelling at him(which you speculate but we have no proof) that too has clearly not worked. So to me when a person is not responding to the current consequences the ante has to be raised. I laid out the way I would handle it(discuss it first, be tough and clear about the problem and what you want to see from him. If he doesnt respond you begin to get on him in game to execute properly. If he doesnt respond you run plays to take the ball away from him and take the ball out of his hands, if he doesnt go along with that you bench him) if you have a different suggestion then lets actually discuss it. If you think Evans isn't performing poor in the clutch, please provide a counter to MM and my points.
I told you the way I felt about it. I'm not getting into another retarded pr battle. I had no counter to mm's points. My only counter was basically a caveat to your point about benching him. That's it which is why I'm repeating myself. You keep trying to draw this argument into something it's not.
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Im just actually trying to get some substance and a clarification on what your argument actually is. You keep making assertions then making new ones when I address them. Never staying still and actually discussing anything. I agree this is getting nowhere.
I remember when Tyreke came into the league, people loved him for his offensive talent, but I remember the Memphis coach saying that Tyreke was actually an elite on ball defender. It's interesting, but with Tyreke being so good on ball and so bad off ball (mainly because all he tries to do is play passing lanes) what do you do? Do you put tyreke on the primary ball handler and not utilize jrue's best asset? Even though jrue is also a good off-ball defender, but are u going to take away jrue's best asset only to help tyreke? I of course ask this question in regards when they are on the floor together.
MM what do u think? With Tyreke and Jrue both on the floor, who do u put to defend the ball handler?
and also, all the guys on here saying tyreke is a ball hog and doesn't pass, lol like the article says, when jrue went down, Tyreke had the best assist % in the NBA, the entire NBA!
Tyreke might do a lot of dumb things, but his positives far out-weigh his negatives IMO.
Like the article says, without Tyreke, we don't sniff the playoffs.
And even if he did suck, i don't care, his toughness is unrivaled. He has heart, i'll take that any day, just like when AD got hurt, tyreke asked AD, "You wanna go home or u wanna win?"
For all the analysis that is done, I just want to see a healthy pelicans team in its current version for an extended period. We were able to make the playoffs without jrue, Anderson and with a still hurting Gordon. If they can all get healthy and in great spirits and we can increase the screen play with Gordon to try to make him shine like a warrior, we might be able to pull off a spurs like season. No great.teams have.key players.that are hurting.
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